Canada Should Not Participate in the 2022 Winter Olympics

[CaptainCrunch]

Michael Kovrig's trial was today in Beijing same as the other Michael's. No verdict (Means he's likely been found guilty, and the Chinese aren't releasing it). No foreign officials or journalists allowed in the Court Room.


It sounds like officials from 26 nations showed up at this one and demanded the release of the two Michael's which has to be embarrassing for the government in China.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

That is just an ignorant and stupid thing to say. Go to China and have some conversations with people who live there and have travelled the world. Ask them if they think China is a #### hole that you should feel sorry for them having to live in.

Hmmm

> Sham Justice System, check
> State Sanctioned Torture, check
> Restrictions on Free Expression, check
> Discrimination based sexual preference, check

I mean the place sounds just lovely.


https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries.../report-china/

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/202...hina-and-tibet

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by zamler

In those quotes people are talking about the government not the public at large.

Are all those quotes just about the government? Are they even reasonable takes if they're about the government?

Saying the Chinese government are essentially a Jihadist group is a dumb take. Sure it's about the government, but it's not connected to reality.

Saying China is a ####ty country, or an awful horror show of a country doesn't seem like it's just about the government. It's also pretty disconnected from reality.

Saying Meng Wanzhou should be sent to Guantanamo isn't about the Chinese government at all. Neither is saying Canada should seize Chinese assets and hope for NATO to crush China in a war. Those are just awful and inhumane sentiments in themselves.

There are plenty of valid criticisms that can be launched at China's government, but the quotes I picked out aren't examples of those.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

A lot of people are concerned about the direction Xi has taken, including security commentators. I don’t think you should minimize or invalidate that.

I'm not minimizing or invalidating that. I'm just calling out a few statements that are extreme or disconnected from reality. There's plenty of commentary that I haven't objected to at all.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The last thing we would want is a war in Asia, the supply lines are too long for the main parties on the Western side, and Taiwan and Japan would bear the burnt of it.


From a naval perspective the PLAN wouldn't last all that long in a blue water engagement, but drawing them out from the umbrella of advanced Chinese anti-ship missiles would be impossible. Similarly the PLAA would probably not do all that well in an air war against the American's.



But where would it go from there? You're not going to win any kind of invasion as the PLA is massive, and the Chinese have spent a ton of money on upgrading its capabilities. If you decide to bust Chinese cities, to what effect? Taiwan and Japan at the very least vanish. Even in a conventional War its likely that if China does win, they snatch up as many of the strategic resources as they can (Oil Fields in the China seas). As well China can choke off the American's and others in terms of strategic resources.



The war that needs to be fought with China is with spreadsheets and quickbooks. That requires the Americans to clamp down.


However Canada needs to stop sending infrastructure Dollars or any other kind of funding to China or its businesses, and send that money to China's competitors in the area to encourage them to take advantage of a Canada's open for your business and will help you supplant Chinese goods.



There needs to be a lot of trade reformation in trade agreements with China, and that needs to have America and the other large partners on board. Trade with China has never really met trade. In terms of consumer goods or finished goods going into China its an extremely closed off market place. However China has an expectation that everyone should accept their goods without conditions. Also China still leads the world in industrial espionage and stealing patents.



You want to hurt China, its on the balance sheet, its demanding that trade means trade and you're markets have to open way up. It also means that China has to do a better job in terms of things like shipping out opiods from their little labs under the eyes of their Military and clamp down on their hacking and espionage.



And Canada needs to build a coalition around that, and push the American's on that. China still has a huge need for hard currency, they're spending a ton of their military, and intelligence gathering.



Sorry for the long post. But China is a bully, there's no other description of it. Smack them on the nose now, or regret it later. And yeah, China will retaliate, but its no different from how they're doing business now anyways.

Oh, I agree. You're not going to threaten China with actual war, because they know the West won't ever do it. It's all through economic means, and information espionage. You have to hit them in their pocket books at this point, there's no other way.

Not saying it's easy, but that's kind of the result of years of reliance on cheap labour and manufacturing from China. It's going to be a real hard sell to wean the West off of cheap merchandise that they're used to. China played the long game, and they've now put the West in a hard place because of it.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Hmmm

> Sham Justice System, check
> State Sanctioned Torture, check
> Restrictions on Free Expression, check
> Discrimination based sexual preference, check

I mean the place sounds just lovely.


https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries.../report-china/

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/202...hina-and-tibet

I totally forgot the state sponsored retreats:

https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/02/20/...buses-xinjiang

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by Sliver

So long as we keep Wanzhoug, they will keep the Michaels. What else can they do? Plus, they've actually gone light on us with that. She's a way bigger player than those guys are. China has the power to inflict much more damage on us as retaliation than they have. Let's count our blessings on this one.

Not sure if serious, you make it sound like you actually think they are engaging in a legitimate tactic? The Canadians are being held for simply being Canadian, they know it, we know it, every one knows it. Wanzhoug is being held due to our commitment to an international treaty. If you can even call it " being held". She is living in a mansion and I think is pretty much free to do anything she wants except leave the country. Her family members even are allowed to come and stay with her.

What else are they going to do? I don't know, maybe at a very minimum open the "trial" to impartial observers for one so that they can prove the two Michaels are "spies"? Maybe allow the hostages to some of the same comforts that Canada has allowed Wanzhoug?

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I'm not minimizing or invalidating that. I'm just calling out a few statements that are extreme or disconnected from reality. There's plenty of commentary that I haven't objected to at all.

It wouldn't be a China thread if you weren't in it shilling for the communist dictatorship cabal that runs the place. There isn't a single post anywhere that condemns the actual Chinese people, the biggest victims of this trash heap government, but go on pretending like there is.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

Not sure if serious, you make it sound like you actually think they are engaging in a legitimate tactic? The Canadians are being held for simply being Canadian, they know it, we know it, every one knows it. Wanzhoug is being held due to our commitment to an international treaty. If you can even call it " being held". She is living in a mansion and I think is pretty much free to do anything she wants except leave the country. Her family members even are allowed to come and stay with her.

What else are they going to do? I don't know, maybe at a very minimum open the "trial" to impartial observers for one so that they can prove the two Michaels are "spies"? Maybe allow the hostages to some of the same comforts that Canada has allowed Wanzhoug?

Well why would they do that? They're putting way more pressure on us the way they're going about it.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

It wouldn't be a China thread if you weren't in it shilling for the communist dictatorship cabal that runs the place. There isn't a single post anywhere that condemns the actual Chinese people, the biggest victims of this trash heap government, but go on pretending like there is.

Listen China does good, I mean they account for over 90% of all North Korea's Imports & Exports, oh wait being a trading partner with the largest Nutcase Government in the world isn't a positive.......

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Oh, I agree. You're not going to threaten China with actual war, because they know the West won't ever do it. It's all through economic means, and information espionage. You have to hit them in their pocket books at this point, there's no other way.

Not saying it's easy, but that's kind of the result of years of reliance on cheap labour and manufacturing from China. It's going to be a real hard sell to wean the West off of cheap merchandise that they're used to. China played the long game, and they've now put the West in a hard place because of it.

We have to hit their pocketbooks? We are the pocketbook. Our links to China have been bought and paid for, was an exchange for democracy that never happened. At this point it would be self-inflicted wounds. As was stated above, people can't even wear masks, how can they give up their material ways?

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

It wouldn't be a China thread if you weren't in it shilling for the communist dictatorship cabal that runs the place. There isn't a single post anywhere that condemns the actual Chinese people, the biggest victims of this trash heap government, but go on pretending like there is.

How awful that someone whose life has been split between Canada and China should contribute to a more balanced view. Why, oh, why can't accounts of life in China just be left to the guys from the beltline and Sylvan Lake?!?

I'm totally fine with suggestions that Canada pull out of the games, but the least I can contribute is calling out where posts are crossing a line into some distorted reality as a basis for doing so, or where someone posts a twisted expression of a hope for war that would cause unbelievable human suffering. Thankfully I'm not the only one who called that bs out.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

How awful that someone whose life has been split between Canada and China should contribute to a more balanced view. Why, oh, why can't accounts of life in China just be left to the guys from the beltline and Sylvan Lake?!?

I'm totally fine with suggestions that Canada pull out of the games, but the least I can contribute is calling out where posts are crossing a line into some distorted reality as a basis for doing so, or where someone posts a twisted expression of a hope for war that would cause unbelievable human suffering. Thankfully I'm not the only one who called that bs out.

I assume the shout out is for me, #lakelife

Have I been to China, no and to be honest until there is a change in regime I'm not to interested in going (so I guess I am never going).

Can I research and read from those that are more knowledgeable than you or I, yeah.

The Chinese Government is a huge Human Rights abuser, I mean it is well know and documented. I am baffled that this is even in question.

What ####ing world is this?

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Well why would they do that? They're putting way more pressure on us the way they're going about it.

Hey, as long as you are on board with the government of China, you do you. Personally, I think it would be insane for any Canadian to travel to China right now knowing that you literally have no rights once you are there. Its like playing the lottery, but in reverse.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

How awful that someone whose life has been split between Canada and China should contribute to a more balanced view. Why, oh, why can't accounts of life in China just be left to the guys from the beltline and Sylvan Lake?!?

I'm totally fine with suggestions that Canada pull out of the games, but the least I can contribute is calling out where posts are crossing a line into some distorted reality as a basis for doing so, or where someone posts a twisted expression of a hope for war that would cause unbelievable human suffering. Thankfully I'm not the only one who called that bs out.

So how do you justify the Uyghur prisons?

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

So how do you justify the Uyghur prisons?

I don't. I said so explicitly above. I am opposed to the conscious elimination of a people or their culture anywhere in the world.

[undercoverbrother]

https://globalnews.ca/news/7711459/c...tqSm8xdRya3XDc

it is a start

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

Hey, as long as you are on board with the government of China, you do you. Personally, I think it would be insane for any Canadian to travel to China right now knowing that you literally have no rights once you are there. Its like playing the lottery, but in reverse.

Yeah, I'm not going to China, either, so no clue what you're talking about here.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

https://globalnews.ca/news/7711459/c...tqSm8xdRya3XDc

it is a start

It is but you notice the key line in that article.

The sanctions, which Canada is applying in coordination with the United States and the United Kingdom, come amid multiple reports, studies and news articles detailing the horrific mistreatment and abuse China’s Uyghur population has been subjected to in the Xinjiang region.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I assume the shout out is for me, #lakelife

Have I been to China, no and to be honest until there is a change in regime I'm not to interested in going (so I guess I am never going).

Can I research and read from those that are more knowledgeable than you or I, yeah.

The Chinese Government is a huge Human Rights abuser, I mean it is well know and documented. I am baffled that this is even in question.

What ####ing world is this?

I'm sure you're a real scholar. Dealing in absolutes is a well-known trait of those most knowledgeable on a topic.

Based on your post above about NK, I assume you would also condemn Michael Spavor for the work he was doing before he got arrested?