It’s also made harder by the fact he is likely not on the trade market.
In any event, assuming he is traded, the likely winning bidder will include a premium piece that is young, relatively cheap and with term. Calgary does not have that piece.
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Tkachuk, Monahan, Zary, 1st.
Four 1st round picks - two Bonafide NHL players with leadership, a fine centre prospect and a lottery ticket.
We get a #1C under contract through his prime for 5 years.
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Four 1st round picks - two Bonafide NHL players with leadership, a fine centre prospect and a lottery ticket.
We get a #1C under contract through his prime for 5 years.
That’s a decent offer for sure. But “leadership”?
I think Calgary’s biggest problem is their complete lack of leadership on the ice. I don’t think Monny has any leadership qualities. Tkachuk might eventually. But it’s hard for us outsiders to really know.
I expect t that the player that Buffalo would insist be part of the package is Lindholm. Based on his contract and skills.
You either have to go for Eichel or scorch the team for Wright or Bedard. Those are all top end centers that the Flames desperately need.
With Sutter at helm, our option is to go for someone like Eichel or go for a three way trade with Buffalo and New York, where we acquire Zibanejad (or some crazy trade like that). But, those trades don't happen in the NHL, so we revert back to Eichel.
Buffalo is a tire fire, and arguably a worse run organization than the Oilers. Yes, the organization up north is actually doing slightly better than Buffalo. We haven't seen Jack's potential. It's been him without much help. I suppose you can say that he has had help, and also pieces that SHOULD be helping him, but they aren't. We have better ownership, better GM, and now better coaching. And I would argue that we would have a better supporting cast. I don't think Jack is fit to be captain of our team, but we would emphasize that he is our key to getting success beyond the regular season. He hasn't had that chance yet, you bet your ass he would be fired up. He also didn't like getting picked after McDavid in the 2015 draft, I'm sure he would love to play his best every time went up against Edmonton.
Monahan for sure would have to be traded, and it would either have to be Gaudreau or Tkachuk also going the other way. I think with the direction of this team under coach Sutter, I would be more comfortable keeping Tkachuk over Gaudreau, as I think Tkachuk's style fits more of what Sutter wants from this team. Gaudreau wouldn't extend in Buffalo, so I think we'd have to find another suitor who would take him. Philadelphia is the ideal choice.
To Calgary: Eichel, Okposo @ 50% retention
To Buffalo: Monahan, Gostisbehere, Frost, JVR, 2021/22 1st (CGY), 2022 1st (PHI), Patrick
To Philadelphia: Gaudreau, Ristolainen
Basically comes down to: Monahan, Gaudreau, and 2021 1st for Eichel and Okposo (50% retained),
Then Philly trading for Gaudreau and Ristolainen in exchange for JVR, Ghost, 2021 1st, Patrick, Frost
Like I said, three way trades are rare. I think if I am Buffalo I ask for Tkachuk and Monahan, and if that were to happen then I hope we try to land Reinhart and Eichel and add to Tkachuk and Monahan.
PHI is giving up an insane amount there for 1.25 seasons of JG and RR.
Okposo also has a 15 team NTC. I'm sure at this point he'd waive for most places, but if BUF is trading away Eichel then his 2 more years of bad money don't really matter to them (and his buyout wouldn't be that bad).
I do agree that any chance CGY has at Eichel would likely involve a 3rd team. Unless maybe we did Lindholm+Andersson+. I think they'd have zero interest in SM, JG, or MT given their contract terms.
Eichel is a game changer. Can you imagine him playing with Gaudreau or Tkachuk on his wing?
Gotta start with Monahan, I think. I'd add Hanifin and Zary plus a 1st. Maybe a defenseman like Miller comes back to even things out.
Would love it to be Monahan but I suspect they know what we know
I would be ok with Lindholm and moving Monahan elsewhere.
PHI is giving up an insane amount there for 1.25 seasons of JG and RR.
Okposo also has a 15 team NTC. I'm sure at this point he'd waive for most places, but if BUF is trading away Eichel then his 2 more years of bad money don't really matter to them (and his buyout wouldn't be that bad).
I do agree that any chance CGY has at Eichel would likely involve a 3rd team. Unless maybe we did Lindholm+Andersson+. I think they'd have zero interest in SM, JG, or MT given their contract terms.
How do you figure that is 1 25 seasons of Gaudreau? Is there any doubt whatsoever he would re-sign there? Like none.
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If it's that certain, they might as well wait a year and get him for nothing but cash.
The Flyers would still need to decide they 100% want him, and they would both have to agree to terms.
2022 is an insane UFA year (including their own Couturier and Giroux), and PHI can be in on whoever they want (that makes it to UFA, which certainly won't be all of even most of the following):
Barkov
Zibanejad
F Forsberg
Hertl
Gaudreau
Malkin
Bergeron
(even decent options a step or two down; non comprehensive):
Kadri
Kessel
R Strome
Burakovsky
Trocheck
Domi
Seth Jones
Pulock
Ekholm
Nurse
Letang
Rielly
Klingberg
Parayko
H Lindholm
Ristolainen
Subban
If I'm PHI, I'm waiting for the ED to play out and keeping maximum flexibility. I'd only move those assets out to guarantee I get Seth Jones (or maybe Pulock/Parayko) - solving the biggest need.
This is complete bs. Monahan does not play defense. Johnny actually backchecks more than Monahan. The Monahan apologists need to stop fabricating this supposed 200 foot game that is entirely non existent. I have not seen anything you claim from the above, just a slow soft perimeter player who is a liability when he isn't scoring.
I don't know about Johnny back checking more but it is complete BS that Sean has this stellar 200 foot game. He's still hands it off to opposition, he still seems to come off worse in any physical encounter. Honestly if "improved" from nothing is the basis for a 1st or hell a 2nd line C we're in trouble.
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PHI is giving up an insane amount there for 1.25 seasons of JG and RR.
Okposo also has a 15 team NTC. I'm sure at this point he'd waive for most places, but if BUF is trading away Eichel then his 2 more years of bad money don't really matter to them (and his buyout wouldn't be that bad).
I do agree that any chance CGY has at Eichel would likely involve a 3rd team. Unless maybe we did Lindholm+Andersson+. I think they'd have zero interest in SM, JG, or MT given their contract terms.
I probably should have clarified that this would be an offseason trade. And the Flyers aren't just acquiring Johnny, they're also acquiring Ristolainen from Buffalo. Patrick needs a change of scenery, Frost is still a question mark.
Monahan had a 2 goal game, but aside from that he's done other things than score, especially in the zone Sutter cares the most about. Well enough that Sutter's put him on some PKs. 17 SOG as well. 9 hits (Lindholm had 7, Backlund had 5).
Tell me what Gaudreau has done that should impress a guy like Sutter. 1 goal (when getting blown out) and no assists. 7 SOG. No hits obviously.
Monahan has 17 shots on goal and Gaudreau has no assists.
Connect the dots here please....
Monahan isn't creating those 17 shots by himself.
Gaudreau can't get an assist when his linemates can't finish.
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I don't know about Johnny back checking more but it is complete BS that Sean has this stellar 200 foot game. He's still hands it off to opposition, he still seems to come off worse in any physical encounter. Honestly if "improved" from nothing is the basis for a 1st or hell a 2nd line C we're in trouble.
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Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates
Monahan has 17 shots on goal and Gaudreau has no assists.
Connect the dots here please....
Monahan isn't creating those 17 shots by himself.
Gaudreau can't get an assist when his linemates can't finish.
You both are missing the point, and misquoting me as well. I said Sutter probably is liking Monahan’s game more right now than Gaudreau’s and I stick with that, based on what I said. Maybe you have some data to contradict it.
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You both are missing the point, and misquoting me as well. I said Sutter probably is liking Monahan’s game more right now than Gaudreau’s and I stick with that, based on what I said. Maybe you have some data to contradict it.
I'm simply pointing out your interpretation of your own data is flawed.
Monahan has 17 shots largely because he plays with Gaudreau.
Gaudreau has zero assists largely because he passes to Monahan & Ritchie.
If Sutter is happy with Monahan's 17 shots, he'll also be happy with the guy who sets up 95% if those shots.
If he's unhappy with Gaudreau's zero assists, he'll also be unhappy with the guys who can't finish any of his setups.
Sutter is likely happy or unhappy with both Monahan & Gaudreau. He'd understand the interconnectedness of this data.
I'm simply pointing out your interpretation of your own data is flawed.
Monahan has 17 shots largely because he plays with Gaudreau.
Gaudreau has zero assists largely because he passes to Monahan & Ritchie.
If Sutter is happy with Monahan's 17 shots, he'll also be happy with the guy who sets up 95% if those shots.
If he's unhappy with Gaudreau's zero assists, he'll also be unhappy with the guys who can't finish any of his setups.
Sutter is likely happy or unhappy with both Monahan & Gaudreau. He'd understand the interconnectedness of this data.
Monahan has 2 goals. Gaudreau assisted on neither. And the point is that Sutter is defence first, and he seems happy enough with Monahan in his own zone to give him faceoffs there, and, more importantly, put him on PK. Anyone not noticing Monahan’s defensive effort these days is simply ignoring it.
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Monahan has 2 goals. Gaudreau assisted on neither. And the point is that Sutter is defence first, and he seems happy enough with Monahan in his own zone to give him faceoffs there, and, more importantly, put him on PK. Anyone not noticing Monahan’s defensive effort these days is simply ignoring it.
Wrong I simply disagree with your observation entirely. I see him overwhelmed making decisions and turning the puck over, not winning battles, certainly not physical ones. Your argument seems to be "he tries" and I don't think that's good enough.
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Wrong I simply disagree with your observation entirely. I see him overwhelmed making decisions and turning the puck over, not winning battles, certainly not physical ones. Your argument seems to be "he tries" and I don't think that's good enough.
He arguably had one turnover in the D zone last game, but it was more on the D and Ritchie. But he won a fair number of puck battles, stopped a number of plays in the D and NZs, covered for pinching D, and normally got the puck out, only to see Gaudreau pass to Ritchie up ice, who then lost it.
My argument is that Sutter likes him in the D zone. And my argument is that he likely likes his game a lot more than what he’s seen out of Johnny.
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Until we get Eichel I think Sutter needs a sit down meeting with Monahan and Gaudreau with a clip show when they played their best, Give them Mangiapane at RW who can somewhat replace the skill of Hudler with the forechecking and puck retrieval needed.
Ritchie isn't as bad as I thought but lets face it he has the vision of a bat and is a 3rd/4th liner.
Last edited by Snuffleupagus; 03-22-2021 at 02:54 AM.
Monahan is not a power guy, he doesn't crash and bang, and generally doesn't grind it out like a Mike Peca. This makes him a lot less noticeable, but there's more to good defense than those things. Mony plays a pretty sound positional defensive game-he takes away passes and shots with his positioning, and his stick. When he gets possession, the puck goes the other way. He'll probably never win a Selke, but he's fine. Jere Lehtinen, and Joe Nieuwendyk were examples of players that were great defensively, but a bit soft physically. And if there's any doubt, look at his ice time under Sutter.
And I'm not a huge Mony fan, I've argued before about my belief that we could use an upgrade at C.
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Monahan has 17 shots on goal and Gaudreau has no assists.
Connect the dots here please....
Monahan isn't creating those 17 shots by himself.
Gaudreau can't get an assist when his linemates can't finish.
I don't disagree, because Monahan has looked largely useless. But Gaudreau has been pretty terrible lately even when it comes to his passing.
I just went through last game to pull the few highlights (Tanev mostly) and these 2 botched passes by Gaudreau to Monahan stood out, knee and chest high:
I don't disagree, because Monahan has looked largely useless. But Gaudreau has been pretty terrible lately even when it comes to his passing.
I just went through last game to pull the few highlights (Tanev mostly) and these 2 botched passes by Gaudreau to Monahan stood out, knee and chest high:
..
The pair's ineffectiveness is definitely a result of both players struggling, compounded by having a 4th liner on their wing.
The first one, you could see Monny in a good place, stick on the ice giving Johnny a target. Backhand sauce by Johnny missed by a bit for sure, not great, and Monny couldn’t knock it down
The second one I recall watching and thought Mikheyev got a stick on it. Tough to tell from the replay
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I think Sutter needs a sit down meeting with Monahan and Gaudreau with a clip show when they played their best, Give them Mangiapane at RW who can somewhat replace the skill of Hudler with the forechecking and puck retrieval needed.
