2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I find Johnny can’t seem to beat dmen wide anymore. If it’s close and he may have a step on the dman he won’t risk getting hammered into boards. He’s become predictable as he almost always button hooks and looks for passing lanes. Because he doesn’t have a great shot he I limited offensively. Great puck handler great vision and great first step but not a great shot and not great top end speed. Because he is so soft he struggles to fight of hooks and any kind of interference. He’s still great offensively but not elite. Compared to Kane but Kane has a lethal shot and it creates space for him. He scores with anyone and monahan types are good enough for guys that good. Johnny is just a few steps below guys like Kane. Problem with Johnny is if he isn’t scoring he’s god awful in his own end. He basically is a pp specialist these days

2 guys are about to break the bank. Tkachuk and Johnny. Tough to let them go but I say 1 has to go and Johnny would be my vote. Others can maybe go too but I still think this team is good and has lots to work with but we need a bit of a mix up of the core at minimum

This years draft is a bit concerning but we need a top pick. Move Johnny for some prospects and picks and reevaluate next year

Love to see Gio chase a cup too. Would be good for both us and him

See this the problem right here, Gaudreau isn’t a 1st overall pick, he has flaws. But he’s also an elite scorer up there with some of the leagues’ absolute best. He shouldn’t be relied on to beat guys wide or expected to score from the half boards like Patrick Kane. He’s an elite scorer on the rush, maybe the best in the league, so this organization needed to find him linemates who could foster the growth of that ability.

Opposition defenses started to trap more and clog the neutral zone up and double team Gaudreau. Ok, credit to them, they shut that line down. So what does management do about that to adjust? What exactly have they done to help?

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

See this the problem right here, Gaudreau isn’t a 1st overall pick, he has flaws. But he’s also an elite scorer up there with some of the leagues’ absolute best. He shouldn’t be relied on to beat guys wide or expected to score from the half boards like Patrick Kane. He’s an elite scorer on the rush, maybe the best in the league, so this organization needed to find him linemates who could foster the growth of that ability.

Opposition defenses started to trap more and clog the neutral zone up and double team Gaudreau. Ok, credit to them, they shut that line down. So what does management do about that to adjust? What exactly have they done to help?

Explain to me what you see Johnny resigning for? I don’t care what pick he was a decade ago if he wants 9 I want more.

I also don’t know why anyone would want to give him 9 and that contract ends when he’s 35. Can you imagine how bad he will be if he losses another step? And he will because it’s clear he doesn’t put the work in during the off season. Guys with his size better put the work in if they want to have a 15 year career.

Time to move on.

[dino7c]

It would be nice to see Gaudreau play with top end talent. He has been playing all season with a NHL tweener and Monahan who can only do one thing well (and he isn't doing it even)

If Gaudreau gets the right situation he is gonna light up the league again IMO. This is the guy that has dominated international tournaments.


Its probably not hard to shut a guy down if he is the only one on his line doing anything.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

The physical, dump and chase game was never going to work with Gaudreau because he has his own set of flaws. But the things he can do, are pretty spectacular and he isn’t going to be able to accomplish these things under the current circumstances.

It can - but it takes the right combo of linemates to make it happen - two guys who can (1) hit and hit often to (2) create space for "the puck retrieval Johnny" to grab the puck so (3) the "creative Johnny" can do Johnny Hockey things. But none of that happens for the most part.

Johnny won't engage on the boards and that's mostly OK as he just doesn't have the size of physicality to do so (but other small players have....?). But Sean and "the utility RW" haven't fed him the way they should. Coaching? Maybe. Just cashing a fat paycheque? More like it, so it seems.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

It can - but it takes the right combo of linemates to make it happen - two guys who can (1) hit and hit often to (2) create space for "the puck retrieval Johnny" to grab the puck so (3) the "creative Johnny" can do Johnny Hockey things. But none of that happens for the most part.

Johnny won't engage on the boards and that's mostly OK as he just doesn't have the size of physicality to do so (but other small players have....?). But Sean and "the utility RW" haven't fed him the way they should. Coaching? Maybe. Just cashing a fat paycheque? More like it, so it seems.

Yeah we've seen him do more with less.

I just don't think he gives a crap. Not just him, a lot of the team

[Squirrel]

It is simply overdue to move on from Johnny and Monny. Talented but too small and not willing/able to play the tougher style needed for playoff success. They both fade when the games get big.
Bennett should not have played again after the "looking for a change of scenery". A TEAM with a solid core, pride and clear identity would not have tolerated that attitude in the locker room. Trade him now for whatever you can get.

I'll leave Gio alone because it is just age catching up with him.

The team chemistry does not seem to be right and hasn't for a long time. It's addition by subtraction like when the Oilers needed to move out Hall and then Eberle to change the atmoshpere around the team. Not that they were magically better but it seemed to get them more focused on team hockey rather than acting like a bunch of overpaid spoiled brats.

[Bonded]

It is too bad that both Gaudreau and Monahan have looked like crap. Might get a meh trade return now.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by dino7c

It would be nice to see Gaudreau play with top end talent. He has been playing all season with a NHL tweener and Monahan who can only do one thing well (and he isn't doing it even)

If Gaudreau gets the right situation he is gonna light up the league again IMO. This is the guy that has dominated international tournaments.


Its probably not hard to shut a guy down if he is the only one on his line doing anything.

IMO that ship has sailed. Treliving blew his chance to build around Johnny. Unless Johnny does the team a favour and signs a reasonable deal it’s time to move on. I just don’t see 30+ Johnny dominating the nhl. He has lost a step no question one more and he can become very ineffective very quickly

Too many rumours about health and lifestyle tells me he won’t age well. Time to move on. Not holding on to him because he lit up the 2016 World Cup. That was 5 years ago. Nobody is suggesting Johnny was never a great player

He’s clearly lost a step. When he first came into the league he was famous for blowing by dmen and ripping around the net for wrap arounds. He was faster in the past but those plays are non existent. Blame monahan all you want but 9 mill+ players should be able to create offensive with a lessor caliber center. Monahan isn’t great but he was good enough before. Johnny is slipping and it isn’t shocking. Superstars that play 15 years don’t just show up for training camp and announce they are here. They put in 8 hour shifts 6 days a week all summer.

[Mindtravellee]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

IMO that ship has sailed. Treliving blew his chance to build around Johnny. Unless Johnny does the team a favour and signs a reasonable deal it’s time to move on. I just don’t see 30+ Johnny dominating the nhl. He has lost a step no question one more and he can become very ineffective very quickly

Too many rumours about health and lifestyle tells me he won’t age well. Time to move on. Not holding on to him because he lit up the 2016 World Cup. That was 5 years ago. Nobody is suggesting Johnny was never a great player

He’s clearly lost a step. When he first came into the league he was famous for blowing by dmen and ripping around the net for wrap arounds. He was faster in the past but those plays are non existent. Blame monahan all you want but 9 mill+ players should be able to create offensive with a lessor caliber center. Monahan isn’t great but he was good enough before. Johnny is slipping and it isn’t shocking. Superstars that play 15 years don’t just show up for training camp and announce they are here. They put in 8 hour shifts 6 days a week all summer.

Maybe he's bulked too much to protect himself and needs to relook at his build? Drop some kg

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Mindtravellee

Maybe he's bulked too much to protect himself and needs to relook at his build? Drop some kg

Bulking on skittles and ham n cheese sandwiches lol

[Nelson]

At this point, I would reunite Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm despite believing Lindholm is the team's best centre. I have two reasons:

1. Gaudreau and Monahan need to score to increase their values for the offseason (their values might not increase because teams will do their homework, but it is worth a shot) and

2. At this point, the team is very unlikely to make the playoffs, so you might as well try something different out of desperation.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by New Era

For total points scored from 2018-2021 Monahan ranks 24th.

5-on-5 scoring from 2018-2021.

The "Superstars"

1. McDavid - 172 points
2. Draisaitl - 168 points
3. MacKinnon - 144 points
5. Matthews - 134 points
10. Crosby - 120 points

The "CP Favorites" or players that have been mentioned as replacements for Monahan.

6. Barkov - 129 points
12. O'Reilly - 118 points
14. Eichel - 115 points
15. Malkin - 113 points
16. Barzal - 112 points
21. Zibanejad - 105 points
26. Petersson - 101 points
27. Lindholm - 100 points
28. Kuznetsov - 99 points
29. Schenn - 97 points
33. Horvat - 94 points
35. - Bergeron - 94 points
36. Krejci - 94 points
37. Duchene - 92 points

Sean "terrible at 5-on-5" Monahan?

24th with 103 points.

Hopefully this puts an end to this stupid narrative he doesn't score 5-on-5. If anything, Monahan doesn't score enough on the PP to keep up with some of those peers he gets compared to. Take "Simple Jack" Eichel. 14th in 5-on-5, but 7th in PP scoring! "Boring Sean Monahan" is Mr. Consistency in scoring, staying at 24th in almost every measure. There in lies the problem with Monahan. He's not flashy and he's consistent in his output, so the fans here who so badly want someone to complete with McDavid take out their angst and frustration on the guy who just gets the job done.

I looked it up myself and Sean Monahan is 115th in 5-on-5 points since the dismantling by the Avs and removing the Flames elite season.

Behind legends like Jordan Eberle, Zach Hyman & Darnell Nurse.

Interestingly, Monahan and Mangiapane both have 44 even strength points in 101 games over the timespan.

Mr. Consistency is no longer Mr. Consistent.
Maybe and hopefully he can get back to his old self but let's stop pretending he's the same player.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I looked it up myself and Sean Monahan is 115th in 5-on-5 points since the dismantling by the Avs and removing the Flames elite season.

Behind legends like Jordan Eberle, Zach Hyman & Darnell Nurse.

Interestingly, Monahan and Mangiapane both have 44 even strength points in 101 games over the timespan.

Mr. Consistency is no longer Mr. Consistent.
Maybe and hopefully he can get back to his old self but let's stop pretending he's the same player.

I wonder if one his 800 injuries is messing with his shot. Doesn't look the same as before.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Explain to me what you see Johnny resigning for? I don’t care what pick he was a decade ago if he wants 9 I want more.

I also don’t know why anyone would want to give him 9 and that contract ends when he’s 35. Can you imagine how bad he will be if he losses another step? And he will because it’s clear he doesn’t put the work in during the off season. Guys with his size better put the work in if they want to have a 15 year career.

Time to move on.

Who said anything about re-signing Gaudreau? The window to win with this core was during Gio’s “prime” and Gaudreau’s second contract and now both look to be just about over.

What I’m saying is that Johnny Gaudreau is an excellent player for what he is, he’s one of the very best offensive players in the league especially on the rush and I think the Flames could’ve won with him had management insulated this team with better pieces.

Johnny Gaudreau much like Jarome Iginla and much like Theo Fleury cannot be the team’s cornerstone piece. This organization for decades have relied too heavily on wingers to win it all and it turns out to be fool’s gold every time. They failed Johnny just like they failed Iggy.

When did the Flames win the Cup? When they had an elite 1-2 punch up the middle with Doug Gilmour and Joe Nieuwendyk. Throw Joel Otto in there too. They had a young Fleury and Mullen and Loob and etc to round out a very strong group of forwards. Over the decades the Flames have had strong winger depth, but no where close to the same centers of Gilmour-Nieuwendyk-Otto. That’s the difference.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

It can - but it takes the right combo of linemates to make it happen - two guys who can (1) hit and hit often to (2) create space for "the puck retrieval Johnny" to grab the puck so (3) the "creative Johnny" can do Johnny Hockey things. But none of that happens for the most part.

Johnny won't engage on the boards and that's mostly OK as he just doesn't have the size of physicality to do so (but other small players have....?). But Sean and "the utility RW" haven't fed him the way they should. Coaching? Maybe. Just cashing a fat paycheque? More like it, so it seems.

Guys who can hit and hit often would maybe help with their forecheck game. But the bread and butter of Gaudreau and Monahan’s game is their production off the rush. They thrive together when defenses aren’t set.

So in my opinion, they could’ve really used a winger who’s elite along the boards defensively, who can stop the cycle, transition it from dzone to ozone effectively to take pressure off Gaudreau.

Although if they really wanted to change the dynamics, they should’ve found a way to upgrade on Monahan. Your centerman should generally always be your best puck distributor and Darryl Sutter has said much of the same and history has also backed that up. When your winger is your best playmaker and puck distributor, you essentially cut the ice in half and the opposite winger is less of a factor. Monahan should’ve been upgraded a long time ago, but this organization decided to go another direction and they’re paying dearly for it now.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

IMO that ship has sailed. Treliving blew his chance to build around Johnny. Unless Johnny does the team a favour and signs a reasonable deal it’s time to move on. I just don’t see 30+ Johnny dominating the nhl. He has lost a step no question one more and he can become very ineffective very quickly

Too many rumours about health and lifestyle tells me he won’t age well. Time to move on. Not holding on to him because he lit up the 2016 World Cup. That was 5 years ago. Nobody is suggesting Johnny was never a great player

He’s clearly lost a step. When he first came into the league he was famous for blowing by dmen and ripping around the net for wrap arounds. He was faster in the past but those plays are non existent. Blame monahan all you want but 9 mill+ players should be able to create offensive with a lessor caliber center. Monahan isn’t great but he was good enough before. Johnny is slipping and it isn’t shocking. Superstars that play 15 years don’t just show up for training camp and announce they are here. They put in 8 hour shifts 6 days a week all summer.

Clearly lost a step? How many breakaways has Gaudreau scored on this season?

This is the problem I’m trying to point out and it was the same problem for over a decade with Iggy. When people expect your wingers to be your lone driving offensive force, you’re doomed from the start.

Winners in this league are built up the middle. Gaudreau very well could’ve been the Phil Kessel to an Evgeni Malkin. So this organization had its Kessel, where’s their Evgeni Malkin? Hell I would’ve taken an Evgeni Kuznetsov or Nicklas Backstrom.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Guys who can hit and hit often would maybe help with their forecheck game. But the bread and butter of Gaudreau and Monahan’s game is their production off the rush. They thrive together when defenses aren’t set.

So in my opinion, they could’ve really used a winger who’s elite along the boards defensively, who can stop the cycle, transition it from dzone to ozone effectively to take pressure off Gaudreau.

Although if they really wanted to change the dynamics, they should’ve found a way to upgrade on Monahan. Your centerman should generally always be your best puck distributor and Darryl Sutter has said much of the same and history has also backed that up. When your winger is your best playmaker and puck distributor, you essentially cut the ice in half and the opposite winger is less of a factor. Monahan should’ve been upgraded a long time ago, but this organization decided to go another direction and they’re paying dearly for it now.

The upgrade on Monahan was supposed to be Bennett. I’m not sure what better C was available through trade since it became apparent that plan wasn’t panning out.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Yeah, Bennett ####ting the bed really hurt this team. He turns into the player everyone expected him to be and this team is great. Imagine a center the caliber of Draisaitl backed by Monahan and Backlund. That would be a dream. The other thing that killed the team was Treliving's mistake of going after Neal, and then turning that mistake into a bigger one with Lucic's contract. Two outcomes that crippled the team.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by New Era

Yeah, Bennett ####ting the bed really hurt this team. He turns into the player everyone expected him to be and this team is great. Imagine a center the caliber of Draisaitl backed by Monahan and Backlund. That would be a dream. The other thing that killed the team was Treliving's mistake of going after Neal, and then turning that mistake into a bigger one with Lucic's contract. Two outcomes that crippled the team.

Agree that Neal was a huge mistake, but totally disagree he turned it into a bigger one with trading him for Lucic. He got cap savings, a 3rd round pick, and a guy who actually cares to play on the team. They're in a lot better shape than had they not traded Neal.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The upgrade on Monahan was supposed to be Bennett. I’m not sure what better C was available through trade since it became apparent that plan wasn’t panning out.

Bennett was a mistake from the start. The troubles were there right from the beginning, but we as fans didn’t see it because of shiny toy syndrome. He had some good tools, but no toolbox. He doesn’t have the game of an elite NHL centerman and his competitiveness and edge actually hurts him in the regular season. If the Flames were annual playoff contenders, maybe the Flames could’ve gotten more out of Bennett, but alas, ultimately just a pile of nice games in a bunch of short playoff stints.