Blow it up!

[1_Flames_Fan]

Saw a legit article today that put Tanev in top 5 for Norris consideration at this time. At #5 and they said, unlikely to get any higher because of lack of offense in his game but pretty good nonetheless. Blowing it up should definitely not include Tanev unless it's a huge overpay.

[Harry Lime]

This looks like the right place for crazytown posts.

Johnny Gaudreau to Philly for Jacob Vorocek (salary balanced) and Morgan Frost
Elias Lindholm and Matt Tkachuk to Buffalo for Jack Eichel and Casey Middelstadt
Sam Bennett to Florida for Aleksi Saarela and 2021 2nd

2022 Calgary Flames

Andrew Mangiapane - Jack Eichel - Dillon Dube
Jacob Pelletier - Sean Monahan - Jacob Voracek
Morgan Frost - Micheal Backlund - Aleksi Saarela
Milan Lucic - Adam Ruzicka - Casey Middelstadt

Noah Hanafin - Chris Tanev
Jussi Valimaki - Rasmus Anderson
Mark Giordano - Oliver Kylington

Jacob Markstrom
Artyom Zagidulin

[GG51]

Originally Posted by Azhouse

I’m with moving Gio as well. His best days are WAY behind him.

Is it possible? If is, might as well move Lucic

[Lanny_McDonald]

Giordano isn't moveable until the trade deadline next year. No one is going to take him with the last year of his contract due. Calgary will have to eat the majority of that final year and then possibly retain to make a deal. Get used to the captain being around for another calendar year.

[Azhouse]

My prediction is that rumours will be Treliving is in on everything but will accomplish absolutely nothing as per every offseason of yore

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by pikester

Also fair points regarding drafting. Drafting well is only part of the equation though, having the proper coaching staff that can bring those pieces into the fold & help them add to the identity of the team to succeed might actually be more important than the induvidual getting drafted. As we know all too well, that identity factor went MIA after Sutter's last departure which is exactly what Treliving was brought in to rectify. Yet here we are 7 years later still wondering what this teams identity is supposed to be. Moves that couldn't be made for whatever reasons can't really be a factor because they are a given for any GM in the league. There would be very few GM's fired if they were all given free passes for faiure to accomplish moves based on obstacles.

Bringing it back to the topic at hand "blow it up": this is not the time to blow it up IMO.

To me, the concept of blowing it up is based on the top 6 mix and more specifically their lack of ability to thrive when checking gets tight. That leads back to the conversation of whether we have a good enough top 6 to win it all. Daryl is part of the answer to fix that IMO and his track record shows that he can take teams without generational elite talents and make finals. I give him the chance to do that with the remaining years of his contract. If he can't get it done... that is the time to blow it up.

Having said that, I absolutely think a re-tool of the top 6 would benefit the cause, and if there is a deal out there to improve the top 6, you make that trade/signing. The caveat for me is that we have to get the better forward back in the deal and you have to consider the expansion draft implications. If you can't get the better player, you don't make the trade or you've just put yourself into re-build mode.

Ask yourself honestly, how many of those deals do you really think are out there? IMO, the answer is zero or we would have made a deal. I think the idea of holding Treliving accountable for not making trades that don't exist (as many have) isn't a reflection of Treliving's performance.

[Macho0978]

Last nights are out of town scoreboard was good to the flames. A loss tonight could put us at 6th worst point percent in the league. I’m not suggesting 1 top 6 or 7 pick fixes things but it does help and it’s right there for us to get. Even without major trades we could slip to top 5. At minimum I’d like to see the following trades

Ryan
Bennett
Nestorov
Rittich

Even if we get a bunch of 3rds and 4ths these guys out could drive us down to a top 5 or 6 pick. If we retain salary might get a bit more for Bennett

We could also call up phillips and ruzicka to finish out the year. This has to be the minimum that gets done or I just don’t see treliving doing what it takes to fix this team

[powderjunkie]

1. Ownership
2. Markstrom - unless he requests a trade, he'll keep us just good enough to pick outside the top 5
3. Sutter
4. New arena
5. Could be a couple of weird drafts to come. We should hoard picks, but it might be okay if they are a bit lower.
6. Tough environment to sell

A blow up isn't happening, at least not for a few years. Move out Gaudreau ASAP (practical based on contract), and Gio if possible. UFAs for as many picks as possible.

[chedder]

I'm on team retool as I don't think they'll go scorched earth ever as an organization.

But I'm also on team tank for this year. Nothing to gain from squeaking into the playoffs (and I don't think there's a chance they do anyway). A first round pick in the teens seems to not help much. There are no fans in the stands etc.

Therefore, even though it's a supposed weak draft getting the best centre available couldn't hurt.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by chedder

I'm on team retool as I don't think they'll go scorched earth ever as an organization.

But I'm also on team tank for this year. Nothing to gain from squeaking into the playoffs (and I don't think there's a chance they do anyway). A first round pick in the teens seems to not help much. There are no fans in the stands etc.

Therefore, even though it's a supposed weak draft getting the best centre available couldn't hurt.

This league is very tight and you just never know. Players have bad years teams have chemistry issues or injuries we aren’t aware of that can lead to a bad season. I look at Florida who signed bobrovsky and they looked good on paper and they missed the playoffs. They move on from Hoffman trochek and dadonov and appear to be a team that is in a bit of a retool and now they are top 8 in the nhl and looking to be a threat. Cap space and a good team that might be set up to buy and make a run.

Sell this year at minimum and fix cap in off season by moving Johnny and Gio and then move forward. Hopefully get a top 5 pick this year and a bunch of mid picks and see how it goes. If it doesn’t go well then sell again next deadline. Why do it all in one summer when it really isn’t that hard to be bottom 5 in this league

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

This league is very tight and you just never know. Players have bad years teams have chemistry issues or injuries we aren’t aware of that can lead to a bad season. I look at Florida who signed bobrovsky and they looked good on paper and they missed the playoffs. They move on from Hoffman trochek and dadonov and appear to be a team that is in a bit of a retool and now they are top 8 in the nhl and looking to be a threat. Cap space and a good team that might be set up to buy and make a run.

Sell this year at minimum and fix cap in off season by moving Johnny and Gio and then move forward. Hopefully get a top 5 pick this year and a bunch of mid picks and see how it goes. If it doesn’t go well then sell again next deadline. Why do it all in one summer when it really isn’t that hard to be bottom 5 in this league

Florida has an elite number 1 Dman in his prime and an elite number 1 center in his prime.

Those are two things the Flames do not have. Basically the two most important pieces.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Whether Treliving/Ownership like it or not this team is forcing their hand into a rebuild. The writing is on the wall.

Treliving built a cap team that is unintentionally tanking so he knows he has to make some pretty significant moves, especially if he wants to maximize the value of his assets. Currently he has two decent assets, on a very bad team, in Monahan and Gaudreau with expiring contracts, along with their team captain who also has an expiring contract. At the very least two of those three pieces will be dealt in the next two seasons.

Gaudreau should be dealt this season, and soon, because his contract is such good value and he's our most talented player. This should accelerate the teams race to the bottom of the standing as well which can only be a good thing for the future of this franchise. The return on Gaudreau should be significant, a top prospect, a good roster player and a high pick.

Monahan should fetch a first round pick. Though his current status as playing injured doesn't help that situation, might be wise to hold onto him, let him get healthy and hopefully put up some better numbers next season and he can be dealt at the trade deadline.

Our upcoming UFAs should likely all return a handful of mid to late round picks as well. Bennett should be dealt this season as well, hopefully he can net a 2nd round pick.

Hopefully some of these futures can be spread out over this year and next years draft, though I imagine 2022 draft picks might be more highly coveted due to GMs anticipating a bit more certainty in their scouting.

I know there are arbitrary lines between what a "re-tool" is and what a "rebuild" is but either way this team is moving towards a dramatic roster turnover.

I guess if we wanted a full scale "rebuild" Tkachuk would be another significant piece to be moved out. He could return a kings ransom of futures, in my opinion.

Personally I want to see every single piece of this core moved out as the core is clearly rotten with this team, but I don't see that actually happening.

[Stanley]

Don't worry, Tre works the phones relentlessly, it's only a matter of time until we learn we were almost in on a trade...

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by chedder

I'm on team retool as I don't think they'll go scorched earth ever as an organization.

But I'm also on team tank for this year. Nothing to gain from squeaking into the playoffs (and I don't think there's a chance they do anyway). A first round pick in the teens seems to not help much. There are no fans in the stands etc.

Therefore, even though it's a supposed weak draft getting the best centre available couldn't hurt.

Retooling might be ok if this division wasn’t so stacked at the top. The Flames will never surpass the Avalanche or the Knights. The Jets are such a well run organization and draft so well that they’ll always be competitive and the Oilers looked to have finally turned the corner. If the Flames are not part of the top 4 of the West, then what’s the point? They’ll be first round fodder forever.

Just pivot, rebuild now and hopefully by the time the next core is ready, the current elites will have peaked and we’ll be the top of the division rather then somewhere in the middle. We as a fanbase have to collectively raise our standards and stop accepting mediocrity. Winning a first round playoff series isn’t a Stanley Cup and that seems to be the closest thing this group of players will get us.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

I guess if we wanted a full scale "rebuild" Tkachuk would be another significant piece to be moved out. He could return a kings ransom of futures, in my opinion.

don't you think his contract decreases his value, though?
one year at 9M, and then having to qualify that?

If he had 3 years or more left at the 7M cap hit, I would agree with you.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

don't you think his contract decreases his value, though?
one year at 9M, and then having to qualify that?

If he had 3 years or more left at the 7M cap hit, I would agree with you.

Tkachuk is young enough with enough team control that he would have more trade value than any other Flame.

I think he’s getting bogged down by the rest of his team, of which he is partly responsible.

In the right situation, I think Tkachuk could be a dominant player.

In the right situation, I think Johnny could be an excellent complimentary player. His contract shortness will affect his trade value, especially considering his decreased production and questions about his compete level.

I think Monny needs to get healthy to have any significant trade value.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

don't you think his contract decreases his value, though?
one year at 9M, and then having to qualify that?

If he had 3 years or more left at the 7M cap hit, I would agree with you.

Great point I had not accounted for that in my post. That definitely puts the flames in a bind. Hold onto him, give him his QO, and hope he can bounce back into the player we hoped he could be, or he continues his pedestrian play or Trade him at his lowest value.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Florida has an elite number 1 Dman in his prime and an elite number 1 center in his prime.

Those are two things the Flames do not have. Basically the two most important pieces.

I agree they do but after their top 3 players their roster looks weak.

Ekblad also was rumoured a few years ago as possibly being available and lots of poster on here didn’t want that contract. Quite often players are in and out of elite status. I agree he should be though.

Maybe their won’t be an elite player this draft but if we are positioned in the top 6 there is a lottery. Why commit full rebuild if we land a top pick this draft? See how it goes and decide in the summer. Then makes a few moves and re-evaluate next season. Just don’t see why we would trade everyone in a 4 month stretch. Not enough teams with cap space to do it all at once IMO

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Retooling might be ok if this division wasn’t so stacked at the top. The Flames will never surpass the Avalanche or the Knights. The Jets are such a well run organization and draft so well that they’ll always be competitive and the Oilers looked to have finally turned the corner. If the Flames are not part of the top 4 of the West, then what’s the point? They’ll be first round fodder forever.

Just pivot, rebuild now and hopefully by the time the next core is ready, the current elites will have peaked and we’ll be the top of the division rather then somewhere in the middle. We as a fanbase have to collectively raise our standards and stop accepting mediocrity. Winning a first round playoff series isn’t a Stanley Cup and that seems to be the closest thing this group of players will get us.

When things get back to normal our division will be weak:
VGK = legit
SEA = ?
EDM = meh
LAK = on their way up
VAN = TBD
SJ = could still have a run or two, but not exactly scary
ANA = years away

One real team, and 7 pretenders.

Get to the conf. finals and anything can happen from there.

"Get in and anything can happen" might actually be true for a couple years. But it's still a terrible plan.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

When things get back to normal our division will be weak:
VGK = legit
SEA = ?
EDM = meh
LAK = on their way up
VAN = TBD
SJ = could still have a run or two, but not exactly scary
ANA = years away

One real team, and 7 pretenders.

Get to the conf. finals and anything can happen from there.

"Get in and anything can happen" might actually be true for a couple years. But it's still a terrible plan.

I agree not sure how anyone could argue the pacific is a strong division. East has been better than the west for a few years and only Vegas could be labelled a top 8 team in the league. Oilers might get there but still not there IMO

Vegas also is great but I see potential for that not to last too. Lehner seems to be injury primed and fleury is getting old. I like stone but still struggle to think patches is this good. He was considered garbage in Montreal (another player on a bad team that magically is unreal on a good team). Pietrangelo is that young anymore either. They obviously are good and can stay good but it’s not a lock they are stacked for the next 3 years