Brad Treliving Trade History

[Red]

Originally Posted by AC

Or, as Stone has said multiple times since, he was only interested in signing with Vegas.

Is there an example of an NHL player that after signing with a team said, "i didn't care where I signed, as long as I got the contract I wanted"? Maybe a PTO guy, but not a star.

Players say what people want to hear. I would like to know what he said before he signed that deal, not after.
And he could not have known that Vegas was going to trade for him. Someone may have outbid them.

[AC]

I believe the last time this argument came up, some here were saying that Stone and Vegas didn't even negotiate prior to the trade going through. Even though minutes after the trade call happened they had a complicated long-term deal agreement in place.

Well again, Stone was just on Spittin' Chiclets and confirmed that an extension was required for the trade to go through (like it would have been with Calgary).

Sure, we can pretend that Stone saying he only wanted to sign with Vegas is lip service... but it's also very possibly the truth. Vegas is clearly a great place to play, the team looked stacked for the future, and Stone's junior coach who he loved is part of the management.

Arguing that Treliving simply blew it requires multiple levels of backwards logic given how the situation played out and what was said before/during/after by league sources, the teams involved, and the player himself. I think it's safe to take the situation at face value here. There are plenty of other reasons to be frustrated with Treliving.

[Red]

They negotiated right before the deadline. It was mentioned in one of the articles GioforPM posted.

So it's possible that once the numbers were touched on by Flames and Stone, one of them didn't want to continue. Wasn't a match.
Vegas gave him a very generous deal and money talks.

Now, did Tre blow it? Maybe, maybe not. But I am not willing to just give him a pass here. It's a Treliving trend to get close and get snuffed out.

[Squirrel]

Maybe Tre is just the guy a player can string along and use as leverage when negotiating to go to a different team.
where does Calgary rank in the league as a desirable place to play?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Red

Is there an example of an NHL player that after signing with a team said, "i didn't care where I signed, as long as I got the contract I wanted"? Maybe a PTO guy, but not a star.

Players say what people want to hear. I would like to know what he said before he signed that deal, not after.
And he could not have known that Vegas was going to trade for him. Someone may have outbid them.

This is true. You can’t take as gospel what a player says about the team they signed with.

I don’t know if it was possible that Stone would have signed an extension here.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Squirrel

Maybe Tre is just the guy a player can string along and use as leverage when negotiating to go to a different team.
where does Calgary rank in the league as a desirable place to play?

Probably near the bottom. And getting worse by the day I imagine.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

This is true. You can’t take as gospel what a player says about the team they signed with.

I don’t know if it was possible that Stone would have signed an extension here.

Except it’s just not Stone saying that. It was reported in other places, and from other sides of the discussion. And it makes total sense.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

Well ya, of course an extension was crucial. It was as crucial for Vegas. It's why they needed that assurance before making the deal.
Is it not possible that Treliving had some preliminary talks about what $$$ Stone was looking for and decided not to pursue? Is it possible that Tre mad an offer that Stone didn't care for and ended the deal?

Vegas made an aggressive move and got it done. Treliving didn't. Why? Too expensive a price to trade for? Too much money to sign him? Combination of both?

Stone just wouldn’t commit to any discussions with Calgary. Whereas he agreed to Vegas terms.

And if he had, you’re looking at $11M+ per year (and then you are still only just getting to Vegas money, without even considering Vegas’ other attractions).

So Treliving was in on the trade until he found out he couldn’t do what he wanted to do, and then he was out. I fail to see how that’s some mark against him.

[VladtheImpaler]

Of all the things to hang on Treliving, the Stone non-trade is not it. Just move on already. And I already "voted" that he should be fired, so not making excuses.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Stone just wouldn’t commit to any discussions with Calgary. Whereas he agreed to Vegas terms.

And if he had, you’re looking at $11M+ per year (and then you are still only just getting to Vegas money, without even considering Vegas’ other attractions).

So Treliving was in on the trade until he found out he couldn’t do what he wanted to do, and then he was out. I fail to see how that’s some mark against him.

The one thing that will always intrigue me about this whole situation was Dave Maloney on the morning of the deadline. He said they went to bed believing they had a trade done, but then it was gone in the morning.

I wonder what that deal was. It was believed to be Stone at the time, but none of that was ever confirmed of course.

[1qqaaz]

I didn't know that Stone was unlikely to sign in Calgary at a reasonable amount. If that's the case, I don't consider it a failure by Treliving.
Rather, I just hate the Vegas Golden Knights even more.

I still don't how he wasted picks on Gustafsson and Forbort when the team was obviously not a contender. Giving a 3rd round pick for a player who is now frequently a healthy scratch (Gustafsson) seems like a stretch. And I thought Gustafsson was much better than Forbort.
He should have learned his lesson from the Fantenberg trade.

The Flames have a long history of doing moves like this.
Feaster's first trade was the acquisition of Modin for a 7th round pick (2011).
That 7th round pick is now Colin Blackwell who has 10 points in 22 games for the Rangers.
These late picks can add up. Some of them end up being players.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I didn't know that Stone was unlikely to sign in Calgary at a reasonable amount. If that's the case, I don't consider it a failure by Treliving.
Rather, I just hate the Vegas Golden Knights even more.

I still don't how he wasted picks on Gustafsson and Forbort when the team was obviously not a contender. Giving a 3rd round pick for a player who is now frequently a healthy scratch (Gustafsson) seems like a stretch. And I thought Gustafsson was much better than Forbort.
He should have learned his lesson from the Fantenberg trade.

The Flames have a long history of doing moves like this.
Feaster's first trade was the acquisition of Modin for a 7th round pick (2011).
That 7th round pick is now Colin Blackwell who has 10 points in 22 games for the Rangers.
These late picks can add up. Some of them end up being players.

I bet if you look at the boards going into the play-ins a lot of people considered the Flames to have a decent shot. And then they handled the Jets and were a few seconds from a stranglehold in the Dallas series. Dallas, who went on to get to the finals.

I think those trades weren’t pure rentals anyway. They were more “let’s see how you fit in and we might extend you”.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Most of the losses are pretty minor or inconsequential;

BUT

The Hamonic and Lazar deals aren't just bad. They're absolutely terrible.

I’d argue Elliott in some ways too.

Trading a second for a goalie that played one season here and cost us a playoff series is bad.

It’s even worse when you consider that the second turned into Jordan Kyrou

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The one thing that will always intrigue me about this whole situation was Dave Maloney on the morning of the deadline. He said they went to bed believing they had a trade done, but then it was gone in the morning.

I wonder what that deal was. It was believed to be Stone at the time, but none of that was ever confirmed of course.

I still think they had that trade made, based on the rumors from that night before that it was done and then Maloney’s comments the next day.

My guess is one of two things happened.

1) Once they were able to negotiate with Stone they realized they couldn’t give him the contract he was asking for.

2) There were rumors Melnyk didn’t want to make the trade with another Canadian team because then they’d hear more about Stone in the media in future years

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I still think they had that trade made, based on the rumors from that night before that it was done and then Maloney’s comments the next day.

My guess is one of two things happened.

1) Once they were able to negotiate with Stone they realized they couldn’t give him the contract he was asking for.

2) There were rumors Melnyk didn’t want to make the trade with another Canadian team because then they’d hear more about Stone in the media in future years

The stories I posted have just a little different quote from Maloney, and it makes it pretty clear they called it quits Sunday night.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Of all the things to hang on Treliving, the Stone non-trade is not it. Just move on already. And I already "voted" that he should be fired, so not making excuses.

Yep having a hard time understanding people who are so definitive on what happened. Water under the bridge, the GM can be evaluated based on the team that he has built.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I bet if you look at the boards going into the play-ins a lot of people considered the Flames to have a decent shot. And then they handled the Jets and were a few seconds from a stranglehold in the Dallas series. Dallas, who went on to get to the finals.

I think those trades weren’t pure rentals anyway. They were more “let’s see how you fit in and we might extend you”.

And they didn’t fit in because they weren’t very good NHL players. Flames fortunate to have won 2 games in that Dallas series.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I’d argue Elliott in some ways too.

Trading a second for a goalie that played one season here and cost us a playoff series is bad.

It’s even worse when you consider that the second turned into Jordan Kyrou

The Elliott trade was insane so early in the rebuild coming off a bad year in which your highest pick was #53.

1 year of solid goaltending from a 31 yo pending UFA for a #35 pick? Brutal.

Especially considering we were able to sign 30 yo Chad Johnson a week later, coming off a 45 gp .920 2.36 season for the friggin Sabres.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I still think they had that trade made, based on the rumors from that night before that it was done and then Maloney’s comments the next day.



My guess is one of two things happened.



1) Once they were able to negotiate with Stone they realized they couldn’t give him the contract he was asking for.



2) There were rumors Melnyk didn’t want to make the trade with another Canadian team because then they’d hear more about Stone in the media in future years

So from this one and the Khadri non trade it seems Brad is ok at dealing with the other gm but not so good at gauging the player interest in coming to Calgary.

I don't get it. How can you say you had a deal except the player with the ntc said no? That's not a deal. Or in Stone's case that the player didn't want to sign a long term deal here over Vegas. Oh we totally could have signed Stone except he didn't want to play here and has the final say.

I'm sick of all these swing and a miss moves.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

The Elliott trade was insane so early in the rebuild coming off a bad year in which your highest pick was #53.

1 year of solid goaltending from a 31 yo pending UFA for a #35 pick? Brutal.

Especially considering we were able to sign 30 yo Chad Johnson a week later, coming off a 45 gp .920 2.36 season for the friggin Sabres.

Just took a look at who was available as UFA:

Reimer 28 (5x3.4 FLA)
Gustavsson 31
Montoya 31
Zatkoff 29
Hutton 30 (STL signed to replace Elliott)
Khudobin 30
Dell 27
Stalock 28
Enroth 28

26 yo Anders Nilsson was traded for a 5th (put up good numbers in BUF as CJ's replacement)
26 yo Darcy Kuemper could probably have been had for a lot less than a 2nd (was let free as a UFA at the end of that season).

Elliott was certainly better than everyone on the list above (and his regular season performance probably flattered the Flames), but a 35OA pick is an insane price to secure 1 year of a 31 and 30 yo goaltending tandem.

Goalies are voodoo. Must of the guys above are underwhelming. But ultimately so was Elliott. A tandem of any of the above would have been fine at that stage. Or if you spend resources, make it on a younger guy who has a shot at solving the problem long term (and Chad Johnson or any of the above would have been a fine partner).

For me, this was probably worse than the Hamonic deal in terms of timing/philosophy and value. At least that Hamonic deal had a better opportunity to recover assets had he not been injured.