The biggest thing that went wrong is that several key players did not take the next step, including Johnny and Monahan, leaving the club with best players that are consistently outplayed by the other team's best players.
To me that's the biggest factor, coupled with Sam not becoming an impact player, that has wrecked this edition of the club and why some sort of reset needs to happen.
The closest similar situation is the Flyers realizing that Carter/Richards weren't going to lead them to a cup. So they moved on and moved them.
That's what I think needs to happen here.
All valid, but does that turn things around though? Mild mannered and declining Gio would still be here, along with the rest of the team that has way too few "hate to lose" types.
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To me the reason this team is not good enough comes down to the core players not being as good as many thought they were. Johnny was top 6 in scoring twice in his first 5 years in the league but no where near that in the last couple of years. Monahan went from elevating from 60pts to point per game to falling back to under 50pt pace. In his 20/21 year old season Tkachuk had 34 goals and 76pts playing on the 2nd line. Elias Lindholm appeared to be that missing piece and completed their big 4 upfront by becoming a near point per game all situations player. The Flames also had a franchise Dman who seemed to keep getting better with age.
The Flames top players are just not good enough. They showed signs of being an elite team and guys like Gaudreau and Monahan potentially had another gear but that just doesn’t seem to be the case. The core of this team seems to be regressing.
Jeff Carter peaked with a 46 goal, 84 point season and then started to decline - down to a 36 goal, 66 point season.
Mike Richards peaked at 80 points, 30 goals, and then declined down to 23 goals, 66 points.
Johnny peaked at 36/99 and then has come down to 18/58 points last season (70 games only, so similar production overall)
Sean Monahan peaked at 34 goals, 82 points, and then came down to 22 goals/48 points .
I see it being quite similar no?
Maybe on a pure points basis. I'd still be happy with a 36 goal season from Gaudreau and I don't see it happening again. Richards brought a lot more than points. Situationally similar, but the impact they provided and still getting traded, I don't think it's the same. I'd take "dry island" era Richards over Monahan without a second thought.
All valid, but does that turn things around though? Mild mannered and declining Gio would still be here, along with the rest of the team that has way too few "hate to lose" types.
I agree that Gio is declining, not sure I agree he's mild mannered.
As I've said before:
I like the goalie
I like the d
I now like the coach
I strongly dislike the forward group
Maybe on a pure points basis. I'd still be happy with a 36 goal season from Gaudreau and I don't see it happening again. Richards brought a lot more than points. Situationally similar, but the impact they provided and still getting traded, I don't think it's the same. I'd take "dry island" era Richards over Monahan without a second thought.
I think the Flyers traded them earlier and thus probably were able to get more value out of the players then the Flames will get out of their pair.
I'm not saying the players are the same. But the dynamics of the situation are similar.
In the "two top players are not going to get it done" sense, yes, agreed. The Flyers trade took way more balls than trading Gaudreau and Monahan would imo.
The biggest thing that went wrong is that several key players did not take the next step, including Johnny and Monahan, leaving the club with best players that are consistently outplayed by the other team's best players.
To me that's the biggest factor, coupled with Sam not becoming an impact player, that has wrecked this edition of the club and why some sort of reset needs to happen.
The closest similar situation is the Flyers realizing that Carter/Richards weren't going to lead them to a cup. So they moved on and moved them.
That's what I think needs to happen here.
But its not like they've never performed well at the NHL level, there was a time they were highly effective if not dominant as top line players. What happened? It's like they never mentally recovered from the Colorado series. It's really strange to see the top 2 players fall of a cliff like they have.
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A few weeks after crashing head-first into the boards (denting his helmet and being unable to move for a little while) following a hit from behind by Bob Errey, the Calgary Flames player explains:
"I was like Christ, lying on my back, with my arms outstretched, crucified"
-- Frank Musil - Early January 1994
But its not like they've never performed well at the NHL level, there was a time they were highly effective if not dominant as top line players. What happened? It's like they never mentally recovered from the Colorado series. It's really strange to see the top 2 players fall of a cliff like they have.
They've actually never shown they can take the next step when it really matters.
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But that does not at all account for why they are struggling so mightily now.
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I think it's pretty simple. For me, what accounts for this drop off is the fact the league has figured out that Monahan can't do anything but cram home garbage in the middle of the slot.
Since he has no compete level whatsoever, all you have to do is take that away from him, and now your top line consists of Gaudreau and two bums who can't carry the puck, pass the puck, drive the net or retrieve the puck.
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Last edited by Hot_Flatus; 03-23-2021 at 01:37 PM.
But its not like they've never performed well at the NHL level, there was a time they were highly effective if not dominant as top line players. What happened? It's like they never mentally recovered from the Colorado series. It's really strange to see the top 2 players fall of a cliff like they have.
Teams adjusted and they haven't been able to re-adjust.
And likely the dizzying heights of that one season are proving to be more a blip than the reality of who they are.
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The biggest thing that went wrong is that several key players did not take the next step, including Johnny and Monahan, leaving the club with best players that are consistently outplayed by the other team's best players.
To me that's the biggest factor, coupled with Sam not becoming an impact player, that has wrecked this edition of the club and why some sort of reset needs to happen.
The closest similar situation is the Flyers realizing that Carter/Richards weren't going to lead them to a cup. So they moved on and moved them.
That's what I think needs to happen here.
This isn't some occurrence that just randomly materialized though. Most fans that I know, were highly critical of Monahan, Bennett, Gaudreau well before the last 1.5 seasons. For me, it's squarely on Treliving for not evaluating the fact that a guy like Monahan can't be going up against the other top Center's in the division, and that a guy like Bennett was/is a lost cause, that Gaudreau needs a play driving center. The signs were all there thanks to repeated disappearing acts year after year.
You point out Carter/Richards and the big difference there is that the GM of that team made a ballsy decision to move them while they still had value. He evaluated his players and was willing to see them as inadequate. Carter turned into Voracek, Couturier and Cousins. Richards turned into Simmonds and Schenn.
For these reason alone, Treliving is a bust of a GM in my books.
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Last edited by Hot_Flatus; 03-23-2021 at 02:02 PM.
This isn't some occurrence that just randomly materialized though. Most fans that I know, were highly critical of Monahan, Bennett, Gaudreau well before the last 1.5 seasons. For me, it's squarely on Treliving for not evaluating the fact that a guy like Monahan can't be going up against the other top Center's in the division, and that a guy like Bennett was/is a lost cause, that Gaudreau needs a play driving center.
You point out Carter/Richards and the big difference there is that the GM of that team made a ballsy decision to move them while they still had value. He evaluated his players and was willing to see them as inadequate. Carter turned into Voracek, Couturier and Cousins. Richards turned into Simmonds and Schenn.
For these reason alone, Treliving is a bust of a GM in my books.
TBF, Carter and Richards practically forced the Flyers' hand. And Holmgren's Flyers won at about the same rate before and after that trade (and after he got promoted out of GM as well).
