2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I looked back at Monahan's last 100 regular season games. Just 17 even strength goals.

As the team's number one center, and a triggerman no less, that's just not good enough.

I agree. It hasnt been good enough. Yet he has still managed to stay in the upper end of guys at his position.

I dont care if a guy scores his goals at ES, on the PP, between the legs, or while whispering in the other goalies ear that his wife is bisexual and he found while he was with her in bed. (Geez... being correct takes the humor out of that line).

They all count the same.

Im guessing Sutter is very happy with Monnys defensive game....so now he has to figure out how to get SM back to his offensive ways that he has shown to have far longer than he has been struggling with it.

[Sec214]

Sell Sell Sell Sell Sell Sell

BUBBLE TEAM

[Ashes]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I agree. It hasnt been good enough. Yet he has still managed to stay in the upper end of guys at his position.

I dont care if a guy scores his goals at ES, on the PP, between the legs, or while whispering in the other goalies ear that his wife is bisexual and he found while he was with her in bed. (Geez... being correct takes the humor out of that line).

They all count the same.

Im guessing Sutter is very happy with Monnys defensive game....so now he has to figure out how to get SM back to his offensive ways that he has shown to have far longer than he has been struggling with it.

I see what you're saying about how they all count no matter how you score them.. but you have to acknowledge that Monahan and his line have been getting absolutely dominated 5v5 for years now. So I disagree.. If you're going to try make the argument that Monahan is in the upper tier of Center's in the game right now, you HAVE to take into account his 5v5 points versus special teams.

And sorry but I don't see what you see with these dramatic improvements to his defensive game.. not even close, he's too slow to ever be more than an average defender, and he's scared to carry the puck (as a Center!)

Can't help but think Pat and Will were right a few weeks ago when they said 100% Tre shopped him around and every other GM essentially knew he wasn't worth the price. Not trying to pile on, it's just sad to see where 23 and 13 are at right now, very frustrating. Lets just hope they re-invent themselves at 5v5 under Sutter for these last 24 games

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashes

I see what you're saying about how they all count no matter how you score them.. but you have to acknowledge that Monahan and his line have been getting absolutely dominated 5v5 for years now. So I disagree.. If you're going to try make the argument that Monahan is in the upper tier of Center's in the game right now, you HAVE to take into account his 5v5 points versus special teams.

Absolutely dominated for YEARS now at 5v5!

Which is 100% false.

Here are Gaudreau and Monahan Together at 5v5

16-17:
Corsi For: 52.3%
XGF%: 50.7

GF: 34
GA: 31
GF%: 52.3%

17-18:
Corsi For: 55%
XGF%: 53.41

GF: 54
GA: 37
GF%: 59.3%

18-19:

Corsi For: 53.8%
XGF%: 53.1%

GF: 63
GA: 49
GF%: 56.3%

19-20:

Corsi For: 51.2%
XGF%: 49.3%

GF: 34
GA: 36
GF%: 48.6%

20-21:

Corsi For: 48.9%
XGF%: 50.8%

GF: 13
GA: 11
GF%: 54.2%

The only season they were bad was 19-20. And even then they ended up being -2 in GF vs GA at 5v5.

This year they haven't produced a ton, but they've been stout defensively, and that's with a rotating door of RWs playing with them all season long.

Every other season outside of 19-20 they have been positive in Corsi For, xGF% and Actual Goals For at 5v5.

[Jason14h]

Don’t let facts get in the way of what my drunken eyes see during loses!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Ashes

I see what you're saying about how they all count no matter how you score them.. but you have to acknowledge that Monahan and his line have been getting absolutely dominated 5v5 for years now. So I disagree.. If you're going to try make the argument that Monahan is in the upper tier of Center's in the game right now, you HAVE to take into account his 5v5 points versus special teams.

And sorry but I don't see what you see with these dramatic improvements to his defensive game.. not even close, he's too slow to ever be more than an average defender, and he's scared to carry the puck (as a Center!)

Can't help but think Pat and Will were right a few weeks ago when they said 100% Tre shopped him around and every other GM essentially knew he wasn't worth the price. Not trying to pile on, it's just sad to see where 23 and 13 are at right now, very frustrating. Lets just hope they re-invent themselves at 5v5 under Sutter for these last 24 games

For total points scored from 2018-2021 Monahan ranks 24th.

5-on-5 scoring from 2018-2021.

The "Superstars"

1. McDavid - 172 points
2. Draisaitl - 168 points
3. MacKinnon - 144 points
5. Matthews - 134 points
10. Crosby - 120 points

The "CP Favorites" or players that have been mentioned as replacements for Monahan.

6. Barkov - 129 points
12. O'Reilly - 118 points
14. Eichel - 115 points
15. Malkin - 113 points
16. Barzal - 112 points
21. Zibanejad - 105 points
26. Petersson - 101 points
27. Lindholm - 100 points
28. Kuznetsov - 99 points
29. Schenn - 97 points
33. Horvat - 94 points
35. - Bergeron - 94 points
36. Krejci - 94 points
37. Duchene - 92 points

Sean "terrible at 5-on-5" Monahan?

24th with 103 points.

Hopefully this puts an end to this stupid narrative he doesn't score 5-on-5. If anything, Monahan doesn't score enough on the PP to keep up with some of those peers he gets compared to. Take "Simple Jack" Eichel. 14th in 5-on-5, but 7th in PP scoring! "Boring Sean Monahan" is Mr. Consistency in scoring, staying at 24th in almost every measure. There in lies the problem with Monahan. He's not flashy and he's consistent in his output, so the fans here who so badly want someone to complete with McDavid take out their angst and frustration on the guy who just gets the job done.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Johnny Gaudreau is what he is, he’s an ultra elite offensive talent who can freeze defenders, break down defensive structures, draw defenders and create offense from nothing.

If that was still the case, the Flames might be in a playoff spot.

You have described what Johnny used to be. Ultra elite. He is now a decent offensive talent who occasionally freezes defenders......


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[-TC-]

I’m starting to suspect that 23’s injuries/surgeries have had a larger impact on his ability. He doesn’t seem to handle the puck or shoot as well since he got his bionic wrist.

13 needs fast guys to play with. The Flames aren’t fast.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by New Era

For total points scored from 2018-2021 Monahan ranks 24th.

5-on-5 scoring from 2018-2021.

The "Superstars"

1. McDavid - 172 points
2. Draisaitl - 168 points
3. MacKinnon - 144 points
5. Matthews - 134 points
10. Crosby - 120 points

The "CP Favorites" or players that have been mentioned as replacements for Monahan.

6. Barkov - 129 points
12. O'Reilly - 118 points
14. Eichel - 115 points
15. Malkin - 113 points
16. Barzal - 112 points
21. Zibanejad - 105 points
26. Petersson - 101 points
27. Lindholm - 100 points
28. Kuznetsov - 99 points
29. Schenn - 97 points
33. Horvat - 94 points
35. - Bergeron - 94 points
36. Krejci - 94 points
37. Duchene - 92 points

Sean "terrible at 5-on-5" Monahan?

24th with 103 points.

Hopefully this puts an end to this stupid narrative he doesn't score 5-on-5. If anything, Monahan doesn't score enough on the PP to keep up with some of those peers he gets compared to. Take "Simple Jack" Eichel. 14th in 5-on-5, but 7th in PP scoring! "Boring Sean Monahan" is Mr. Consistency in scoring, staying at 24th in almost every measure. There in lies the problem with Monahan. He's not flashy and he's consistent in his output, so the fans here who so badly want someone to complete with McDavid take out their angst and frustration on the guy who just gets the job done.

How do these ranking look since we were beat by the Avs?
It's pretty clear the core of this team has never been the same since then, so it's really only those season worth looking at.
18/19 Monahan & 20/21 Monahan are very different players (and not just him).

[Heavy Jack]

I’d be floating Tkachuk + Rittich to Toronto. They need a player like Tkachuk and he has ties to playing with Marner.


Tkachuk + Rittich + Kylington + CGY 3rd

For

Nylander + Robertson + Liljegren + TO 1st + Andersen (50% retained)

[getoverit]

Like where your trying to go but my lander has skill but can’t drive play. Got to be a better deal

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I’d be floating Tkachuk + Rittich to Toronto. They need a player like Tkachuk and he has ties to playing with Marner.


Tkachuk + Rittich + Kylington + CGY 3rd

For

Nylander + Robertson + Liljegren + TO 1st + Andersen (50% retained)

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If that was still the case, the Flames might be in a playoff spot.

You have described what Johnny used to be. Ultra elite. He is now a decent offensive talent who occasionally freezes defenders......


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It's not like Johnny Gaudreau just woke up one day and forgot how to play the game of hockey or something. Is he playing with a ton of confidence? No. But it's his mind and instincts that makes him special and that doesn't just go away.

It's pretty simple IMO, the Flames have a glaring weakness. Their best playmakers and primary puck handlers are their wingers and that's just too easy to defend because if the play is always being driven up the wall, you essentially cut the ice in half which makes defending the Flames so much easier.

Is it a surprise to anyone that the top 3 teams in this division just happen to have the best centers? Or that that every Stanley Cup winner since the 04-05 lockout have had a true #1 center or an elite 1-2 punch up the middle? This organization took too long to recognize this and haven't done enough to address this issue. If Gaudreau played with an elite #1 center who could drive play, I have no doubt that he'd probably be a perennial Art Ross Trophy candidate. He'd benefit greatly from playing off the puck more, using his deception, quick first step, hard cuts and ability to turn on a dime more.

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

It's not like Johnny Gaudreau just woke up one day and forgot how to play the game of hockey or something. Is he playing with a ton of confidence? No. But it's his mind and instincts that makes him special and that doesn't just go away.

It's pretty simple IMO, the Flames have a glaring weakness. Their best playmakers and primary puck handlers are their wingers and that's just too easy to defend because if the play is always being driven up the wall, you essentially cut the ice in half which makes defending the Flames so much easier.

You read my mind...get Eichel here


Is it a surprise to anyone that the top 3 teams in this division just happen to have the best centers? Or that that every Stanley Cup winner since the 04-05 lockout have had a true #1 center or an elite 1-2 punch up the middle? This organization took too long to recognize this and haven't done enough to address this issue. If Gaudreau played with an elite #1 center who could drive play, I have no doubt that he'd probably be a perennial Art Ross Trophy candidate. He'd benefit greatly from playing off the puck more, using his deception, quick first step, hard cuts and ability to turn on a dime more.

You read my mind...get Eichel here

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by -TC-

I’m starting to suspect that 23’s injuries/surgeries have had a larger impact on his ability. He doesn’t seem to handle the puck or shoot as well since he got his bionic wrist.

13 needs fast guys to play with. The Flames aren’t fast.

I don’t think it’s necessarily that Gaudreau needs to play with someone fast, sure it might help, but I think he can play with anyone at any speed. But what I think he needs is to not be THE GUY. He can’t be the first one the pass goes to, he needs the center to hold on to it more, exit the d-zone, navigate through the bodies and then drop it off to him so he can make plays.

Conversely, when Gaudreau always has the puck, it’s hard to just be dynamic when you’re double teamed and the boards are in the way and you only have one direction you can go or one guy you can pass to. The strategy is just too easy and predictable to defend.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by browntrout

You read my mind...get Eichel here

I’d love an Eichel-Gaudreau combo. It’d probably look a lot like Team North America when MacKinnon and Gaudreau looked like the best duo of the tournament. But I honestly have no idea what happens from here on out at this point. There’s so much up in the air from our side, their side, blah blah blah.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

It's not like Johnny Gaudreau just woke up one day and forgot how to play the game of hockey or something. Is he playing with a ton of confidence? No. But it's his mind and instincts that makes him special and that doesn't just go away.

It's pretty simple IMO, the Flames have a glaring weakness. Their best playmakers and primary puck handlers are their wingers and that's just too easy to defend because if the play is always being driven up the wall, you essentially cut the ice in half which makes defending the Flames so much easier.

Is it a surprise to anyone that the top 3 teams in this division just happen to have the best centers? Or that that every Stanley Cup winner since the 04-05 lockout have had a true #1 center or an elite 1-2 punch up the middle? This organization took too long to recognize this and haven't done enough to address this issue. If Gaudreau played with an elite #1 center who could drive play, I have no doubt that he'd probably be a perennial Art Ross Trophy candidate. He'd benefit greatly from playing off the puck more, using his deception, quick first step, hard cuts and ability to turn on a dime more.

Bang on. Most of this teams problems start at center ice.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If that was still the case, the Flames might be in a playoff spot.

You have described what Johnny used to be. Ultra elite. He is now a decent offensive talent who occasionally freezes defenders......


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Defenders “freeze” Johnny far more often.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

Bang on. Most of this teams problems start at center ice.

The confusing thing is they can look good at times which is probably confusing at times for the GM. But ultimately Monahan, Backlund and Lindholm are sort of just in the middle, like they’re ok which is probably why this team tops out as just a bubble playoff team. But if this team wants to finally hit the next level and be a Stanley Cup contender, they need a strong foundation that’s highlighted by an elite #1 center.

From the looks of it, Mackinnon, McDavid and Scheifele could be battling it out for Western Conference supremacy in the near future whereas in the previous decade it was Toews, Kopitar, Getzlaf, Thornton and Henrik Sedin. Have to get that #1 center.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by timbit

Defenders “freeze” Johnny far more often.

I find Johnny can’t seem to beat dmen wide anymore. If it’s close and he may have a step on the dman he won’t risk getting hammered into boards. He’s become predictable as he almost always button hooks and looks for passing lanes. Because he doesn’t have a great shot he I limited offensively. Great puck handler great vision and great first step but not a great shot and not great top end speed. Because he is so soft he struggles to fight of hooks and any kind of interference. He’s still great offensively but not elite. Compared to Kane but Kane has a lethal shot and it creates space for him. He scores with anyone and monahan types are good enough for guys that good. Johnny is just a few steps below guys like Kane. Problem with Johnny is if he isn’t scoring he’s god awful in his own end. He basically is a pp specialist these days

2 guys are about to break the bank. Tkachuk and Johnny. Tough to let them go but I say 1 has to go and Johnny would be my vote. Others can maybe go too but I still think this team is good and has lots to work with but we need a bit of a mix up of the core at minimum

This years draft is a bit concerning but we need a top pick. Move Johnny for some prospects and picks and reevaluate next year

Love to see Gio chase a cup too. Would be good for both us and him

[howard_the_duck]

Nm