Brad Treliving needs to go

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Sorry but I don't see much of a difference in having ownership reject your buyout request vs. a player rejecting your trade request.

I don't recall the buyout request happening. Even then, if we are debating the GM's merits to make significant changes to the roster I don't see how any of this contradicts his will to do so.

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[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It has been apparent that this core group of players needed a change since the Colorado series. That was in 2019.

There have been a whole lot of trades in the NHL since then.

Treliving acquired Lucic.

107 point regular season. Second best in franchise history. They deserved another look. Let’s not pretend it should have been any different with the benefit of hindsight.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I love what Tanev has brought. The problem with the Flames blueline is the $'s sunk into it. Neither Rasmus nor Gio are earning their paychecks this season. That's an $11.3 million pairing.

Last year it was only Hamonic you could really say that about.

It's hard to lay all that at Treliving's feet. But fact is, not enough guys on this roster are playing to their salary and the GM doesn't seem to have been able to preemptively take action on much of anything. Now we see a roster slowly bleeding value in a number of places.

I miss the days when we could crow about how better off we were having Gaudreau and Monahan both for not much more than McDavid's money.

Players underperforming is hardly unique to the Flames, or this GM. It’s quite common. Give Anderson time, he’ll bounce back.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I see. He also bought out James Neal and in fact, did not acquire Lucic.

And gave up a ton of assets for a Taylor Hall rental.

When did this buyout request happen? I don’t recall hearing/seeing anything reported.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TOfan

107 point regular season. Second best in franchise history. They deserved another look. Let’s not pretend it should have been any different with the benefit of hindsight.

There wasn't a need to tear it down but much better teams than the Flames have not been shy about making changes. Bringing the same core back two years running was a mistake.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

There wasn't a need to tear it down but much better teams than the Flames have not been shy about making changes. Bringing the same core back two years running was a mistake.

Sure, but it’s not like Treliving was out to lunch. Coming back was a reasonable approach. If anything, he was looking to add (Zucker, Kadri). Didn’t work out, now they have to adjust. things are constantly changing and a lot of it is outside of the GM’s control.

[Two Fivenagame]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I think your underestimating the impact the pandemic and a flat cap is having. How many trades of significance where core pieces are involved has there been since last March? Not many. Domi-Anderson, Liane-PLD. Are there any more?

Laying the lack of trades at the feet of Treliving is misguided. Should go without saying, but you need another GM to want to make the trade as well.

I agree the pandemic has probably made trades difficult this year. He has been GM for 6 more years tho.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

There wasn't a need to tear it down but much better teams than the Flames have not been shy about making changes. Bringing the same core back two years running was a mistake.

But he was not shy about making changes. He had a deal done—in place and signed off on—that would have made a big improvement. The player quashed the deal, and that is completely outside of the GM's control. It was neither Treliving's choice nor his doing that the core remained the same.

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[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

I agree the pandemic has probably made trades difficult this year. He has been GM for 6 more years tho.

That’s a pretty hollow statement. Countless things could have happened.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

I agree the pandemic has probably made trades difficult this year. He has been GM for 6 more years tho.

But you are attempting to rewrite history on the basis of hindsight. Coming in to the 2017-18 season Treliving made dramatic changes; a few of which looked like they worked out well. That summer he completed a trade that would have significantly improved the team, but it fell through because of s NTC. With everything that transpired I don't see how the five years prior to 2020 are relevant to the discussion of the need to reshape the core.

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[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But he was not shy about making changes. He had a deal done—in place and signed off on—that would have made a big improvement. The player quashed the deal, and that is completely outside of the GM's control. It was neither Treliving's choice nor his doing that the core remained the same.

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Ok, ok, the Kadri deal. Big improvement... It would have made the team weaker at D and given them yet another C, not a RW. Probably would have been great in the room, he could have made the throat slash gesture to Gio when he coughed up the puck.

The NTC is a risk of trying to make that deal and Tre pursued it and failed.

Hardly a feather in Tre’s cap of any sort

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't recall the buyout request happening. Even then, if we are debating the GM's merits to make significant changes to the roster I don't see how any of this contradicts his will to do so.

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Treliving's attempt to buyout Neal was reported IIRC by Friedman and discussed on the Fan (and on CP) and given his track record, certainly has the aroma of truth about it. Not a good look for the GM or the claim that he has the full support of ownership.

And I will disagree with your premise that the attempted Kadri trade speaks to his will to make a deal. I'd say the fact that no other deal was consummated speaks even more to his will. Do you make a trade just to make trade? Of course not. But when the alternative is continued decay, you go out and make the best deal you can. Because the next deal will likely only get worse.

As I'm typing all of this, I realize I am sounding far more negative on Treliving than I actually am. At this point, I probably consider him about an average NHL GM. Pro sports is about winning though, and you can't be Ok with average even if it means taking a risk in finding a successor.

His approach is simply not working well enough.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Ok, ok, the Kadri deal. Big improvement... It would have made the team weaker at D and given them yet another C, not a RW. Probably would have been great in the room, he could have made the throat slash gesture to Gio when he coughed up the puck.



The NTC is a risk of trying to make that deal and Tre pursued it and failed.



Hardly a feather in Tre’s cap of any sort

Not a feather in his cap. But it completely debunks this bizarre idea that Treliving has been "sitting on his hands," or "in love with his core," or "content to bring them all back."

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[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But you are attempting to rewrite history on the basis of hindsight. Coming in to the 2017-18 season Treliving made dramatic changes; a few of which looked like they worked out well. That summer he completed a trade that would have significantly improved the team, but it fell through because of s NTC. With everything that transpired I don't see how the five years prior to 2020 are relevant to the discussion of the need to reshape the core.

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Come on man, we don't even know all then pieces of the trade (that didn't happen) and you're proclaiming it a major coup for Treliving?

And now everything that happened before 2020 is off the table for discussion?

This chicken salad tastes like something else.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Ok, ok, the Kadri deal. Big improvement... It would have made the team weaker at D and given them yet another C, not a RW. Probably would have been great in the room, he could have made the throat slash gesture to Gio when he coughed up the puck.

The NTC is a risk of trying to make that deal and Tre pursued it and failed.

Hardly a feather in Tre’s cap of any sort

Had the Kadri deal gone through, who knows what follows? Is Treliving done? Do other trades follow? It changes way too much to know. None of it matters though, so your criticism doesn’t mean much either. It’s just shrouded in negativity.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Treliving's attempt to buyout Neal was reported IIRC by Friedman and discussed on the Fan (and on CP) and given his track record, certainly has the aroma of truth about it. Not a good look for the GM or the claim that he has the full support of ownership.

Thanks for that. I personally don't think it reflects one way or another on the GM's relationship or trust level with ownership.

And I will disagree with your premise that the attempted Kadri trade speaks to his will to make a deal. I'd say the fact that no other deal was consummated speaks even more to his will. Do you make a trade just to make trade? Of course not. But when the alternative is continued decay, you go out and make the best deal you can. Because the next deal will likely only get worse.

How easy or difficult do you believe it is to put together a deal like the one for Kadri?How much time do you believe such a deal takes to pull together? I think it is easy for us to say, "Just go and make another deal." But I bet it is a hell of a lot more difficult than all that.

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[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Ok, ok, the Kadri deal. Big improvement... It would have made the team weaker at D and given them yet another C, not a RW. Probably would have been great in the room, he could have made the throat slash gesture to Gio when he coughed up the puck.

The NTC is a risk of trying to make that deal and Tre pursued it and failed.

Hardly a feather in Tre’s cap of any sort

Another C which would have left Lindholm at RW. Weaker at D until presumably they get Tanev just like they ended up doing.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Come on man, we don't even know all then pieces of the trade (that didn't happen) and you're proclaiming it a major coup for Treliving?



And now everything that happened before 2020 is off the table for discussion?



This chicken salad tastes like something else.

That's not really what I am saying. My point is that complaints about the fact that Gaudreau and/or Monahan were not moved before 2020 are baseless with everything else considered.

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[Two Fivenagame]

Yeah I appreciate your points TC. I just keep reading a lot of excuses and frankly they seem a little weak. The Brodie/Kadri example: If one trade doesn't happen, why not use those assets in a different trade. Is Toronto the only team that was interested in Brodie? What was the second best offer?

All the work BT has done has brought the team to.... what... repeat first round embarrassments and a coach mill? His beloved core has churned through coaches almost annually during his tenure.

[Strange Brew]

nm