[PGT] Best team ever 3 Flames 1

[blender]

Originally Posted by zamler

Flames are 21st in the league will take some hard work to reach the bottom.

Indeed.

We are losing our minds here, and rightly so, but as bad as it is, it will need to get much worse before the Flames are even close to the league basement.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Joborule

In a sense, yes. The captain is only one player, and it's not a sport like basketball or soccer where one player can be so good that they can carry the team on their backs to playoff runs primarily on their own. But the C is on that player for a reason since they are suppose to be the strongest leader and motivator on the team. If a team is having great sustain success, that can be a positive reflection on the captain.

Admittedly from a fan perspective, I think it's impossible for us to see just exactly how a captain inspires their team in the locker room and off the ice. The only real glimpse we get is theirs's, and the team's on ice performance.

This also makes me think. I would say majority of us think Iginla is a great captain. And I suppose that's the case since he also was assistant captain on the Olympic teams. So there's validation there. But his teams also didn't amount to much save being one goal away from winning the cup. That playoff run alone may be enough to justify him being a great captain. But it makes me ponder, is Connor McDavid a great captain?

He literally carries the team on his back, but it hasn't translated to any real playoff success. But year in, year out, he's at the top of the league leaders list in points. Due to lack of playoff runs, I don't believe there's much talk around the league about him being a good captain. But if the Oilers (heaven forbid) were to actually get some playoff runs, would that narrative start to unfold then?

It’s apparent to me that a player can be a good captain but saddled with a crap team.

Is that Gio now? I think it’s pretty hard to say the guy we all thought was a great captain isn’t any more just because his body is failing him, or that the players around him are struggling. But what I do firmly believe is that stripping a player of a letter is almost always counterproductive. San Jose looked bush league when they did it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

If Mark Messier was drafted one pick earlier by the Canucks he would have zero cups

I dunno - he did so well when he went to the Canucks later on.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by dino7c

If Mark Messier was drafted one pick earlier by the Canucks he would have zero cups

Just as likely that Calgary would have zero cups considering it went to 7 games in 89.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

You used this same excuse last game too when someone called you the resident apologist.

I'm just telling you to chill because if you think the board attack on the Flames is bad now, wait until the next 10 games.

Excuse for what? what are you even talking about now?

I am a Flames apologist because I don't think Gio is the "worst captain ever"

[cannon7]

Can anyone actually make an argument supporting the claim that Giordano is a great captain? I'd be intrigued to see what examples are brought to the table here.

I don't think he's the worst captain ever. Or in Flames history.

I also don't think you need to win a Cup to be considered a great captain.

You know who I think was a great captain but few think of him? Brian Skrudland. He did win a Cup with the Canadiens, but not as captain, obviously. And those 80's Canadiens was likely a breeding ground for leaders.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Can anyone actually make an argument supporting the claim that Giordano is a great captain? I'd be intrigued to see what examples are brought to the table here.

I don't think he's the worst captain ever. Or in Flames history.

I also don't think you need to win a Cup to be considered a great captain.

You know who I think was a great captain but few think of him? Brian Skrudland. He did win a Cup with the Canadiens, but not as captain, obviously. And those 80's Canadiens was likely a breeding ground for leaders.

Well, for years he did everything he could possibly do on the ice to help the team win - leading by example. He has kept himself in great physical condition and usually was the fittest Flame every camp, again, leading by example.

As far as “in the room”, I remember years ago some player in the 80s was talking about Flames leaders and he said “Pepper is a real rah rah guy in the room”. But he didn’t sound like he figured that was important, as opposed to the guys he talked about leading by example.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Can anyone actually make an argument supporting the claim that Giordano is a great captain? I'd be intrigued to see what examples are brought to the table here.

I don't think he's the worst captain ever. Or in Flames history.

I also don't think you need to win a Cup to be considered a great captain.

You know who I think was a great captain but few think of him? Brian Skrudland. He did win a Cup with the Canadiens, but not as captain, obviously. And those 80's Canadiens was likely a breeding ground for leaders.

Define first the criteria for what makes a great captain, and how we as fans would recognize it as distinct from other aspects which make teams successful.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

You used this same excuse last game too when someone called you the resident apologist.

I'm just telling you to chill because if you think the board attack on the Flames is bad now, wait until the next 10 games.

Least now he doesn't do a post history search and bring it up like he did a couple years ago. I believe many feel the way I did 2 years ago, now, so he can't really.

Gio is certainly not the worst captain in Flames history, but the cycle and culture of the Flames makes you wonder. Iggy got criticized his last few years for the teams lazy play and so called lack of care, Gio is going through it now but many are chalking it up as getting old, which I think is accurate. Flames held on to another asset to long, colour me shocked.

There are deeper problems within the organization that need to be fixed before any of this gets resolved.

[Red]

How do you grade a captain as a fan?

A captain is most noticeable in the room and with the refs when major things happen.

Fans don't have an insight in to either.

I met Gio once, nice guy. But a good or bad captain? No idea.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I also don't think you need to win a Cup to be considered a great captain.

When I made that point, I was moreso saying teams that at least are cup contenders, and make it past the first round generally, but don't have to win it all.

But if there's a hurdle that the team and it's captain can't seem to overcome, then the questions of the captain's ability to push the team over the hump do seem to come up. Joe Thorton/Joe Pavelski was always labeled as chokers. And Alex Ovechkin also label. Both of these players finally did get to the Final, one did win, and the negative labels of those players were dropped then.

[Mr.Coffee]

Missed the game.

Anyway only wanted to point out that the reason so many comments and posts in this thread are referring to fans losing interest and not caring is because the players don’t care, and have lost interest.

That’s just the reality. You can tell when people are checked out. The Flames players have been for a long time. Sutter shoulda started the season, not way too late in a bandaid solution.

Time to blow it up starting with Treliving. Get a guy with a plan in place quickly, try to maximize value at the deadline, if no deal is there, do it pre-Johnny restricted trade list. Turn this franchise into a championship team. It can be done if you stop lying to yourself about extremely obvious ####. Enough is enough.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Least now he doesn't do a post search history and bring it up like he did a couple years ago. I believe many feel the way I did 2 years ago, now, so he can't really.

Gio is certainly not the worst captain in Flames history, but the cycle and culture of the Flames makes you wonder. Iggy got criticized his last few years for the teams lazy play and so called lack of care, Gio is going through it now but many are chalking it up as getting old, which I think is accurate. Flames held on to another asset to long, colour me shocked.

There are deeper problems within the organization that need to be fixed before any of this gets resolved.

I haven't said anything positive about the Flames in a month but a two posters want to I toada so me after every game...sorry guy I am not on the ice take your frustration out elsewhere

I do push back against ridiculous hot takes (you actually agreed with me on this one)


I guess if you are always negative you will probably be right in a league where 30 teams out of 31 lose each year...congrats on calling the Flames demise. I can probably accurately name 25 teams that won't win a damn thing this year right now.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by LiquidX

Remember when we talked about who we wanted to protect in the expansion draft?

Hey Seattle:

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Joborule

When I made that point, I was moreso saying teams that at least are cup contenders, and make it past the first round generally, but don't have to win it all.



But if there's a hurdle that the team and it's captain can't seem to overcome, then the questions of the captain's ability to push the team over the hump do seem to come up. Joe Thorton/Joe Pavelski was always labeled as chokers. And Alex Ovechkin also label. Both of these players finally did get to the Final, one did win, and the negative labels of those players were dropped then.

This only reinforces my opinion that the captaincy is pretty irrelevant to success. Great players and great teams win regardless of who happens to be wearing a letter at the time.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[81MC]

Don’t give much ####s, but ####ting on a career flame because he’s finally showing his age is gross. Get the hell out of here with that #### ffs.

[Flame On]

I don't Think Gio is a bad captain, and I don't think ripping the C away would do anything. Probably hurt the team more in the long run. Iggy didn't come across as fire & brimstone, but I think there was more of that in the room to support his on ice example. This version of the team has a lot of mild mannered types. Another blindspot for the GM.

[blender]

Originally Posted by LiquidX

Remember when we talked about who we wanted to protect in the expansion draft?

Everyone on the roster - even the role players seem disinterested. No one is moving without the puck, there's no puck support, and half the team wilts if they get looked at sideways.

What happened to this team.

Good question.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

LOL at a guy who claims a series win makes a good captain and then calls one of only two guys since the cup win to have won even one series “the worst”.

Speaking of 89, captains were so important none of them were even regulars on the ice.

These two posts key in on a couple of valuable points.

Culture is key. The key, some might argue. Flames in 89 didn't need a captain on the ice because they had a solid culture and were all on the same page when it came time to drop the puck. No questions, no passengers, no doubt they could beat anyone, any night.

Whatever is going on here is beyond Xs and Os. We have seen these players play well. They are not the best constructed team for sure, and that's on Treliving. He needs to pay for his failure for sure. The Giordano era is coming to an end, and I won't get drawn in to the mudslinging. He's an all-time Flame, but his era will be defined by disappointment and unfulfilled expectations. It's a shame.

For whatever reason the culture with this core never developed properly. It's likely that no one knows exactly why, even the players on the team might not be aware; sometimes the view from the inside is obscured.

A reset is needed, and I'm glad Sutter will be involved. I do wonder how quickly it could turn around.

Hope it isn't that far off.

[dino7c]

I just think the "captain" is the new "coach"

Reality is the team as a whole isn't good enough but its easier to blame one thing.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Don’t give much ####s, but ####ting on a career flame because he’s finally showing his age is gross. Get the hell out of here with that #### ffs.

The guy has made over 50 million as Flame (probably 25-30M net). He's had a great career, and is still a good dman in my opinion, but he isn't above criticism. Nobody on this team should be immune from criticism with the garbage we are seeing lately.