Brad Treliving Trade History

[The Original FFIV]

They say that you don't have to win every trade, only that you have to win more trades than you lose. So let's have a look at Treliving's trade history, from 2015 onwards (given that the 2014 draft had Burke's handprints all over it). Leaving out minor league transactions and pick flips as those are of little consequence:

2015:
Glencross to Washington for a 2nd and 3rd - win.
- used the second in the Hamilton trade and the 3rd to move up for Kylington
Baertschi to Vancouver for a 2nd - win
- drafted Andersson with the pick. Nuff said.
1st, 2 2nds for Dougie Hamilton - win
Steep price but fair for a top pairing D. Wasn't the right fit in Calgary but hard to argue with the price paid for that type of player

2016
Hudler to Florida for a 2nd and a 4th - win at the time but trending like a draw
- good return for Hudler but picks haven't panned out as yet
Russell to Dallas for 2nd, Jokipaaka and Pollock - win
- Dube was selected with 2nd which makes this a good win. Other players involved were spare parts
Jones for Backstrom and a 6th - win
- Good use to take back bad money and get a pick which was used for Phillips who still holds potential
Elliott for a 2nd - loss
- burned a high 2nd round pick for one year of a very average goalie who did nothing to help stabilize the crease and was gone the following year.
Stone for a 3rd/5th - loss.
- big overpayment for a 5th dman who was very average in Calgary.
Chad Johnson, Brandon Hickey and a 3rd for Mike Smith - win
- Smith provided decent performance for team and played well in playoffs. Trended down as expected but did decent work over 2 year period


2017
1st, 2 2nds for Travis Hamonic - big loss
- Hamonic never found his groove in Calgary. Was supposed to help change culture in dressing room but results on ice showed we acquired a defenceman in decline for a premium price
2nd round pick for Lazar - loss
- high pick given up for reclamation project. Too high of a pick surrendered for player that didn't turn out

2018
Ferland/Fox/Hamilton for Hanifin/Lindholm - win
Was able to recoup value for Hamilton who wasn't working out and got a top 6 F and top 4 dman back

2019
4th round pick for Fantenberg - loss
- Pick blown for a depth d who saw spot duty in short playoff run
Neal for Lucic - draw trending towards win
- bad signing resulted in bad fit swapped out for another bad contract which is looking better with impact Lucic has had on team

2020
Frolik for a 4th round pick - win
- was able to move Frolik out at full salary and get a pick back when he should have had to give up a pick for team to take on contract
3rd round pick for Gustafsson - loss
- high cost to acquire pp quarterback rental which failed to provide playoff success
4th round pick for Forbort - loss
- another depth acquisition which didn't help get us playoff success

Analysis - Treliving did some excellent work in his first coupld of years, had an awful 2017, but has been very middling since the Hamilton for Lindholm/Hanifin swap in 2018. Lots of picks sent out with very little value to show in return (asset wise and playoff success) and has subsequently hurt depth of team's prospect pool. He deserves credit for the good moves early on, but a pretty mixed bag after that.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

3rd round pick for Gustafsson - loss
- high cost to acquire pp quarterback rental which failed to provide playoff success

Wat?


If that deal worked out, that's a steal.

[Poe969]

But it didn't work out...

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

While I was a much bigger skeptic of the trade at the time (I had no faith that Lindholm would be as good as he has been here), and subsequently changed my tune, I still consider the Hanifin / Lindholm deal a draw. Hamilton was, and is, a top tier #1 defenseman, and Fox is looking like he'll be at least as good as Hanifin, and probably better. They had to trade Fox, but in terms of assets given up vs assets received it's probably roughly a wash.

I agree the results have been middling since that trade, but - leaving aside the philosophical question about whether it makes sense to judge trades in hindsight or whether they made sense at the time they were made - it's more that he hasn't taken any big swings at anyone. There wasn't much chance of anyone getting a major win out of Neal for Lucic and everything else has barely been noteworthy. Hard to say whether that's something you hold against him or not - could be he has missed opportunities to improve the team, could be he has avoided potential bad deals that would have made the team worse.

[Vinny01]

When I look at Treliving’s trades the ones I really loved both involved Hamilton. The first deal felt like the perfect trade for the team at the time. They just went on an u expected run to the second round with exciting young players Gaudreau, Monahan, Ferland, Bennett all making a big impact so adding a budding top pairing Dman who was 22 was the perfect deal for the Flames at the time in my opinion.

When they moved Hamilton, Ferland, Fox for Hanifin and Lindholm I thought it was a risky deal but I was a huge fan from day 1. 3 years later those 2 players are arguably our best Dman and best forward both signed for 3 more years at less than $5M per

Both Hamilton deals were great and exciting as a fan. Some other mild wins and mild losses in there. The Hamonic deal was definitely the deal I would call a massive loss

[agulati]

We should also consider the deals that were rumored and didn’t culminate. We don’t know all the pieces of those deals. They failed for varied reasons, Treliving’s desire to not “overpay” was one of them. In hindsight was it an overpayment?

The Kadri deal, out of Tre’s control. The Zucker deal, out of Tre’s control (and honestly not sure if we would have been better)

Stone would have been good to have though.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

While I was a much bigger skeptic of the trade at the time (I had no faith that Lindholm would be as good as he has been here), and subsequently changed my tune, I still consider the Hanifin / Lindholm deal a draw. Hamilton was, and is, a top tier #1 defenseman, and Fox is looking like he'll be at least as good as Hanifin, and probably better. They had to trade Fox, but in terms of assets given up vs assets received it's probably roughly a wash...

I think that that is still a win, though. The results of every trade is not always a zero-sum game, and I think this is one of those few instances where both teams came out really well because of it.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

While I was a much bigger skeptic of the trade at the time (I had no faith that Lindholm would be as good as he has been here), and subsequently changed my tune, I still consider the Hanifin / Lindholm deal a draw. Hamilton was, and is, a top tier #1 defenseman, and Fox is looking like he'll be at least as good as Hanifin, and probably better. They had to trade Fox, but in terms of assets given up vs assets received it's probably roughly a wash.

I agree the results have been middling since that trade, but - leaving aside the philosophical question about whether it makes sense to judge trades in hindsight or whether they made sense at the time they were made - it's more that he hasn't taken any big swings at anyone. There wasn't much chance of anyone getting a major win out of Neal for Lucic and everything else has barely been noteworthy. Hard to say whether that's something you hold against him or not - could be he has missed opportunities to improve the team, could be he has avoided potential bad deals that would have made the team worse.

Lindholm trade is a win though because Dougie is a UFA this year. Ferland left right away too. Assume we get a 2nd for Fox it’s a win no question. Hamilton probably wouldn’t make this team good enough and could demand 8 to 9 mil and more than likely not resign. Might get a good haul for him at the deadline but not enough to lose hanifin and Lindholm

Hamonic trade kills treliving trade history. It’s actually very good other than that 1. The losses are mainly minor trades

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Neal for Lucic - draw trending towards win
- bad signing resulted in bad fit swapped out for another bad contract which is looking better with impact Lucic has had on team

I think this is a clear win. The Flames turned a useless player on-and-off the ice into cap relief, a contributing member of the roster, and a third-round pick.

That's a win.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Lindholm trade is a win though because Dougie is a UFA this year. Ferland left right away too. Assume we get a 2nd for Fox it’s a win no question. Hamilton probably wouldn’t make this team good enough and could demand 8 to 9 mil and more than likely not resign. Might get a good haul for him at the deadline but not enough to lose hanifin and Lindholm

Hamonic trade kills treliving trade history. It’s actually very good other than that 1. The losses are mainly minor trades

Well Carolina got two 2nds for Fox, so I think we can hopefully assume we also would have got that.

[Da_Chief]

Are you doing a trade analysis and/or draft analysis?

For trade you have to look at the value he got in return, not who they picked, otherwise you have to see who else was picked around that pick to see if its a "win".

GMs trade players for late picks and picks for late trades all the time, especially during trade deadline. In his case, they havent worked out for him much. But I'll call it a wash.

For me how did he do in big trades?

Picking up Hamilton was a good move. Even though it was a deep draft. Passing grade

Would NYR trade Fox for Lindholm or Hanifin? don't thinks so
Would Car trade Dougie for Lindholm or Hanifin? don't think so
Top it up losing Ferland in that trade too. Thats a middling grade at best if not a fail one.

Hamonic for that package was a big fail.

So 1 win, 1 tie, 1 loss. Par with this current group and his tenure, just average.

[1qqaaz]

I think this thread is discussing the wrong thing. Treliving's trade history is fine, more or less. Not good, but better than Feaster's. He spent draft picks when he shouldn't have. The rebuild was ended too early.
The Lindholm trade comes down to whether you count the Fox situation and contract extensions as part of the deal. I tend to consider the trade a win (even though I hated it at the time).

Drafting and developing has been pretty good. But I think that comes from other Flames staff who have been here and will continue to be here. And really, this is our only source of hope as fans. It's important, and it's the one area that has been good. But the Flames still haven't drafted/developed a goalie in decades. Other than the Boltmann pick, I liked the most recent draft.

The real problems?
The UFA free agency signings are really where the problems are.
It's also rather annoying that he didn't acquire Lehner, who was available three times, or Stone, who is having a monster of a year. Guys like Miller and O'Reilly moved for reasonable prices. There are several near misses (see Kadri) that I don't give Treliving credit for since the trades didn't happen. The core was kept together for way too long, even after repeated failure. Monahan should have been traded a while ago. Now he's had back to back 55 point (in pace) seasons.
Another big problem is that he has hired bad coaches. But at least we have Sutter now.

[Red]

Winning a trade is pointless if it doesn't help the team. It's not about winning trades, it's about making the team better.

Treliving failed to improve the top line. Be it a new C, a RW or whatever. Whiffed on many potential deals
He failed to deliver on his own vision of a big team that's hard to play against.
For the first 5 years he failed to bring in a #1 goalie.

The team looked outmatched in eery playoff series since the vancouver series. The team was pretty much embarrassed in all those series and were only able to win 4 games in total. 2 of them last year. One against a cold Dallas team, the other one where Talbot stole it.

I dont remember how good they were in the 2015 Ducks playoffs when they won one game vs the Ducks. But I do remember the only other win they had, game 1 vs Colorado. A nice shut out where they were outplayed in most of the game.

So there. The team's playoff performance have shown a new level of ineptitude over the last 6 years. And Treliving did nothing to fix it.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

While I was a much bigger skeptic of the trade at the time (I had no faith that Lindholm would be as good as he has been here), and subsequently changed my tune, I still consider the Hanifin / Lindholm deal a draw. Hamilton was, and is, a top tier #1 defenseman, and Fox is looking like he'll be at least as good as Hanifin, and probably better. They had to trade Fox, but in terms of assets given up vs assets received it's probably roughly a wash.

I agree the results have been middling since that trade, but - leaving aside the philosophical question about whether it makes sense to judge trades in hindsight or whether they made sense at the time they were made - it's more that he hasn't taken any big swings at anyone. There wasn't much chance of anyone getting a major win out of Neal for Lucic and everything else has barely been noteworthy. Hard to say whether that's something you hold against him or not - could be he has missed opportunities to improve the team, could be he has avoided potential bad deals that would have made the team worse.

The Fox factor is hard to pin down...did CAR end up with a compensatory pick?

We still have 4 more years each of Hanifin and Lindholm at very good value, whereas Hamilton's 3 seasons of value or almost up. No doubt Hamilton is the best player, but he's not exactly Chris Pronger.

I think it's a win for both teams, but a bigger win for CGY.

[FlamesAddiction]

Forbort and Gustafsson were two of our better players down the stretch. That pairing was worth what we paid as far as rentals go. If you fail to advance, every rental is a bad trade, but I don't think that is fair.

Both trades involving Hamilton were good. Hamonic and Smith were bad. Everything else is a bunch of meh sprinkled with woof.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

It's also rather annoying that he didn't acquire Lehner, who was available three times, or Stone, who is having a monster of a year...

I don't get this. Lehner is fine, but he is hardly worth pining for. And as has been established multiple times over the past two years, there was no path to seeing the Stone trade through. One could argue that the only reason VGK pulled it off is because of how they came out of the expansion draft the previous year.

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[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't get this. Lehner is fine, but he is hardly worth pining for. And as has been established multiple times over the past two years, there was no path to seeing the Stone trade through. One could argue that the only reason VGK pulled it off is because of how they came out of the expansion draft the previous year.

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If we are talking about goalies that were right there for the taking, Jaroslav Halak comes to mind. I don't know if there is a more underrated goalie over the past 7 or 8 years, and he has been available at least 3 or 4 times. His avaerage cap hit over that time was roughly just under $4 million per year. At 35, he is still at the top of his game.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't get this. Lehner is fine, but he is hardly worth pining for. And as has been established multiple times over the past two years, there was no path to seeing the Stone trade through. One could argue that the only reason VGK pulled it off is because of how they came out of the expansion draft the previous year.

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No, you repeating this over and over is not establishing anything.

There is nothing other that speculation on your part that Stone wasnt going to sign here. In fact, if that were the case and it was known to the insiders, as it would have been, Treliving wouldnt be in on that until the last hour. I mean we had his brother here to verify things. Treliving being in on the deal till the last hour tells us that the deal was close. Otherwise Ottawa would have told him to beat it early on. The "too much for a rental" reasoning is nothing more than an excuse for another failed deal.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Wat?


If that deal worked out, that's a steal.

Lol it didn’t work out

Also Gust is garbage. Benched several times by the flyers already and they suck on defense

[btimbit]

Most of the losses are pretty minor or inconsequential;

BUT

The Hamonic and Lazar deals aren't just bad. They're absolutely terrible.