Blow it up!

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

Brad WAS told and has NO power anymore. He's not on thin ice he's treading water with big anchors attached to his legs

Was he? No one has reported this that I've seen.

In fact, if I recall Friedman was on the Fan 960 and stated that he believed the opposite.

[Voodooman]

This will be unpopular, but I think you start by moving Gio now, even if you have to retain up to 30%. He's a big problem on the ice, and I think an even bigger one off the ice. You want to shake the core, that guy goes.

I think he has a 10 team no-trade list. Find out who is on it, and make 19 phone calls.

[EVERLAST]

He assembled this team....kept the core....shipped out pieces too late and now the team seems to have a permanent identity crisis, CPTSD, adhd, low T, low GAF meter readings and has forced our fan base to wear jerseys with brown pants on game days as a result.

[EVERLAST]

Originally Posted by Voodooman

This will be unpopular, but I think you start by moving Gio now, even if you have to retain up to 30%. He's a big problem on the ice, and I think an even bigger one off the ice. You want to shake the core, that guy goes.

I think he has a 10 team no-trade list. Find out who is on it, and make 19 phone calls.

Your GD right it's unpopular.

Darryl Sutter said.....and he's right.....that one player does not make a team.

MARK GIORDANO.....was a great captain, ambassador for this team , community leader, Norris trophy winner and was once singled out bY Scotty Bowman as being the most improved player in the NHL.

Sit for a nanosecond and digest that.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

Your GD right it's unpopular.

Darryl Sutter said.....and he's right.....that one player does not make a team.

MARK GIORDANO.....was a great captain, ambassador for this team , community leader, Norris trophy winner and was once singled out bY Scotty Bowman as being the most improved player in the NHL.

Sit for a nanosecond and digest that.

so? That means we should honor him by trying to either get him a cup as he closes out the career or try to maximize the future that he can help bring to our club. His on ice play this year (and last year) is not helping us get any closer to a cup.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by TOfan

yes. I think there is a good chance it does. I am less concerned about what the Flames would be giving up if they trade JG, and more concerned about what they are getting. By this I mean, if JG goes on to play somewhere else and he explodes, fine. So long as the player(s) brought back improve the Flames now and in the future.

If the speculated deal of JG and a 2nd for TK and a 5th has any merit, I would go for it. Factor in the cap savings (more cap space to address other areas of improvement), age and contract term, this seems like a sensible trade to me.

If JG doesn't/can't find his upside here, then it is time to move on.

JG is one side of the issue perhaps, but he's also a victim of it too. Whoever comes in is still going to be skating up the ice with Sean and Ritchie or whoever else they slot in there. The offensive woes aren't likely to explode in our favor are they?

[Macho0978]

I love when people talk complete rebuilds as the only way to add elite talent and build cup contenders. They use Pittsburgh and Washington as the examples. I love how these 2 teams are the model when both those examples are now nearly 2 decades old. Things have changed. Rules have changed. No longer are the worst team in league automatic to get one of top 2 picks. Draft lottery has given good teams too 3 picks almost yearly of late. Gone are days of front loaded 12 year deals. Guys are getting paid earlier in the last 5 years too

Pittsburgh won 2 cups with Crosby on an illegal contract

Washington won 1 with AO and Backstrom on illegal contracts

Kings won 2 with Richards and carter on illegal contracts

La and Chicago were forced to rebuild when these rules changed due to their stars signing 10+ Mil contracts.

Are all elite players drafted top 3 and are all teams drafting top 3 in last place? Retool can be just as effective

Also how many players were deemed not championship quality players on bad teams then go to good teams and are deemed elite? Stone? Oreilly

How many elite players teams rebuild and those players stay during rebuild and are no longer elite? Toews? Doughty?

The flames look bad but to say this team has nothing that is worth anything is stupid IMO

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Almost all the Flames best trade assets are in their 20's now and that's a much better place to be compared to teams that have a core of top players in their 30's with limited trade value. Ducks and Kings were screwed because their best players were in their 30's, tied up long term, and declining making them largely untradeable. The Blackhawks are in deep even with the get out of jail free card they got from the Hossa retirement scam. If the Flames keep hanging on to this core they will head in that direction of no return.

This is why it's somewhat critical for the Flames to make some decisions. There is a number of guys in their mid 20's on okay dollar contracts right now. Gaudreau, Monahan, Hanifin, Lindholm, and Tkachuck. Those guys all likely look for more money on their next deal, and in each case save maybe Hanifin they likely are not as productive in the seasons after their current deals expire. So even at the same money...value would be less.

Do they continue on with this, change it our, or look for a reset? I don't know. I think they'll likely perpetuate the cycle of mediocrity and trade most of them for lesser younger NHL players who cost less, not really get any good draft picks and over pay in free agency for second and third tier help or keep trading premium packages and assets for average players.

I would prefer picks and a 3 year commitment minimum to rebuilding the asset base. Easy for me to say though.

[powderjunkie]

I think you gotta move Johnny ASAP for the best deal available. His value won't fluctuate much between now and next TDL, this is the one move that turns the page on the team and moves you toward Sutter-style hockey.

A contract will be coming back. I'd prefer a young cost controlled player (probably underwhelming) with some weak prospects/picks over an older guy and better futures. The main reason being that a Debrusk-type (I know many will say gross) is more likely to retain future trade value when it's actually time to blow it up.

Obviously you also sell Ryan+Rittich+Bennett for anything you can get.

Try to move Gio, too. If not possible, bump him to the 3rd pair with Kylington and let Tanev babysit Valimaki.

Are the owners willing to retain on Gio and Johnny? That;s the only way we're getting a decent return.

[Azhouse]

I’m with moving Gio as well. His best days are WAY behind him.

[Sec214]

Make Toronto pay a team like Chicago to get a Gio as well as flames to eat 50% of that contract and let him be a depth Dman in Toronto.

[Voodooman]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Try to move Gio, too. If not possible, bump him to the 3rd pair with Kylington and let Tanev babysit Valimaki.

Couldn't agree more, I think Sutter has to shake up the pairings for sure. Gio shouldn't be in the top pairing anymore, and we're watching Andersson regress right in front of our eyes.

Hanifan/Andersson
Tanev/Valimaki
Gio/Kylington/Nesterov/Mackey....

If you can find a trade to send Gio to a contender, and get anything in return, then pull the trigger.

[pikester]

Originally Posted by Drunk Uncle

Was he? No one has reported this that I've seen.

In fact, if I recall Friedman was on the Fan 960 and stated that he believed the opposite.

i think anyone who has watched the drama of this team (particularly since the playoff collapse of '19), recognises Treliving has likely fired the last of the bullets he had left in his magazine with the aquisition of Markstrom, and then re-hiring Sutter. Ironically it will be bringing back Sutter that likely seals Tre's fate. Sutter is eliminating any blame that might previously have been attributed to unproven coaching, laying bare the warts & shortcomings of this roster for all to see. This roster that Brad Treliving alone is responsible for. The only way I see Tre survive as GM beyond the end of this season is if ownership burries their heads in the sand, stubbornly believe they can fix this with a couple major & minor trades, and hope Sutter has enough to work with. Unfortunately for this franchise & it's fiercely loyal fanbase, this does appear to be the direction they are leaning.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Sec214

Make Toronto pay a team like Chicago to get a Gio as well as flames to eat 50% of that contract and let him be a depth Dman in Toronto.

The Jets would be a natural fit for Gio. But he has a limited no trade clause, and Winnipeg is likely on the list.

[Flamesfan05]

Trade everything you can, but make sure to fire Treliving first

Dude has no clue

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by pikester

i think anyone who has watched the drama of this team (particularly since the playoff collapse of '19), recognises Treliving has likely fired the last of the bullets he had left in his magazine with the aquisition of Markstrom, and then re-hiring Sutter. Ironically it will be bringing back Sutter that likely seals Tre's fate. Sutter is eliminating any blame that might previously have been attributed to unproven coaching, laying bare the warts & shortcomings of this roster for all to see. This roster that Brad Treliving alone is responsible for. The only way I see Tre survive as GM beyond the end of this season is if ownership burries their heads in the sand, stubbornly believe they can fix this with a couple major & minor trades, and hope Sutter has enough to work with. Unfortunately for this franchise & it's fiercely loyal fanbase, this does appear to be the direction they are leaning.

I don't know... I see lots of people saying this and I think some of the points are fair, but unless you know the inner workings of what was available to the Flames and for what prices especially with trades, signings or potential hires, it's near impossible to properly evaluate Tre's performance. For all we know a lesser GM may have taken us to a far worse place than we are today and Ownership may also recognize this and fully support Tre.

The only aspect of the GM job we have full visibility of is drafting... and for me the drafting under Tre has been better than any GM I can remember.

[Bonded]

I think you have to pay a team to take Gio this year. Demote him to the third pair or keep on the first pair to lead the tank and then expose him during the expansion draft.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Flame On

JG is one side of the issue perhaps, but he's also a victim of it too. Whoever comes in is still going to be skating up the ice with Sean and Ritchie or whoever else they slot in there. The offensive woes aren't likely to explode in our favor are they?

Well, who knows?

I don’t think the Flames are going to trade JG and say they’re done. Wouldn’t be shocked if the Flames made 2 or 3 significant moves.

[pikester]

Originally Posted by Drunk Uncle

I don't know... I see lots of people saying this and I think some of the points are fair, but unless you know the inner workings of what was available to the Flames and for what prices especially with trades, signings or potential hires, it's near impossible to properly evaluate Tre's performance. For all we know a lesser GM may have taken us to a far worse place than we are today and Ownership may also recognize this and fully support Tre.

The only aspect of the GM job we have full visibility of is drafting... and for me the drafting under Tre has been better than any GM I can remember.

Also fair points regarding drafting. Drafting well is only part of the equation though, having the proper coaching staff that can bring those pieces into the fold & help them add to the identity of the team to succeed might actually be more important than the induvidual getting drafted. As we know all too well, that identity factor went MIA after Sutter's last departure which is exactly what Treliving was brought in to rectify. Yet here we are 7 years later still wondering what this teams identity is supposed to be. Moves that couldn't be made for whatever reasons can't really be a factor because they are a given for any GM in the league. There would be very few GM's fired if they were all given free passes for faiure to accomplish moves based on obstacles.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Well, who knows?

I don’t think the Flames are going to trade JG and say they’re done. Wouldn’t be shocked if the Flames made 2 or 3 significant moves.

I’d guess they didn’t bring sutter in to tinker.

I would think plan A was get the team into the playoffs by motivating the current roster.

Plan B if unsuccessful is probably to figure out who stays and who goes. From what I’ve been watching in terms of what it looks like sutter wants vs the roster he inherited my guess is that the majority of our top end forwards do not fit the mold.

My other guess is that at least a few of them don’t want to be here either.