2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

So no problem with the fact Wilson could be the dirtiest player in the league?
The way you guys complain about players like Kassian, you'd think you wouldn't be drooling over Wilson.

In a poll of NHLers a year or two ago for NBC Sports, Tkachuk was ranked third dirtiest player in the league-just behind Wilson and Marchand. Tkachuk, Lucic, and Rinaldo were top-10 for the Hockey Writers. I've seen polls in the Hockey News where Tkachuk made top-5. Just search the net, and you'll see those 3 pop up over and over, as answers to who the dirtiest players are. Is that a problem for you?

PS: I've never complained about Kassian.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Also, don’t forget about Ritchie-looks like he’s becoming a regular.

It looks like to me that it’s more likely he’s headed back to the taxi squad.

But time will tell on that.

I do think it’s clear that the first line experiment will end.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[8sPOT]

It does seem like the only way to build a true contender is via the draft.

All the best teams drafted their best players, the issue is that their best players are better than our best players. The teams like Tampa, Boston, Washington, Colorado, have built a great group through the draft. Especially Boston, they don't have any players picked in the Top 10 of the 1st round.

Unless Treliving has some more Hamilton-Ferland for Lindholm-Hanifin type deals incoming, I dont see how this group can ever contend.

Eichel would be nice, but that feels like 1 step forward and 1 step back because you're going to have to give up A LOT.

It's a fascinating time as I dont see how one of Monahan, Tkachuk, or Gaudreau isn't gone soon. That move will be the biggest factor in where this team goes next. And yet without a top end, 1st overall type pick, it wont be enough in my mind.

[The Original FFIV]

Wondering if we have put in a claim for Travis Boyd.

Rh shot, seems to have responsible 2 way game. Can assign Simon to Stockton and have him as an option for taxi squad or in Leivo’s spot.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

It looks like to me that it’s more likely he’s headed back to the taxi squad.

But time will tell on that.

I do think it’s clear that the first line experiment will end.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ritchie is suffering a bit from the Alex Chiasson syndrome. Chiasson was not a bad player and when used down the lineup could be effective. But with the team lacking natural RW's with size Ritchie is clearly out of place on that line. You might get away with it for a game or two, but the longer you go with it the more apparentl it becomes that it's not a good fit. Similar thing when they tried Bennett up there, the longer it went the worse it was. Ritchie as a 12-13 forward I think is okay...no business being higher in the lineup.

I do tend to think that the team needs to find a way to move on from at least one of Monahan and or Gaudreau if not both. Unless there is another Lindholm that you can bring in to play wing with these two, not much else seems to work.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by 8sPOT

It does seem like the only way to build a true contender is via the draft.

All the best teams drafted their best players, the issue is that their best players are better than our best players. The teams like Tampa, Boston, Washington, Colorado, have built a great group through the draft. Especially Boston, they don't have any players picked in the Top 10 of the 1st round.

Unless Treliving has some more Hamilton-Ferland for Lindholm-Hanifin type deals incoming, I dont see how this group can ever contend.

Eichel would be nice, but that feels like 1 step forward and 1 step back because you're going to have to give up A LOT.

It's a fascinating time as I dont see how one of Monahan, Tkachuk, or Gaudreau isn't gone soon. That move will be the biggest factor in where this team goes next. And yet without a top end, 1st overall type pick, it wont be enough in my mind.

I know that fans think Darryl didn't sign on for a rebuild and maybe the owners are trying to avoid it as we know how much they crave first round revenues. I just don't see any other way forward as the team as it is today isn't good enough and worse yet it's on the decline. I don't see how the team becomes better in the short term after a Gaudreau trade and Gio next season will probably be a bottom pairing defenseman. I just see this team shaping up as a has-been team that's going to be just good enough to keep themselves from being able to draft high enough to turn the organization around. Coincidentally it's the same path as the Kings trended with Darryl. It's crazy how fast things crumbled but the signs have been there for a few seasons now and the GM chose not to act in a proactive manner leading us to where we are today.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Wondering if we have put in a claim for Travis Boyd.

Rh shot, seems to have responsible 2 way game. Can assign Simon to Stockton and have him as an option for taxi squad or in Leivo’s spot.

Unless we are claiming him and then forcing Toronto’s hand to overpay for Bennett, sure.

[DeluxeMoustache]

A few seasons the signs have been there? Other than Gio getting older, which is undeniable. Johnny was trending the right direction and hit 99 points the season before last. That was a couple of seasons ago, not a few

Typical sky is falling view.

Hopefully the Flames beat Ottawa tonight and the doom and gloom can take a break

Sutter has coached for exactly 6 games.

Laughable that after the litany of awful coaches, the new guy gets only 6 games, in a year where they have little time to even practice

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

RE: similar winger for similar winger - the trade is then known proven point getter for younger, cheaper potential. How does trading for the same thing make CGY better, other than extra cap space?

Calgary getting a similar producer on a cheaper salary is one of the benefits. The other benefit is hopefully turning this into a deal where we can grab another player/prospect from them that strengthens the team elsewhere. My target is Morgan Frost. Do what it takes to secure both. The goal here is maintain the scoring capability of the roster while grooming that second piece to be an important player down the road.

RE: The clear PHI connections - Your post reads like the PHI free agent pitch to JG. I am fully aware that JG has strong connections to PHI. So What?

You asked for exactly why Philly makes the most sense and I just laid it all for you. It is Treliving's job to sell the player to Philly and why he is a good long term investment. That is how you get the most out of the other side of a deal. If Philly knows Gaudreau isn't a flight risk, his value will be worth more than if the team is unsure he will be hanging around once the contract is up. This isn't rocket surgery.

CGY should trade JG to PHI because JG would be great there and he would be happy there. Improving CGY should have no bearing? If anything, by your reasoning, PHI should be backing the truck up and giving Tre whatever he asks for.

No, Calgary should trade him to Philly because they have the assets that should keep the Flames competitive and whole, with the potential to get better if they can work the add. You're not trying to fit a square box in a round hole. The Flames should not be looking only at Philly, but since the Flyers are in the same predicament as the Flames, the inclination to make such a move may make the deal easier to consummate.

Until his NTC kicks in, where JG wants to end up is irrelevant. If Tre trades him to NJD, NYI, FLA - that's where he goes. The question in your scenario is will PHI pay a premium believing JG will sign an extension.

Actually, its very relevant. Because teams are going to ask, is he open to signing an extension here? If the answer is no, then it doesn't matter WTF Treliving says or does, the value of the player plummets. The player is getting too close to free agency to suggest that his status will not directly impact what his return is. If a team is not on that five team list, then it is unlikely he would expand it to include any team he traded to just because he is traded there. For a team not on that list it means any trade for Gaudreau is very short term.

Another thing that is telling is the fact that the list is only a five team list. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out what that list looks like and who might be on it.

Where a player is from is irrelevant, unless that player is a free agent. If birthplace is such a key aspect, then TOR should be going nuts trying to get every Toronto area born player out there; Hall should want to only play in CGY and be willing to do it for half the money.

This is true to some extent, but you have to be a complete dufus to not watch and listen to what the player is saying about his personal life. He is very family oriented. He is very attached to that part of the country. His future wife has a really good job and is happy there. All of that matters to Johnny Gaudreau. Once he has control over where he can sign what do you think his priorities are going to be? Anyone west or north of Columbus probably should not apply.

In NJ, when they are all healthy, Zacha will be stuck behind Huges & Hirschiesr. They are likely losing their top 2 wingers to UFA. NJ needs someone with skill to play with their stud centers. They have a ton of cap space, so no need to deal bad contracts. They have plenty of good prospects. They have plenty of wingers with size, but less skill. Even if they are a couple of years away from "win now", they still have to ice a team that sells a few tickets.

Does Gaudreau want to go to a rebuilding team? Doubtful. You can see his frustration on a losing team in Calgary, so I doubt he wants to go to a losing team in New Jersey. This is a matter of where a player wants to go because during negotiations that is going to playout big time.

In the end, I'm not a GM. I just don't know why CGY should try so hard to deal JG to PHI just to make PHI and JG happy. I am in the camp that believes TK doesn't make CGY any better. Shouldn't "Improve my team first" be the basis for any deal.

That is the goal of every GM, to make the team better. But a GM also has to recognize that the player can greatly influence where he gets to land as he approaches UFA status. That is going to come into play and affect return. The GM's responsibility is also to ice the best team possible and try to win. So if you can move Gaudreau for a similar cost controlled player that can produce on the second line, then that is way better than trading for a player who doesn't address a need and a hand full of magic beans draft picks. Draft picks are five year investment, so if you go that way you are announcing to everyone you are going into a rebuild. I don't believe the Flames want to go that avenue. I know Darryl Sutter did not sign on to coach this team through a rebuild. Read the entirety of the situation and you'll see the options are limited, and a team like New Jersey is not part of the equation.

[1_Flames_Fan]

Let's make that trade around Johnny for TK happen. Helps both teams, both need a shake up. Figure out the pieces and get it done. That's what I want to see.

[Cowtownred]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

Let's make that trade around Johnny for TK happen. Helps both teams, both need a shake up. Figure out the pieces and get it done. That's what I want to see.

Get Johnny a centre who he can flourish with. Monahan is his boat anchor! How can SM be called a centre, when he doesnt drive the line? Theres the problem in my eyes.

[Monahammer]

Everyone is focused on Eichel in Buffalo, but I wonder if someone could steal Dahlin from them.

[dammage79]

My perception of a PHI/CGY trade with Johnny involved looks a little different.

I think it'd look a bit more like this:

Johnny (6.75m 2 years) 1.5 m retained
Kylington ( 790k 1 year)

For

Patrick (850k 1year RFA)
Ghostibehere(4.5m 3 years)
2021 2nd round pick
Try for a prospect like Forrester

Looks incredibly low but you're buying a 22year old RFA with tip 2 center potential with a coveted RHS.

If the concensus is youre losing Johnny no matter what happens, get the asset management aspect correct.

Patrick is buried in PHI no way about that. I think he'd be a better fit in our top 6.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Everyone is focused on Eichel in Buffalo, but I wonder if someone could steal Dahlin from them.

Total crap shoot. Theyve sewered that guy. Or he just isn't good enough. His -27 (last I checked) is woefully abysmal.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dammage79

My perception of a PHI/CGY trade with Johnny involved looks a little different.

I think it'd look a bit more like this:

Johnny (6.75m 2 years) 1.5 m retained
Kylington ( 790k 1 year)

For

Patrick (850k 1year RFA)
Ghostibehere(4.5m 3 years)
2021 2nd round pick
Try for a prospect like Forrester

Looks incredibly low but you're buying a 22year old RFA with tip 2 center potential with a coveted RHS.

If the concensus is youre losing Johnny no matter what happens, get the asset management aspect correct.

Patrick is buried in PHI no way about that. I think he'd be a better fit in our top 6.

Is Johnny’s value that low where the Flames retain and don’t even get a first round pick back?

I would be okay with Patrick as one of the pieces in the deal but not a centerpiece.

Konecny+Patrick for Gaudreau + ? and then send Monahan somewhere for a winger. With Monahan, Lindholm, Backlund on the roster I don’t see Patrick getting in that top 6 without moving one of those centers.

Lindholm-Backlund-Patrick as your top 3 C. Tkachuk, Konecny, Mangiapane, and whoever they get for Monahan as their top 4 wings.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Total crap shoot. Theyve sewered that guy. Or he just isn't good enough. His -27 (last I checked) is woefully abysmal.

Worth it Crap shoot. He's still very young, d men take time, and he has some of the best raw skills in a long long time. Buffalo is in such disarray that someone might be able to steal a big deal on this guy while he's undervalue, underperforming, and the focus is on their "generational" forward

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dammage79

My perception of a PHI/CGY trade with Johnny involved looks a little different.

I think it'd look a bit more like this:

Johnny (6.75m 2 years) 1.5 m retained
Kylington ( 790k 1 year)

For

Patrick (850k 1year RFA)
Ghostibehere(4.5m 3 years)
2021 2nd round pick
Try for a prospect like Forrester

Looks incredibly low but you're buying a 22year old RFA with tip 2 center potential with a coveted RHS.

If the concensus is youre losing Johnny no matter what happens, get the asset management aspect correct.

Patrick is buried in PHI no way about that. I think he'd be a better fit in our top 6.

Barf.

Patrick was great before his injuries. But he has 6 points in 29 games and is hugely minus, with poor underlying numbers.

Also will need to be protected in the expansion draft.

He's a throw in at this point, not the center piece.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Barf.

Patrick was great before his injuries. But he has 6 points in 29 games and is hugely minus, with poor underlying numbers.

Also will need to be protected in the expansion draft.

He's a throw in at this point, not the center piece.

So he’s their Bennett

[Monahammer]

I've pitched Gaudreau+Bennett for Konecny+Patrick and i feel the value is still good. Patrick is woefully underperforming again, and Bennett might still have Playoff player value.

Monahan + Hanifin as a basis for Dahlin+ Sam Reinhart


Mangiapane-Lindholm-Reinhart
Tkachuk-Backlund-Konecny
Lucic-Patrick-Dube
Nodstrom/Leivo-Ryan-Ritchie

Dahlin-Tanev
Giordano-Andersson
Valimaki-Nesterov

Markstrom

Basically younger guys with higher upside potential. Not a notable get better roster, but perhaps a group of guys that would play better together.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Barf.

Patrick was great before his injuries. But he has 6 points in 29 games and is hugely minus, with poor underlying numbers.

Also will need to be protected in the expansion draft.

He's a throw in at this point, not the center piece.

Yup, basically like trading Gaudreau for Bennett two years ago or something. Sure he still has potential to become a top 6 center but if he wasn't drafted high, no one would talk about him.