2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours - Page 488 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Drunk Uncle · 03-25-2021, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

I think it's foolish to assume Stone would have left in free agency. Yes we probably needed to pay him slightly more but it would have been worth it.

If you want to look at the failed trade in a vacuum, we missed an opportunity to get a star player and improve as a team. It's that simple.

And then for those that want to look at it with context,. Yes we probably would have needed to trade Mony or Johnny or whoever to make space. But they probably could have brought back a significant return at the time. Recoup assets lost by trading Vali. Maybe get a D prospect with just as much potential. Would we really have been worse off than the gong show we have now? I highly doubt it.

I would love to have Stone and agree that we could have made him fit into the cap by moving others.

However, I think it's foolish to ignore what Stone actually told his agent (I want to sign in Vegas) and then assume he would just abandon that idea. Even if that wasn't super clear, I think you're underestimating the tax situation in Vegas and what "slightly more" means... and you're willing to take that risk at the expense of Valimaki... no thanks.

scotty2hotty · 03-25-2021, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Sutter has said in the past you need a strong centre, strong D, and a goalie to compete. So to stay competitive and keep him happy enough while still doing a "rebuild", I think we could get away with keeping the following:

Lindholm

1 of Tkachuk or Johnny

Lucic

Tanev
Valimaki
Hanafin

Markstrom

Trade everyone else for younger players with room to grow into still, then let Sutter take the next two seasons to mold the new group in his image. No more giant egos, no more players needing to play with specific players.

No Andersson?

SeanCharles · 03-25-2021, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Sutter has said in the past you need a strong centre, strong D, and a goalie to compete. So to stay competitive and keep him happy enough while still doing a "rebuild", I think we could get away with keeping the following:

Lindholm

1 of Tkachuk or Johnny

Lucic

Tanev
Valimaki
Hanafin

Markstrom

Trade everyone else for younger players with room to grow into still, then let Sutter take the next two seasons to mold the new group in his image. No more giant egos, no more players needing to play with specific players.

We’ve already turned on Andersson I guess?

It’s comical how quickly we change gears.

Last year we were talking about trading Hanifin now Andersson is on the chopping block?

RedHawk12 · 03-25-2021, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

^Lots of assumptions there.
Slightly more? Based on what.
Vegas is a better run franchise, better situated to win now, and in a better place to live.
Seems hard to beat

We were in the middle of a amazing season. At the time, expectations were sky high and our organization had a good reputation. Can't let recent events and state of the team dictate the view of the team back then.

Monahammer · 03-25-2021, 01:07 PM

Frankly I think the two are pretty interchangeable, but Hanafin has looked notably better this year while Andersson has looked notably worse. That Plus Hanafin being Tanev's best partner so far, want to give Sutter a rock solid pair he feels he can rely on.

SeanCharles · 03-25-2021, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Frankly I think the two are pretty interchangeable, but Hanafin has looked notably better this year while Andersson has looked notably worse. That Plus Hanafin being Tanev's best partner so far, want to give Sutter a rock solid pair he feels he can rely on.

That is what I am saying is the problem.

We look at a 30 odd game set and think that is how things are all the time.

Andersson is part of this teams future and I, for one, will be pissed if we trade him. Valimaki too.

Monahammer · 03-25-2021, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

That is what I am saying is the problem.

We look at a 30 odd game set and think that is how things are all the time.

Andersson is part of this teams future and I, for one, will be pissed if we trade him. Valimaki too.

So what you're saying is that you believe that our Defense as currently built will be part of a successful cup winning roster in 3-5 years?

Keeping in mind that without trading one of Hanifin, Andersson, or Valimaki they will almost certainly make up our top 4 (w/tanev) because of contract value.

If we want to improve our defense (it absolutely needs to be improved) then we should look at trading one of these guys. I chose Andersson.

browntrout · 03-25-2021, 01:19 PM

It's time to pay the piper, whether it's BT or a new GM the team needs to rebuild or trade for an star centre(highly unlikely) Take your lumps build through the draft. This core has proven they are not championship calibre, what's the point? I can't speak for everyone on this board, but I would be more excited about a rebuilding team then this continued medicority.

SeanCharles · 03-25-2021, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monahammer

So what you're saying is that you believe that our Defense as currently built will be part of a successful cup winning roster in 3-5 years?

Keeping in mind that without trading one of Hanifin, Andersson, or Valimaki they will almost certainly make up our top 4 (w/tanev) because of contract value.

If we want to improve our defense (it absolutely needs to be improved) then we should look at trading one of these guys. I chose Andersson.

Improvements also come with players getting older and gaining more experience.

These guys are young.

Was Gio a Norris calibre dman at 24 years old?

The way people so quickly turn on our players when things aren’t going so well is laughable.

I understand it with the veterans but Andersson has only been a full-time NHL dman for essentially 2.5 seasons.

Dmen typically hit their peak in their mid-or-late 20’s.

Why are we going to trade him now?

Lanny_McDonald · 03-25-2021, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by browntrout

but I would be more excited about a rebuilding team then this continued medicority.

Said no one who had to live through the Young Guns era.

Monahammer · 03-25-2021, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Improvements also come with players getting older and gaining more experience.

These guys are young.

Was Gio a Norris calibre dman at 24 years old?

The way people so quickly turn on our players when things aren’t going so well is laughable.

I understand it with the veterans but Andersson has only been a full-time NHL dman for essentially 2.5 seasons.

Dmen typically hit their peak in their mid-or-late 20’s.

Why are we going to trade him now?

I think we have another bigger problem, outside of raw skill level and whether or not the three will improve, in that all three essentially play the same game. They are heads up pass first skating d men. Not bad, but I think we need some variety in these players.

Rasmus +Hanifin both make ~5 million. That's why, again, I think you need to move one of them for a different type of player. Someone in the Phillipe Myers mold. Maybe Yan Kuzetnetsov will be this guy, not sure. But I dont think we need to keep all three, and if one can be a major piece of a trade for a 1C or a big piece up front I say we need to do it.

MrMike · 03-25-2021, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Era

Said no one who had to live through the Young Guns era.

That wasn’t rebuilding. That was we can’t afford to compete.

The Cobra · 03-25-2021, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

We were in the middle of a amazing season. At the time, expectations were sky high and our organization had a good reputation. Can't let recent events and state of the team dictate the view of the team back then.

Except that Stone made that statement two years ago when Calgary was magical.

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The Cobra · 03-25-2021, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I think we have another bigger problem, outside of raw skill level and whether or not the three will improve, in that all three essentially play the same game.

That’s actually a good thing, as long as that game is hockey.

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Lanny_McDonald · 03-25-2021, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMike

That wasn’t rebuilding. That was we can’t afford to compete.

That's exactly what a rebuild is like. You draft and play young players with promise and hope they develop into something. While you do that you use middle of the road retreads to support those young players and provide "leadership." It's painful, it's ugly, and it's not much fun.

SportsJunky · 03-25-2021, 01:38 PM

I was listening to Jim "Boomer" Gordon this morning and he made a good point. If you look at the top 20 scorers this season, all but 3 are former 1st round draft picks. In the top 10 only one (Mark Stone picked 178th) is not a former 1st rounder.

IF the Flames are pulling the plug on this season soon, I'd like to see some 1st round picks coming back for the players that are shipped out.

The Cobra · 03-25-2021, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Was Gio a Norris calibre dman at 24 years old?

While your post is correct, I wouldn’t use the ultimate outlier to prove your premise.

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SeanCharles · 03-25-2021, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I think we have another bigger problem, outside of raw skill level and whether or not the three will improve, in that all three essentially play the same game. They are heads up pass first skating d men. Not bad, but I think we need some variety in these players.

Rasmus +Hanifin both make ~5 million. That's why, again, I think you need to move one of them for a different type of player. Someone in the Phillipe Myers mold. Maybe Yan Kuzetnetsov will be this guy, not sure. But I dont think we need to keep all three, and if one can be a major piece of a trade for a 1C or a big piece up front I say we need to do it.

Well if you want to get into their similarities and differences, shouldn’t Andersson be a keeper as he is essentially our only under 30yo RHed dman in the organization that is capable of playing regular NHL minutes?

Yelesin (25) and Kinnvall (23) are similarly aged and have shown little to nothing at the NHL level yet and are looking like bottom pairing players at best.

Meanwhile our left side:

Hanifin
Valimaki
Kylington
Mackey
Lerby
Kuznetzov
Poirier

If they are, as you say, essentially the same, Andersson should not be the one to go.

The Cobra · 03-25-2021, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

I was listening to Jim "Boomer" Gordon this morning and he made a good point. If you look at the top 20 scorers this season, all but 3 are former 1st round draft picks. In the top 10 only one (Mark Stone picked 178th) is not a former 1st rounder.

IF the Flames are pulling the plug on this season soon, I'd like to see some 1st round picks coming back for the players that are shipped out.

Hard to move players with term at the trade deadline these days when cap is king. Especially ones that are not producing.

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SeanCharles · 03-25-2021, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cobra

While your post is correct, I wouldn’t use the ultimate outlier to prove your premise.

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Here we go.

I’m trying to say dmen aren’t usually playing at their top form as 24 year olds.

I used one of our own organizations developmental successes as the example.

My bad.