What would you give up for Eichel?

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

It’s probably worth revisiting what makes a contender a contender, and then we can see where the gaps in this roster pop up.

Apologies in advance for using the 2004 Lightning as an example - I do think it underscores my point.

#1C (Lecavalier)
#2C who’d be a #1 on most teams (Richards)
1 or more high-skill wingers (St-Louis, Stillman, Fedotenko)
#3F who’d be a #2C on most teams (Modin)

#1D who plays 25+ a night in the playoffs. (No one)
4D who can play mistake-free hockey. (5 defensemen averaged 18 minutes or more a game)

#1G who can play .920 or better for long periods and steal one game out of 7. (Khabibulin, .933, 1.71)

Elite head coach. (Tortorella)

Fill out the rest as you see fit, but without two elite centres, a goalie and a coach, you’re dead in the water.

Applying this to the Flames:

#1C - no. We’re not even sure Our #1C is a centre - a not-insignificant portion of the board wants him back at RW.
1 or more high skill wingers - yes. God damn, does this team love collecting high skill wingers. FFS.
#2C who’d be a #1 on most teams - no.
#3C - yes.

#1D who you’d play 25+ a night - no.
4D to play relatively mistake free hockey - maybe - I think this blue line has about a billion times more talent and ability than the 2004 one, but the entire league is different.

#1G - yes, I think Markstrom is the sort of talent that Sutter can succeed with.

Coach- yes.

You can win with all the ingredients and still have an idiot GM. I’d still replace Treliving this summer.

You're 100% right. When all is said and done, because the Flames lack a solid prospect base, depth and high powered C, the only way they're in a position to acquire a 1A Centre without messing their future, is through the draft. Free agency costs too much but is the second best option. Trades require prospect depth or draft picks which they can't afford to give up, though their prospects aren't anything that special either right now. So, to me at this point that means if you go the rebuild direction, trade Johnny and Monahan and tank for a year to get next years high draft picks. After that build right.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Anything from the roster but not our 1st round draft picks.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

It’s probably worth revisiting what makes a contender a contender, and then we can see where the gaps in this roster pop up.

Apologies in advance for using the 2004 Lightning as an example - I do think it underscores my point.

#1C (Lecavalier)
#2C who’d be a #1 on most teams (Richards)
1 or more high-skill wingers (St-Louis, Stillman, Fedotenko)
#3F who’d be a #2C on most teams (Modin)

#1D who plays 25+ a night in the playoffs. (No one)
4D who can play mistake-free hockey. (5 defensemen averaged 18 minutes or more a game)

#1G who can play .920 or better for long periods and steal one game out of 7. (Khabibulin, .933, 1.71)

Elite head coach. (Tortorella)

Fill out the rest as you see fit, but without two elite centres, a goalie and a coach, you’re dead in the water.

Applying this to the Flames:

#1C - no. We’re not even sure Our #1C is a centre - a not-insignificant portion of the board wants him back at RW.
1 or more high skill wingers - yes. God damn, does this team love collecting high skill wingers. FFS.
#2C who’d be a #1 on most teams - no.
#3C - yes.

#1D who you’d play 25+ a night - no.
4D to play relatively mistake free hockey - maybe - I think this blue line has about a billion times more talent and ability than the 2004 one, but the entire league is different.

#1G - yes, I think Markstrom is the sort of talent that Sutter can succeed with.

Coach- yes.

You can win with all the ingredients and still have an idiot GM. I’d still replace Treliving this summer.

Yet a team that had only two of those things beat them in 6 games.

[SportsJunky]

Eichel is a game changer. Can you imagine him playing with Gaudreau or Tkachuk on his wing?
Gotta start with Monahan, I think. I'd add Hanifin and Zary plus a 1st. Maybe a defenseman like Miller comes back to even things out.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Eichel is a game changer. Can you imagine him playing with Gaudreau or Tkachuk on his wing?
Gotta start with Monahan, I think. I'd add Hanifin and Zary plus a 1st. Maybe a defenseman like Miller comes back to even things out.

Well, he played with Hall on his wing.

Seriously, this is the best chance Calgary’s ever had to get an elite C, so they should make every effort. It’s pretty hard with (a) other bidders and (b) the cap.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yet a team that had only two of those things beat them in 6 games.

I don't think there is one single, slam dunk blueprint to win but that list is something that should be aimed at. Of course there's a chance to limp into the playoffs and get hot at the right time and win but the chances are much lower.

[Flames_F.T.W]

I think a lot of people are forgetting that IF Eichel gets traded its because he wants out and requests a trade. That will make the return much different than if we were trying to get a happy Eichel out of a successful Buffalo... so if we acquire Eichel it won't be for our 5 best players making us Bufflo-West.

[dissentowner]

Monahan would have to be the main piece going back. The Sabres need a C back and Buffalo is a place I can see Mony staying long term. Stop adding Gaudreau into these proposals, there is no way he is re-signing there and the Sabres will know that. Unless they think they can flip him. Some of these proposals are not enough but some of them are just insane. Monahan+Gaudreau+Zary+1st is too much, that is a ridiculously huge overpayment for a guy that while is a true #1C with 100 point potential also seems to have issues staying healthy. I think Monahan+Bennett+Kylington+1st and 2nd in 2021 is about fair value.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yet a team that had only two of those things beat them in 6 games.

Indeed. And yet, history records it otherwise.

[jayswin]

All you guys talking about Eichel while I'm still trying to figure what this sentence meant.

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Think you've been covering the coyotes as much as I appreciate your contributions here.

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Not sure I follow?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

I agree. And I think we all saw a window opening with the rise of Giordano, but it's now closing, and the difference, all the difference in the world, is that the Bennett pick didn't turn into a star 1c. That changes absolutely everything about the team. The Neal signing hurt almost as much. And now... yeah I don't even know how you fix it. Sell high and try again?

I mean, they didn’t bring Sutter off the farm to rebuild.

If you bring in Eichel, jettison Monahan and Gaudreau, and build down the middle with Eichel, Lindholm and Backlund, I think there’s lots to like about the rest of the roster.

Our big issue seems to be a glaring lack of star power. We have fine secondary pieces, but we might have the most easily-neutralized collection of “stars” in the league.

[Flames_F.T.W]

Goaltending and defense are solid. This team doesn't have a true star forward, just a few Phil Kessel caliber secondary pieces. It also hurts that Johnny and Monny are useless at 5on5

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

I think a lot of people are forgetting that IF Eichel gets traded its because he wants out and requests a trade. That will make the return much different than if we were trying to get a happy Eichel out of a successful Buffalo... so if we acquire Eichel it won't be for our 5 best players making us Bufflo-West.

People seem to also be forgetting that the reason he wants out is to stop losing.

He has no interest in being part of ANOTHER rebuild. Dismantling your roster to get him lands you a miserable player who wants out again.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

People seem to also be forgetting that the reason he wants out is to stop losing.

He has no interest in being part of ANOTHER rebuild. Dismantling your roster to get him lands you a miserable player who wants out again.

Hence, getting traded for Monahan and Gaudreau.

It’s way easier to acquire a top-6 winger with some finish for a song - we make the mistake all the time over paying to acquire them.

We should overpay and acquire Eichel. I’m inclined to give that player the benefit of the doubt, given the organizational futility that surrounds him.

And if nothing else, the Flames are try hards - never out of it, never contenders (because they haven’t had the pieces in 30 years) but always around.

There is something to be said for that. They’re not the Sabres.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

The Athletic has a story right now where they took some reader trade proposals and put them in front of NHL execs to ask which side says no. Here is the Eichel trade:

Buffalo Sabres send Jack Eichel to the Avalanche for defenseman Bowen Byram, Alex Newhook, 2021 second-round pick, unprotected 2022 first-round pick.

That is a better package than what has been proposed in here, and better than probably anything Calgary could realistically offer... and still the NHL execs say Buffalo wouldn't take it.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

The Athletic has a story right now where they took some reader trade proposals and put them in front of NHL execs to ask which side says no. Here is the Eichel trade:



That is a better package than what has been proposed in here, and better than probably anything Calgary could realistically offer... and still the NHL execs say Buffalo wouldn't take it.

Disagree, both Bryam and Newhook have proven nothing in the NHL so far. They COULD turn into huge stars but have just as much chance to be “ok” and a small chance to bust. Unproven assets are a bad choice for an Eichel trade imo, Buffalo would be stupid. And no 1st? Yikes

Monahan is the highest goal scoring player from the 2013 draft ahead of both Mack and Barkov. He would slide right in Buffalo as a top 2C. I think the flames offer posted above blows this one out of the water, lots seem to have a hate for Monahan but he’s still an effective 20g+ Center since being drafted.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Monahan + Andersson + next year's first. Salary swap works out pretty well too.

If that's not enough then you pass and take your chances on developing your own assets and trading underperforming players for futures.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I mean, they didn’t bring Sutter off the farm to rebuild.

If you bring in Eichel, jettison Monahan and Gaudreau, and build down the middle with Eichel, Lindholm and Backlund, I think there’s lots to like about the rest of the roster.

Our big issue seems to be a glaring lack of star power. We have fine secondary pieces, but we might have the most easily-neutralized collection of “stars” in the league.

I agree with this. Some are saying if the Flames part with guys like Monahan, Gaudreau, Gio and our first or guys like Zary we would be just as bad as Buffalo. I disagree as I believe Buffalo is in a very bad unfixable spot because they have Okposo and Skinner at $15 mil. Take that off the books and they could easily load up and keep Eichel. It's killing that franchise.

Doesn't help that Hall is a UFA and Reinhart and Risto are getting close to being a UFA. They could fix this team in a few years but Eichel isn't giving them that option.

The Flames have Lucic but IMO he has been more valuable that Skinner and Okposo have been and he is costing the Flames less in cap space.

If the Flames trade guys like Gaudreau, Monahan and Zary and maybe 1 first to get Eichel their roster isn't that bad

A lot of talk about Phillips and Ruzicka. Why having more top end talent makes it easier to build a team is there usually is more spots for youth to come up and make the team. I'm not saying these guys replace Johnny and Monny but with Eichel they don't need to.

Pellitier/Zary also have more room to crack the roster. If we could keep 1 and acquire Eichel there is top 9 room for these guys as well

If all these prospects flop then we miss the playoffs and add another top end prospect. I'm sure if the Flames miss the playoffs once maybe Eichel will be ok with it. Complete rebuild he may not want to be a part of that but I believe we can add Eichel and not completely rebuild if we move some guys to a 3rd team to load up an offer to Buffalo

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Monahan + Andersson + next year's first. Salary swap works out pretty well too.

If that's not enough then you pass and take your chances on developing your own assets and trading underperforming players for futures.

It’s Jack Eichel - the last three years, he has 22, 20 and 24 goals at 5v5 alone.

He’s a #1C.

They’re like quarterbacks - if you can get one, pay the cost.

What might have been if Darryl had ponied up Regehr to the Bruins for Thornton.

Time is a flat circle though, so whatcha gonna do.

[Itse]

I don't get the hype for Eichel.

Good player sure, but puts up less goals than Monahan and less points than Gaudreau, and I don't see him elevating his team like actual superstars.