Brad Treliving needs to go

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

From what I can see, it looks like Treliving was trying to build a skilled team that can play possession style hockey, very connected, very strong D-core that can pinch or jump in and act as a 4th forward to sustain offensive zone time.

Problem is, I think that vision has failed and now he’ll be pivoting and going the opposite direction. Less skill and more will. If Treliving does stays on, my guess is he’ll probably look to trade the skilled players and add hard hat, lunch pail types who will play simple, basic, north-south no nonsense hockey, less east-west types. This team will probably focus on giving up less goals and winning 2-1 instead of 3-1.

What makes you think that these are the types of players Treliving is targeting moving forward?

[transplant99]

I like how 25 goal while being good defensive guys are now considered "mediocre" hockey players.

Whatever it takes to fit the narrative i guess.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Well considering Johnny Gaudreau was an RFA who had no arbitration rights and no ability to sign an offer sheet, I would say it’s pretty easy to negotiate when you hold virtually all the leverage and bargaining power. So sure, I can give Treliving credit for that along with other RFA re-signings. But in the grand scheme of things, one James Neal contract or one Troy Brouwer contract or one Michael Stone contract and others can easily derail any cap savings garnered from shrewd re-signings.

Treliving has had 7 years to take this team with great young pieces, solid foundational core players, a good cap situation to the next level and he hasn’t, not even close. They’ve dominated in their last 3 or 4 first round playoff series. They’ve made it to the playoffs in consecutive seasons only once and their previously wide open window looks to be shutting. The core players of this team that Treliving chose to ride with are consistently being subjected to trade proposals every day here. This group has seen 5 head coaches under Treliving’s watch. What’s so great about our situation in your opinion?

There’s a lot of defenses that you’re throwing, but compared to every Canadian team right now, the Flames are in the worst position. The window is closing quick, the cupboards are look pretty barren. Honestly, the poorly run Ottawa Senators with a meddlesome owner appear to turning the corner pretty quick here. The Flames on the other-hand look like a team that’s ready to be mediocre for the next several years and that’s death in the NHL.

Well, perhaps I’m too much of an optimist.

I don’t think this window is closing. I think the Flames are well suited to ship out one or two pieces this off season and maintain their competitive balance. If the situation is that dire, why did Sutter come back?

[Kasi]

Yeah this whole discussion is somewhat pointless. If they are throwing in the towel on this current group than yeah I agree Treveling likely isn’t the guy to go through the next build. But if they were doing that they wouldn’t have hired Sutter. Sutter isn’t interested in a rebuild. They’ll do a retool and for that Treveling will stay.

[Two Fivenagame]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Treliving traded Brodie to Toronto in 2019 for Nazeem Kadri. It was a done deal that was kiboshed by Kadri deciding to invoke his NTC protection.

Hamonic was not an easy player to move at any point in 2019, and by the TD last year he was already sidelined with an injury, and untradeable.

Neither player qualifies as as an an example of the GM "fall[ing] in love with his own team."

Sorry, I thought Hamonic returned just before the TDL.

As for Brodie, that deal was in the offseason if I recall. TDL arrives and Brodie stays. Surely there must have been partners willing to trade higher draft picks for TJ Freakin Brodie at that time?

As for evidence the GM has fallen in love with his team....

In the last 5 games since the hail-mary to Darryl "I've retired from coaching hockey" Sutter, Johnny & Monny have combined for a pitiful 3 points and -3 in the most desperate hockey games of the season.

That should sound familiar because that's what they do in the playoffs.

They should have been gone last offseason.

And yet they're still on the roster.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

Sorry, I thought Hamonic returned just before the TDL.

As for Brodie, that deal was in the offseason if I recall. TDL arrives and Brodie stays. Surely there must have been partners willing to trade higher draft picks for TJ Freakin Brodie at that time?

As for evidence the GM has fallen in love with his team....

In the last 5 games since the hail-mary to Darryl "I've retired from coaching hockey" Sutter, Johnny & Monny have combined for a pitiful 3 points and -3 in the most desperate hockey games of the season.

That should sound familiar because that's what they do in the playoffs.

They should have been gone last offseason.

And yet they're still on the roster.

I think your underestimating the impact the pandemic and a flat cap is having. How many trades of significance where core pieces are involved has there been since last March? Not many. Domi-Anderson, Liane-PLD. Are there any more?

Laying the lack of trades at the feet of Treliving is misguided. Should go without saying, but you need another GM to want to make the trade as well.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

Sorry, I thought Hamonic returned just before the TDL.

As for Brodie, that deal was in the offseason if I recall. TDL arrives and Brodie stays. Surely there must have been partners willing to trade higher draft picks for TJ Freakin Brodie at that time?

The Flames were on track to make the playoffs. Whether or not we like what happened, there was no way Treliving was moving his #2 defenseman in the middle of a playoff race. It might have been something he would have considered if there were players ready to step in, but the Flames were already missing Hamonic.

As for evidence the GM has fallen in love with his team....

In the last 5 games since the hail-mary to Darryl "I've retired from coaching hockey" Sutter, Johnny & Monny have combined for a pitiful 3 points and -3 in the most desperate hockey games of the season.

That should sound familiar because that's what they do in the playoffs.

They should have been gone last offseason.

And yet they're still on the roster.

I have no doubt that under normal circumstances one of Monahan or Gaudreau would have been traded in the off-season. There were a total of five hockey trades in the off-season before the Laine for Dubois swap, and most of these were of a fairly insignificant variety:

· F Marcus Johansson for F Eric Staal
· D Mike Matheson; F Colton Sceviour for F Patric Hornqvist
· F Josh Anderson for F Max Domi; 2020 3rd-Round Pick
· D Anton Lindholm; D Nikita Zadorov for D Dennis Gilbert; F Brandon Saad
· F Cedric Paquette; D Braydon Coburn; 2022 2nd-Round Pick for F Marian Gaborik; G Anders Nilsson

What do you see there that the Flames missed out on?

I think that COVID 19 has made it incredibly difficult to make deals, which is why there have been so few of them. I would suggest that this more than anything is the reason why both Gaudreau and Monahan are still on the roster, and not because of some supposed unbreakable attachment by the GM.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The Flames were on track to make the playoffs. Whether or not we like what happened, there was no way Treliving was moving his #2 defenseman in the middle of a playoff race. It might have been something he would have considered if there were players ready to step in, but the Flames were already missing Hamonic.


I have no doubt that user normal circumstances one of Monahan or Gaudreau would have been traded in the off-season. There were a total of five hockey trades in the off-season before the Laine for Dubois swap, and most of these were of a fairly insignificant variety:

· F Marcus Johansson for F Eric Staal
· D Mike Matheson; F Colton Sceviour for F Patric Hornqvist
· F Josh Anderson for F Max Domi; 2020 3rd-Round Pick
· D Anton Lindholm; D Nikita Zadorov for D Dennis Gilbert; F Brandon Saad
· F Cedric Paquette; D Braydon Coburn; 2022 2nd-Round Pick for F Marian Gaborik; G Anders Nilsson

What do you see there that the Flames missed out on?

I think that COVID 19 has made it incredibly difficult to make deals, which is why there have been so few of them. I would suggest that this more than anything is the reason why both Gaudreau and Monahan are still on the roster, and not because of some supposed unbreakable attachment by the GM.

RE: Brodie

I suspect had Brodie not signed with the Leafs, he would have resigned in Calgary. Nevertheless, Treliving signed Tanev and I’m not convinced the Flames blueline is any worse off for it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TOfan

RE: Brodie

I suspect had Brodie not signed with the Leafs, he would have resigned in Calgary. Nevertheless, Treliving signed Tanev and I’m not convinced the Flames blueline is any worse off for it.

100% hindsight but I bet Toronto would have traded for Gio in the offseason - maybe picks - and that would have created room for Brodie to be re-signed. It would have made sense. Gio’s a Toronto boy and, on paper, he was more of what Toronto needed than Brodie.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

100% hindsight but I bet Toronto would have traded for Gio in the offseason - maybe picks - and that would have created room for Brodie to be re-signed. It would have made sense. Gio’s a Toronto boy and, on paper, he was more of what Toronto needed than Brodie.

Not so sure they'd have preferred Gio considering they already had Muzzin and Rielly on the left side (with Dermott as good value on the bottom pair left side). Tanev might have actually been the ideal for them.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Not so sure they'd have preferred Gio considering they already had Muzzin and Rielly on the left side (with Dermott as good value on the bottom pair left side). Tanev might have actually been the ideal for them.

The Leafs with Tanev shutting down opposition would be outright a contender, assuming a goalie stepped up.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The Flames were on track to make the playoffs. Whether or not we like what happened, there was no way Treliving was moving his #2 defenseman in the middle of a playoff race. It might have been something he would have considered if there were players ready to step in, but the Flames were already missing Hamonic.


I have no doubt that under normal circumstances one of Monahan or Gaudreau would have been traded in the off-season. There were a total of five hockey trades in the off-season before the Laine for Dubois swap, and most of these were of a fairly insignificant variety:

· F Marcus Johansson for F Eric Staal
· D Mike Matheson; F Colton Sceviour for F Patric Hornqvist
· F Josh Anderson for F Max Domi; 2020 3rd-Round Pick
· D Anton Lindholm; D Nikita Zadorov for D Dennis Gilbert; F Brandon Saad
· F Cedric Paquette; D Braydon Coburn; 2022 2nd-Round Pick for F Marian Gaborik; G Anders Nilsson

What do you see there that the Flames missed out on?

I think that COVID 19 has made it incredibly difficult to make deals, which is why there have been so few of them. I would suggest that this more than anything is the reason why both Gaudreau and Monahan are still on the roster, and not because of some supposed unbreakable attachment by the GM.

It has been apparent that this core group of players needed a change since the Colorado series. That was in 2019.

There have been a whole lot of trades in the NHL since then.

Treliving acquired Lucic.

[Kasi]

Teams get upset by lower seeds all the time. This is hardly the first time in pro sports that a number one seed has lost first round. Many have followed that up with a deeper run the next season. While in hindsight they should have sold Gaudreau then no team would have sold coming off a #2 overall seed.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It has been apparent that this core group of players needed a change since the Colorado series. That was in 2019.



There have been a whole lot of trades in the NHL since then.



Treliving acquired Lucic.

He also traded Brodie for Nazem Kadri.

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[dino7c]

Most playoff teams add something at the deadline or at least try to...Very rarely does a team in a playoff spot trade all their UFAs. Sure with hindsight its easy, everyone but Tampa should have sold last deadline.

Same this time after only one team ends up winning

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TOfan

RE: Brodie

I suspect had Brodie not signed with the Leafs, he would have resigned in Calgary. Nevertheless, Treliving signed Tanev and I’m not convinced the Flames blueline is any worse off for it.

I love what Tanev has brought. The problem with the Flames blueline is the $'s sunk into it. Neither Rasmus nor Gio are earning their paychecks this season. That's an $11.3 million pairing.

Last year it was only Hamonic you could really say that about.

It's hard to lay all that at Treliving's feet. But fact is, not enough guys on this roster are playing to their salary and the GM doesn't seem to have been able to preemptively take action on much of anything. Now we see a roster slowly bleeding value in a number of places.

I miss the days when we could crow about how better off we were having Gaudreau and Monahan both for not much more than McDavid's money.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

He also traded Brodie for Nazem Kadri.

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I see. He also bought out James Neal and in fact, did not acquire Lucic.

And gave up a ton of assets for a Taylor Hall rental.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I see. He also bought out James Neal and in fact, did not acquire Lucic.

No. He did not.

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[dino7c]

I would rather have Tanev than Brodie personally

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No. He did not.

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Sorry but I don't see much of a difference in having ownership reject your buyout request vs. a player rejecting your trade request.