Is It Time to Split Up Johnny & Mony?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

That's not really what the article says if you read it, more that Johnny-Monahan need more support from a strong transition RW or RD. It does suggest that Monahan would be better used on the wing.

My memory is foggy going back a number of seasons but Jiri Hudler seemed to really provide that third element for Johnny and Monahan.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

My memory is foggy going back a number of seasons but Jiri Hudler seemed to really provide that third element for Johnny and Monahan.

The article also uses the example of Dougie, and Brodie was probably another key piece that could carry the puck on the RD side.

AKA Rasmus not stepping up in a big way has hurt, along with the lack of a viable RW for the line. Could Monahan be better? Yeah but this is the player he is and it's not a bad player. They're just not being used properly, still.

[flames_fan13]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

The article also uses the example of Dougie, and Brodie was probably another key piece that could carry the puck on the RD side.

AKA Rasmus not stepping up in a big way has hurt, along with the lack of a viable RW for the line. Could Monahan be better? Yeah but this is the player he is and it's not a bad player. They're just not being used properly, still.

I think the lack of a defensmen jumping has hurt both Gaudreau and Monahan's game. Both players need that late threat to keep the other team on their toes. Andersson needs to join a little more on the rush, having a late threat in the offensive zone would allow Monahan more space as the other team shifts their players towards the trailer. Right now you take away Gaudreau's pass to Monahan they know the only option Gaudreau has is to dump it in the corner.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

That's not really what the article says if you read it, more that Johnny-Monahan need more support from a strong transition RW or RD. It does suggest that Monahan would be better used on the wing.

Support won’t help, 13 & 23 will always be destined to fail in the playoffs. Even Lindholm was thrown on to that line against Dallas and they looked like trash together.

If the puck always funnels to one of your wingers, then a 1-2-2 forecheck will always defeat your rush attempt. The center is effectively the only forward who can bypass and navigate through the bodies to find the path of least resistance. Until the Flames find a center that can do this at a high level, they’re going no where in the playoffs.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by flames_fan13

I think the lack of a defensmen jumping has hurt both Gaudreau and Monahan's game. Both players need that late threat to keep the other team on their toes. Andersson needs to join a little more on the rush, having a late threat in the offensive zone would allow Monahan more space as the other team shifts their players towards the trailer. Right now you take away Gaudreau's pass to Monahan they know the only option Gaudreau has is to dump it in the corner.

How can your defense join the rush though when they’re caught defending deep in the dzone. The only way the defense can join your attack is if the puck carrier can buy enough time for them to actually get into a dangerous position in the ozone. But if the puck always funnels to your winger who also happens to be the farthest player ahead of the play, the defensive track back will nullify any opportunity for the defense to join in the rush.

I’ve seen Gaudreau move laterally east-west and buy enough time for the defense to join in the attack, but the opposition is dropping their F2 and F3 back so frequently against this line that the option just isn’t there for Gaudreau.

[flames_fan13]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

How can your defense join the rush though when they’re caught defending deep in the dzone. The only way the defense can join your attack is if the puck carrier can buy enough time for them to actually get into a dangerous position in the ozone. But if the puck always funnels to your winger who also happens to be the farthest player ahead of the play, the defensive track back will nullify any opportunity for the defense to join in the rush.

I’ve seen Gaudreau move laterally east-west and buy enough time for the defense to join in the attack, but the opposition is dropping their F2 and F3 back so frequently against this line that the option just isn’t there for Gaudreau.

That may be true and part of the issue of moving Lindholm to C, it takes away one forward who can control or make passes to delay. But can't really do much about that unless they put Lindholm back to RW. Although the lines yesterday seemed to work despite some mental lapses.

Each pair seems to have atleast one mobile defenseman (Andersson, Hanafin and Valimaki) on each pair so they can catch up to the play.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by flames_fan13

That may be true and part of the issue of moving Lindholm to C, it takes away one forward who can control or make passes to delay. But can't really do much about that unless they put Lindholm back to RW. Although the lines yesterday seemed to work despite some mental lapses.

Each pair seems to have atleast one mobile defenseman (Andersson, Hanafin and Valimaki) on each pair so they can catch up to the play.

The key especially in the playoffs is your center. The center sits below the hashmarks and can control the pace of your breakout better then anyone else. If the puck funnels to your center for most breakouts, then your defense can probably join the play more often. But the biggest weakness of the Flames’ centers are their puck distributing abilities.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

The key especially in the playoffs is your center. The center sits below the hashmarks and can control the pace of your breakout better then anyone else. If the puck funnels to your center for most breakouts, then your defense can probably join the play more often. But the biggest weakness of the Flames’ centers are their puck distributing abilities.

On the Monahan line I’ve noticed that defensive puck retrieval is often left to him, so he’d grab it, and then he’d have to choose a wing (usually JG) for the outlet pass. That puts him as the third forward on the rush.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

On the Monahan line I’ve noticed that defensive puck retrieval is often left to him, so he’d grab it, and then he’d have to choose a wing (usually JG) for the outlet pass. That puts him as the third forward on the rush.

That’s true, which is a problem I think. It’s easier to move up as a 5 man unit when the guy right in the middle has the puck. If Gaudreau is the outlet, he’s got no one in front of him to pass to, one man to pass to behind him, the winger on the other end of rink and none of the dmen because they’re still transitioning up the ice. So that’s why I think the center is paramount.

I’ve seen Mikael Backlund on occasion make a defensive stop and navigate through the middle of the ice himself. He’s probably the best center on the team at breaking through traps and a clogged up neutral zone, but even then, his puck skills and finishing abilities are limited, so he can’t be your #1 centerman. So realistically, the Flames have to find that guy which is next to impossible in the NHL.

[SeanCharles]

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Dube
Tkachuk-Monahan-Mangiapane

[Red]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Dube
Tkachuk-Monahan-Mangiapane

These 3 would be fun to watch trying to skate together.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

I'm not in the trade Johnny camp. I'm not convinced that you'd get a good return for him. Maybe see if you could sign him to something like a 6m/year for 3 years extension.

Maybe see if he will work for free. If he is going to sign a bargain contract, it sure won’t be in Calgary. The less he produces here, the faster he will want out.


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[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

The less he produces here, the faster he will want out.

All the more reason to pair him with Lindholm and see if his production rebounds. Keeping him together with a probably injured Monahan doesn't make any sense at this point.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

All the more reason to pair him with Lindholm and see if his production rebounds. Keeping him together with a probably injured Monahan doesn't make any sense at this point.

Took the words right of my mouth. Stick him to Lindholm and see what happens.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Red

These 3 would be fun to watch trying to skate together.

Tkachuk and Monahan probably play at a similar pace and Mangiapane would be falling down all the time as per tradition so they would all be around each other for puck support..

[TheChief]

Gaudreau - Ryan - Lucic
Tkachuk - Backlund - Dube
Nordstrom - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Monahan - Bennett - Leivo


This is the way

[TheChief]

and for defence...


Hanifin - Tanev
Valimaki - Andersson
Gio - Kylington

[Mattman]

Yes. It is time.

[tvp2003]

From what I watched I thought that 13/23/28 had a little extra jump last night. However, it was usually 13 and 28 stirring the drink.

So yeah, let’s replace Monahan with Lindholm, and find someone else who can play the wing.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

From what I watched I thought that 13/23/28 had a little extra jump last night. However, it was usually 13 and 28 stirring the drink.

So yeah, let’s replace Monahan with Lindholm, and find someone else who can play the wing.

I thought the opposite. - I thought Monahan was easily the most energetic and effective out of the three, aside from one rush by Gaudreau. I actually forgot Lindholm even existed outside of his boneheaded penalty and not being ready for the opening faceoff.