Canada Should Not Participate in the 2022 Winter Olympics

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Michael Kovrig's trial was today in Beijing same as the other Michael's. No verdict (Means he's likely been found guilty, and the Chinese aren't releasing it). No foreign officials or journalists allowed in the Court Room.


It sounds like officials from 26 nations showed up at this one and demanded the release of the two Michael's which has to be embarrassing for the government in China.

They do not care...like....less than zero do they give a crap about that stuff.

They will pay lip service to it in front of the UN or something along those lines, but make no mistake, diplomatic relations are way way down their list of things they want to see happen. Otherwise this would have been settled long long ago or never happened to begin with. Its also why boycotting the Olympics is nothing but an empty gesture and complete virtue signaling while we still consume everything they choose to manufacture.

Said it earlier....China plays on its own playing field and it is one where nobody else is allowed without making it uneven again. They are bullies.

Money talks....virtue signaling walks.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I'm sure you're a real scholar. Dealing in absolutes is a well-known trait of those most knowledgeable on a topic.

Based on your post above about NK, I assume you would also condemn Michael Spavor for the work he was doing before he got arrested?

Wow you are a real piece of work.

How about you address all the Human Rights violations that the Chinese Government has done in, well hell since it came into power.


I don't agree with the work Michael Spavor was doing, I certainly don't think it is a justification to be jail and put through a sham trail.

FFS.

The Chinese government is horrendous, it's Human Rights violations are ramping up, but yah you hitch your wagon to that horse comrade.

[opendoor]

Given the current climate and massive increase in anti-Asian sentiment recently, people would do well to consider how rhetoric plays into and feeds that. That doesn't mean we can't and shouldn't be critical of the Chinese government and their human rights abuses, but just as we saw with Islamophobia in the '00s, when people are whipped up into a frenzy over geopolitical tensions it doesn't take much to spill over into racism and xenophobia.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Given the current climate and massive increase in anti-Asian sentiment recently, people would do well to consider how rhetoric plays into and feeds that. That doesn't mean we can't and shouldn't be critical of the Chinese government and their human rights abuses, but just as we saw with Islamophobia in the '00s, when people are whipped up into a frenzy over geopolitical tensions it doesn't take much to spill over into racism and xenophobia.

I have not seen that hear, in fact I've heard the opposite, its not the people, its the government.


Canada Sanctions 4 senior officals over the genocide


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...959080?cmp=rss

Canada joined the United States, the United Kingdom and the European Union today in placing sanctions on Chinese officials suspected of involvement in a years-long campaign of persecution against Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities in China's western Xinjiang province.
In a statement announcing the sanctions, Global Affairs Canada accused the four high-ranking officials of participating in "gross and systematic human rights violations" in Xinjiang.
The statement said mounting evidence shows the Chinese state is responsible for arbitrarily imprisoning more than one million people on the basis of their religion and ethnicity, and for subjecting them to "political re-education, forced labour, torture and forced sterilization."

he four officials Canada is targeting with asset freezes and a travel ban are:

• Chen Mingguo, director of the Xinjiang Public Security Bureau.
• Wang Mingshan, secretary of the political and legal affairs committee in Xinjiang and former director of the Xinjiang Public Security Bureau.
• Zhu Hailun, former deputy party secretary of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.
• Wang Junzheng, secretary of the party committee of the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps.

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by transplant99

They do not care...like....less than zero do they give a crap about that stuff.

They will pay lip service to it in front of the UN or something along those lines, but make no mistake, diplomatic relations are way way down their list of things they want to see happen. Otherwise this would have been settled long long ago or never happened to begin with. Its also why boycotting the Olympics is nothing but an empty gesture and complete virtue signaling while we still consume everything they choose to manufacture.

Said it earlier....China plays on its own playing field and it is one where nobody else is allowed without making it uneven again. They are bullies.

Money talks....virtue signaling walks.

I'm just curious. So do you think we should just keep the status quo? Get lots of cheep stuff, sell some of our grain, and just put out a travel advisory that China may not be the best place to travel? Ignore our treaties with other countries and let Meng Wanzhou go home? If the perception is that we cant do anything than lets not do anything? Not sure where you are going with this but it doesn't sit well with me.

As for the Olympics I really don't know how you send Canadians to a country that has a travel advisory that says:

"China - Exercise a high degree of caution. Exercise a high degree of caution in China due to the risk of arbitrary enforcement of local laws."

This is from our own government travel advisory website.

[pylon]

Pulling out of the Olympics is a dammed if you do, damned if you don't type of situation.

The Chinese government is terrifyingly corrupt and evil. For the gamers out there, I think to the Chinese government, the Half Life Universe is their dream, and they play the role of the Combine. They would play that game thinking, "Wait.... why are these guys considered bad? They beat citizens, control information, imprison and execute people pursuing in freedom.... that's how it's supposed to work. No?"

The right thing to do, is not go. Full Stop. But the problem with this is, they will feed their 1.4 billion citizens propaganda that the reason countries pulled out, was because they were terrified by the athletic prowess of the Chinese athletes, and didn't want to be embarrassed. They will lie. Like every other thing they lie about. And continue to block any information from the outside world that may counter the point.

The above will not happen. I'm sorry, but our leadership currently doesn't have the spine to do the right thing. The Trudeau Cabinet choosing to abstain from calling this horrific Genocide what it is, tells you all you need to know where their priorities lay. The IOC is too corrupt to relocate, as that will likely end up exposing all the officials that were bribed, like every other Olympic Games in the last 30 years.

So I believe the athletes from western value countries have it in their hands to go over there, and protest on the podium. In front of the China, and the world in real time.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Given the current climate and massive increase in anti-Asian sentiment recently, people would do well to consider how rhetoric plays into and feeds that. That doesn't mean we can't and shouldn't be critical of the Chinese government and their human rights abuses, but just as we saw with Islamophobia in the '00s, when people are whipped up into a frenzy over geopolitical tensions it doesn't take much to spill over into racism and xenophobia.

If someone wants to conflate criticism of the government of China and anti-Asian sentiment, that’s on them.

If there are idiots who think Chinese Government=Asian, I’m not sure how one could possibly consider them in a discussion about the CCP? Do we need a disclaimer for every thing so that people don’t take it wrong, or can we expect that people are generally more aware than that?

I’ve been critical of the government of China for at least a coupon of years now. Have I been contributing anti-Asian racism because I haven’t clarified that China is just one (albeit a ####ing huge one) Asian nation?

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by pylon

. .

So I believe the athletes from western value countries have it in their hands to go over there, and protest on the podium. In front of the China, and the world in real time.

A couple of things, let’s not talk about “western values”. Japan and Korea are not holding hostages, the PRC is. Secondly, the “Republic of China”, known as Taiwan is also not holding hostages and is also a democratic country.

Secondly, there is no way that any sort of protests conducted in the PRC will ever be seen by either PRC citizens or even in the west. I certainly do not remember any from Bejing 2008.

[GirlySports]

We needs a disclaimer for the disclaimer.

[RogerWilco]

For safety concerns, if the athletes do go, which they most likely will, they should just do their thing. We shouldn't expect them to make political statements of any kind. If they want to they could I guess but I don't think it would be advisable. Especially if Wanzhou is extradited to the US before then. Although I'm not fully aware of the timing of the extradition case.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I am completely opposed to genocide, regardless of which country it takes place in. I also don't think a country is defined just by the worst things that it does. Canada was still engaged in genocide at the time of the '88 games and when most of the posters on CP were growing up here, including me. That is horrific. I can recognize that is horrific and also recognize that there are many other sides to the country, many of which are wonderful. So, yeah, I think defining a country only by the worst things that it does isn't the right way to go. The world isn't just made up of good and evil, or good guys and bad guys. It's a messy, complex place where horror and beauty co-exist, overlap and intertwine. One of my heroes throughout my adult life has been Romeo Dallaire. He has called for Canada to boycott as a moral obligation, and I respect that. He is also someone who experienced a truly brutal genocide from the closest perspective, and still deeply loved the country where it took place and saw so much good there. He also struggled terribly with the haughty sense of superiority combined with actual moral disengagement with overseas realities that he saw in Canada after he returned.

Despite valid criticism and objection to some things that China is engaged in, the country has arguably also done more to improve the global average standard of living than any other country on earth over the last 20+ years. Chinese governance has been a major factor in that too, and continues to be a major factor in how China can continue contributing to the improvement of global quality of life in future.

Countries should be judged for the worst things they do, but they're not defined by those terrible things alone. I've been very critical of China on deserving issues as well, but I don't let those issues define everything about the country in my eyes. The world is not just black and white. The story of China as a modern world power is still far from finished being written.

Bull****.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

I'm just curious. So do you think we should just keep the status quo? Get lots of cheep stuff, sell some of our grain, and just put out a travel advisory that China may not be the best place to travel? Ignore our treaties with other countries and let Meng Wanzhou go home? If the perception is that we cant do anything than lets not do anything? Not sure where you are going with this but it doesn't sit well with me.

As for the Olympics I really don't know how you send Canadians to a country that has a travel advisory that says:

"China - Exercise a high degree of caution. Exercise a high degree of caution in China due to the risk of arbitrary enforcement of local laws."

This is from our own government travel advisory website.

Status quo? No.

I will say this one more time though....you have to hit them in the wallet to have any effect. Boycotting the Olympics doesnt do that....in any way, shape or form.

Also, as stated many times, when you are as small a player as Canada and unless you have a coalition of their large trading partners, you simply cant go it alone either. You only end up hurting your own economy and China will just carry on.

Sorry it "doesnt sit well with you" but this is the real world and how it is working at this time and extremely unlikely to change until the majority of the developed world all gets on the same page.

So we need the USA, The UK, France, Germany, Japan and Italy to all get on board as well....or at least a few of them

Aint happenin.

Really no idea why travel warnings are any part of this discussion but....they dont apply to the athletes because if China did anything to any of them during the games, then they really would likely have a united response from the rest of the world. The 08 games went off without a hitch as an example.

As a tourist though? Yeah, I wouldnt take the chance. Though you know there will be lots of them that do.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Bull****.

I'd love him to expand on lots of made up stuff in that post. Perhaps he is referring to the residential schools that were still open at that time, which while abhorrent pale in comparison to any number of things the Chinese Government has and continues to do to it's populace.

[Fuzz]

The other thing is that Residential Schools were closed 25 years ago. We have acknowledged they were wrong. China is operating in today's world, and doing far worse. If we still had them, he might have a point.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

A couple of things, let’s not talk about “western values”. Japan and Korea are not holding hostages, the PRC is. Secondly, the “Republic of China”, known as Taiwan is also not holding hostages and is also a democratic country.

Secondly, there is no way that any sort of protests conducted in the PRC will ever be seen by either PRC citizens or even in the west. I certainly do not remember any from Bejing 2008.

To me the Japan and Korea, would be Countries I would consider have 'Western values.' Western European/North American/Countries that uphold and embrace freedom. It's a catch-all phrase. I/E you are free to live your life out of direct state control, free of propaganda, free of regimes that inflict suffering on their citizens for not towing the regime line. We came close to losing that South of the Border, but freedom won out.

As to the second paragraph of your statement. It just shows why, China should not have the privilege to host Olympic Games at this point in their existence. People should be free to protest genocide with out censor. The only type of Government that would want to hide that protest from its citizens, is one trying to hide genocide from its citizens.

The Chinese Government is bad, and I feel sorry for those that have to live under it's rule.

[Monahammer]

For the record, I have previously made statements about how chinese people are wonderful, industrious and kind in my experience. That's a generalization on it's own, but I have never once held ill will to Chinese people. My comment on sending Meng to Guantanamo was obviously farcical and in the context of treating China as they continue to treat other powers: as if they don't care about international law and upholding proper carriage of justice for foreign citizens. In that context, we should treat their citizens like they treat ours, and sending her to somewhere like Guantanamo bay seems like the equal treatment to that the Michaels are receiving.

Now, I understand the gun might literally be to your head if you're in shanghai, but I personally hope to see your account disappear now. Stop shilling for a souless dictatorship that has no respect for its own people. State publicly here that the recent actions by Xi Jingping and Communist Party Leadership against the Uygher people, the people of Hong Kong, and eminently it seems on the people of Taiwan are absolutely unacceptable. State that in no uncertain terms or #### off and be labelled a shill forever.

[FlamesAddiction]

I like the idea of targeted sanctions on powerful individuals that do business in Canada, and then let them petition their government. China is such a large and powerful country compared to Canada that broad sanctions aren't going to be that useful. Their overall economy doesn't need us.

Canada did something similar with Myanmar this time around. About 15-20 years ago, Canada imposed sanctions that hurt some small villages that housed Canadian companies, but the ruling elite didn't feel it, which is often the case with sanctions.

[V]

I enjoyed the 2 weeks I spent in China, although I didn't enjoy them rooting through our bags when we landed before we got them back at each location we landed, and also didn't really enjoy the tail that we had for most of the trip as well. Pretty creepy.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by V

I enjoyed the 2 weeks I spent in China, although I didn't enjoy them rooting through our bags when we landed before we got them back at each location we landed, and also didn't really enjoy the tail that we had for most of the trip as well. Pretty creepy.

My FIL went there, and he was super stoked because the hotel gave them a smartphone with places to visit mapped out, and a bunch of stuff for tourists. I asked if he had it with him everywhere... "yes, of course, free internet!"

"Yes well, they were tracking everything you did, and I wouldn't be surprised if they recorded the mic and camera too." The look on his face...priceless.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

How awful that someone whose life has been split between Canada and China should contribute to a more balanced view. Why, oh, why can't accounts of life in China just be left to the guys from the beltline and Sylvan Lake?!?

I'm totally fine with suggestions that Canada pull out of the games, but the least I can contribute is calling out where posts are crossing a line into some distorted reality as a basis for doing so, or where someone posts a twisted expression of a hope for war that would cause unbelievable human suffering. Thankfully I'm not the only one who called that bs out.

You're not "calling out" anything. It's perfectly clear to anyone who's not a shill that all those posts were criticizing the CCP. Your schtick of pretending that they're somehow racist is tired, but I get that it's the only crutch to lean on to try and defend your buddies.

Also LOL to the idea that you living in China makes you some kind of neutral arbiter. Are you even allowed to post anything critical of the government from Chinese internet? Gotta keep that social credit score up!