Brad Treliving Trade History

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hamilton had zero reputation issues and Peters quit Carolina to come to Calgary - he didn’t get fired. In fact, IIRC, he had the option which they would have taken.

Carolina got better significantly after peters

Fire or not they didn’t want him

[Aarongavey]

A

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’ve already said he should be fired - I don’t know how much more accountable you want me to make him.

What I’m saying is that I’m not sure what moves people expected when his core, other than Tkachuk and Lindholm, were put there before. I guess people are arguing he needed to trade Monahan and Gaudreau three years ago. Can you imagine the outcry? Hell, people argued he was way to cheap when signing Gaudreau and it cost the team a couple years of contract.

His core is missing Barzal because he traded that pick away. His core is missing Farabee because he traded that pick away. There are many elite teams that have not picked in the top 3 or 4 on the draft in the past 10 years. Other teams accumulate enough assets to become good. Brad dodged that bullet.

[dino7c]

Fox wouldn't sign anywhere but NY...how can you possibly fault they Flames for trading him. If anything the should get credit for drafting him.

[stone hands]

Itt:

A bunch of people who dont understand why millionaires in their mid 20s would rather live in New York city or Las Vegas than calgary and are mad at the gm for it

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Carolina got better significantly after peters

Fire or not they didn’t want him

Except they did want him. They weren’t happy he opted out.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

A

His core is missing Barzal because he traded that pick away. His core is missing Farabee because he traded that pick away. There are many elite teams that have not picked in the top 3 or 4 on the draft in the past 10 years. Other teams accumulate enough assets to become good. Brad dodged that bullet.

LOL, we’re playing the “they would have/should have drafted X” game are we? Then subtract Tkachuk, and add Puljujarvi. And Barzal should have gone higher than Calgary’s pick (which wasn’t used to pick him - it was used on Zachary Zenyshyn).

You’d also be missing Hamilton and then Lindholm and Hanifin. You’d have Ferland (no longer playing) and Fox who wouldn’t have signed.

[united]

What a fascinating conservation it would be if Treliving's Flames were compared directly to the Hurricanes' group financially and he was tasked with describing what happened and how to fix it.


"Brad, over the past five seasons we have spent $54 million dollars more than the Hurricanes have which has resulted in us earning 5 more regular season points than they have - or put another way we have paid $21.5 million per incremental win. And that is just player spend. Our Hockey Operations budget is larger than theirs is as well.

In terms of playoffs, neither of our teams have had much success: we hold a 3-2 edge in qualification but they have a 2-0 edge in series wins. However, to repeat, their owner has $54 million in his pocket for what is for all intents and purposes the same level of performance.

Looking at this season so far, the Hurricanes have really opened their wallet recognizing they have a legitimate chance at being a contender, however they still don't have the financial power we wield as they are still projected to spend $2 million less than we are. What is concerning is their financial commitment this season has them on pace to finish 30 points ahead of us (43 in a full season) and they are nearly a lock to qualify for the playoffs while our qualification chances are rapidly diminishing.

Why is it that when we outspend the Hurricanes by $10 million per season we perform at the level they do, while when our respective spends are similar they are miles ahead of us? How do we become financially competent and get ourselves out of this hole?"

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by united

What a fascinating conservation it would be if Treliving's Flames were compared directly to the Hurricanes' group financially and he was tasked with describing what happened and how to fix it.


"Brad, over the past five seasons we have spent $54 million dollars more than the Hurricanes have which has resulted in us earning 5 more regular season points than they have - or put another way we have paid $21.5 million per incremental win. And that is just player spend. Our Hockey Operations budget is larger than theirs is as well.

In terms of playoffs, neither of our teams have had much success: we hold a 3-2 edge in qualification but they have a 2-0 edge in series wins. However, to repeat, their owner has $54 million in his pocket for what is for all intents and purposes the same level of performance.

Looking at this season so far, the Hurricanes have really opened their wallet recognizing they have a legitimate chance at being a contender, however they still don't have the financial power we wield as they are still projected to spend $2 million less than we are. What is concerning is their financial commitment this season has them on pace to finish 30 points ahead of us (43 in a full season) and they are nearly a lock to qualify for the playoffs while our qualification chances are rapidly diminishing.

Why is it that when we outspend the Hurricanes by $10 million per season we perform at the level they do, while when our respective spends are similar they are miles ahead of us? How do we become financially competent and get ourselves out of this hole?"

So maybe you can explain how it happened.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

LOL, we’re playing the “they would have/should have drafted X” game are we? Then subtract Tkachuk, and add Puljujarvi. And Barzal should have gone higher than Calgary’s pick (which wasn’t used to pick him - it was used on Zachary Zenyshyn).

You’d also be missing Hamilton and then Lindholm and Hanifin. You’d have Ferland (no longer playing) and Fox who wouldn’t have signed.

What a ridiculous assumption, if Fox could not be packaged with Hamilton he could not be traded.

I was merely responding to your assertion that he had no assets to trade. He traded those assets. He spotted a #4 dman in Hamonic and backed up the brinks truck. My assertion was that he needlessly and without a plan traded away picks when the team was nowhere close to being competitive. He almost never identified ways to accumulate assets, just traded the assets that each team starts the season with.

There are folks on this board that think you have to pick high to be competitive. There are a number of elite teams in the NHL who prove that to be a fallacy. Brad could have had assets by not making those trades and trading other high picks on a bubble team.

The collective body of work by Brad is bad. Good teams accumulate assets. Teams like Brad’s do not. The Carolina Hurricanes have a 13th overall pick for eating 6.25 million in cap space for one year. Brad used more money to clean up on aisle 3 for the Neal signing and to buyout Brouwer and Stone. Brad took over a team that had the 17th most points in the NHL over the 7 seasons before he came. He will (god willing) leave a team at the end of this year after 7 seasons that had the 19th or 20th most points in the NHL over his tenure. He alleged inherited a team that had no assets, he leaves a team that certainly does not have any blue chip prospects the likes of Gaudreau and Monahan, who were both unable to legally drink in the USA when he took over.

But the writing is on the wall (hopefully). Even longtime supporters of Brad’s now are basically saying “he did everything he could, he has a great body of work, it was impossible for him to improve the team, nobody can do that without top 3 picks, teams just cannot accumulate assets over 7 years, etc. But Brad is probably gone but he will be picked up by someone, he built a team that was in the top 20 in the NHL during his tenure.”

[GioforPM]

^^ Fox wasn’t signing in Calgary. Period.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

^^ Fox wasn’t signing in Calgary. Period.

Ya he was traded by another team for two second round picks. Your post assumes that Brad would not be able to do that. I believe Brad would have traded him if we did not have Hamilton, likely for less than 2 second round picks, but traded him nonetheless.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I honestly do not think he will be fired in the off season

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Ya he was traded by another team for two second round picks. Your post assumes that Brad would not be able to do that. I believe Brad would have traded him if we did not have Hamilton, likely for less than 2 second round picks, but traded him nonetheless.

LOL. No, my post assumes nothing of the kind.

But so what? He traded him, with Hamilton and Ferland for Lindholm and Hanifin. So he got something.

[Strange Brew]

What is the story behind Fox only wanting to play for NYR? Was it some guarantee of a starting position or what?

Has there ever been any reputable reporting on that?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

What a ridiculous assumption, if Fox could not be packaged with Hamilton he could not be traded.

I was merely responding to your assertion that he had no assets to trade. He traded those assets. He spotted a #4 dman in Hamonic and backed up the brinks truck. My assertion was that he needlessly and without a plan traded away picks when the team was nowhere close to being competitive. He almost never identified ways to accumulate assets, just traded the assets that each team starts the season with.

There are folks on this board that think you have to pick high to be competitive. There are a number of elite teams in the NHL who prove that to be a fallacy. Brad could have had assets by not making those trades and trading other high picks on a bubble team.

The collective body of work by Brad is bad. Good teams accumulate assets. Teams like Brad’s do not. The Carolina Hurricanes have a 13th overall pick for eating 6.25 million in cap space for one year. Brad used more money to clean up on aisle 3 for the Neal signing and to buyout Brouwer and Stone. Brad took over a team that had the 17th most points in the NHL over the 7 seasons before he came. He will (god willing) leave a team at the end of this year after 7 seasons that had the 19th or 20th most points in the NHL over his tenure. He alleged inherited a team that had no assets, he leaves a team that certainly does not have any blue chip prospects the likes of Gaudreau and Monahan, who were both unable to legally drink in the USA when he took over.

But the writing is on the wall (hopefully). Even longtime supporters of Brad’s now are basically saying “he did everything he could, he has a great body of work, it was impossible for him to improve the team, nobody can do that without top 3 picks, teams just cannot accumulate assets over 7 years, etc. But Brad is probably gone but he will be picked up by someone, he built a team that was in the top 20 in the NHL during his tenure.”

Treliving took over a team that was very mediocre. My point, which you missed, is that there was no trade for a number one centre possible. There was no trade that would have created a better top line this year. He made the only trade that ever improved the top line, and it was still not great.

Or maybe you know of a trade that he could have made.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I honestly do not think he will be fired in the off season

That would be a shame. The Flames by the end of this year will likely have the 20th most points of all the teams in the NHL over the 7 years that he was here. They had the 17th most in the 7 seasons before he came. Brad inherited a 20 year old center who averaged 30 goals and 36 assists for 66 points per 82 game season in his first 6 years under Brad. He inherited a 20 year old winger who averaged 27 goals and 52 assists for 79 points for every 82 games player in his first 6 years under Brad. This organization has no assets like that now. He somehow built a team to win now that did worse compared to their peers over his 7 regular seasons than the Flames did in the 7 seasons before he came and he has left an organization without any identifiable young up and coming players the caliber of that which he inherited.

[GioforPM]

^^ You say he inherited these assets that he doesn’t have now. You are talking about guys that are still on the team. You are saying Brad Treliving ruined them? OK.

Or are you saying he shouldn’t have signed them to very good contracts.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

What is the story behind Fox only wanting to play for NYR? Was it some guarantee of a starting position or what?

Has there ever been any reputable reporting on that?

It was heavily speculated as time went on.

Larry Brooks linked the Rangers to Fox when he was still Flames property.

Reports came out that Fox's agent told Treliving he wouldn't sign with us, and there were further reports he was going to free agency regardless of what team he was traded to.

After the trade with Carolina, Eric Francis said he "would make a heavy wager than Adam Fox will never play for Carolina & he wants to play for the Rangers or Isles."

[chedder]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

^^ You say he inherited these assets that he doesn’t have now. You are talking about guys that are still on the team. You are saying Brad Treliving ruined them? OK.

Or are you saying he shouldn’t have signed them to very good contracts.

I don't think he's saying Brad ruined them. He's saying that there are no young players to take over their points production (which isn't being produced by said players anymore either) Johnny and Monahan are nowhere near the assets that they were 5 plus years ago. I'd say they were playing above their contracts for part and now below. Overall fair value.

[flames_fan_down_under]

I think he’s saying he inherited a pretty ideal situation and has produced extremely middling results has gone through three horrible coaches, multiple goalies, bad free agent signings, poor drafting, traded away multiple draft picks, a bad pool of prospects, spent to the cap, and the team is worse off now than it was when he came on board.