Canada Should Not Participate in the 2022 Winter Olympics

[PepsiFree]

I understand the need to do something, but I’m having trouble taking this seriously when people seem dead-set on “something” continuously being brought back to the Olympics (and buying iPhones LOL).

We know boycotting the Olympics will do nothing. We’ve seen exactly how this plays out and we’ve seen it play out with countries that have much more international weight than we do, and it still accomplished nothing.

If you want to talk about Olympics or iPhones because it feels good and makes you feel good, fine. But it’s virtue signalling and that’s it. There’s is no conversation about real impact to be had without real policy to back it up. If you think our attendance at the Olympics is going to change anything outside of how you feel, you’re living in a fantasy land.

The only angle this has a chance of doing anything are the actual athletes boycotting despite Canada’s insisting on going. Put the pressure on Canada (or insert whatever country) to make actual policy changes that put pressure on China. Otherwise Canada boycotting without policy changes is nothing. It’s like governing politicians protesting human rights abuses at homes. YOU are the ones with power to do something. YOU can do more than protest, so do it.

[81MC]

So if genocide, arbitrary detention, violation of international law, and economic enslavement aren’t worth the economic damage to make a meaningful stand at this time, I suppose we will never. China’s role in the global economy is getting larger and larger, and it will never be ‘easier’ to deal with economics making a stand in the name of human rights.

####ing gross.

I couldn’t disagree more with this stance. At what point do we decide that an economy that relies on blatantly criminal participants is one that needs rework? We were willing to decimate sectors in the name of Covid, but we’re willing to let the guys with the knife at our throats carry on so they don’t cut our head right off? I don’t buy it.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I understand the need to do something, but I’m having trouble taking this seriously when people seem dead-set on “something” continuously being brought back to the Olympics (and buying iPhones LOL).

We know boycotting the Olympics will do nothing. We’ve seen exactly how this plays out and we’ve seen it play out with countries that have much more international weight than we do, and it still accomplished nothing.

If you want to talk about Olympics or iPhones because it feels good and makes you feel good, fine. But it’s virtue signalling and that’s it. There’s is no conversation about real impact to be had without real policy to back it up. If you think our attendance at the Olympics is going to change anything outside of how you feel, you’re living in a fantasy land.

The only angle this has a chance of doing anything are the actual athletes boycotting despite Canada’s insisting on going. Put the pressure on Canada (or insert whatever country) to make actual policy changes that put pressure on China. Otherwise Canada boycotting without policy changes is nothing. It’s like governing politicians protesting human rights abuses at homes. YOU are the ones with power to do something. YOU can do more than protest, so do it.

That ship has sailed too. Athletes love the Olympic Ideal. They've been brainwashed into it. It's so bad that professional, millionaire NHL players stupidly bargain things away to go to the Olympics.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by 81MC

So if genocide, arbitrary detention, violation of international law, and economic enslavement aren’t worth the economic damage to make a meaningful stand at this time, I suppose we will never. China’s role in the global economy is getting larger and larger, and it will never be ‘easier’ to deal with economics making a stand in the name of human rights.

####ing gross.

I couldn’t disagree more with this stance. At what point do we decide that an economy that relies on blatantly criminal participants is one that needs rework? We were willing to decimate sectors in the name of Covid, but we’re willing to let the guys with the knife at our throats carry on so they don’t cut our head right off? I don’t buy it.

These are not new. These were are all there when we entered the Chinese market. I guess we were hoping our dollars would turn China democratic. Instead they only turned hyper-capitalist and used it on us.



You are right. We shut down due to a medical risk, but not a moral one.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I understand the need to do something, but I’m having trouble taking this seriously when people seem dead-set on “something” continuously being brought back to the Olympics (and buying iPhones LOL).

We know boycotting the Olympics will do nothing.

YOU can do more than protest, so do it.

I don't understand why you think that if Canada decides not to participate in the Olympics, that all other options with China are off the table.

This thread is about going to the Olympics: yes or no. It's not "Hey should we not go to the Olympics, but if we don't obviously that's all that needs to be done, China problem solved". Hopefully people aren't that stupid - some will be, but that's beside the point, it isn't what the thread is about. It's a simple question, go or don't go? Some people seem to think we don't go, because we don't want any part of what will be a big pro-China extravaganza, and some people want to go for the benefit of the athletes, and because they're worried about retribution. Fair enough, room for reasoned disagreement. But the argument, "not going won't stop China from being awful" doesn't make any sense. That's not the point of not going.

Suppose you knew a guy who you knew was a complete #######. He's a racist towards one particular minority, he treats everyone he was in a relationship with like garbage while also interfering with and bullying everyone possible, and he is in the process of doing life-changing harm to two friends of yours named Michael. He's having a big birthday bash that's going to be extremely over the top and he's going to make sure that everything that happens that night is going to be all about what a fantastic, successful, amazing guy he is. Not attending won't make him any less of a jerk - he'll barely notice you're not there. But this is about what you think you should do. Would you attend? Granted, you'll get some good food and drink out of it, and maybe make some memories, but you'll have to be part of... that.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

So much depends on the goal of the boycott.

If it is to take a moral stand, then by all means, have at it, as there are more than enough examples to justify taking a stand against China.

If it is to make any difference on how the games are viewed or if is to change China’s behaviour? I think it is largely an empty gesture and basically pointless.

What I don’t really understand, is the issues surrounding Meng’s extradition. How strong is the US case? This seems to be driving most of the conversation (at least when it comes to the Michaels), that I would prefer Canada to address that issue head on.

Sure and that's why she's getting her court date and the full attention of the justice system without the government interfering in it, as you know it should be. However, China responded by taking hostages, and running them through a Kangeroo court where the government dictates the verdict.



Meng and its legitimacy will certainly be settled properly and legally. The Michael's will continue to be abused and tortured and denied basic human rights.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I don't understand why you think that if Canada decides not to participate in the Olympics, that all other options with China are off the table.

This thread is about going to the Olympics: yes or no. It's not "Hey should we not go to the Olympics, but if we don't obviously that's all that needs to be done, China problem solved". Hopefully people aren't that stupid - some will be, but that's beside the point, it isn't what the thread is about. It's a simple question, go or don't go? Some people seem to think we don't go, because we don't want any part of what will be a big pro-China extravaganza, and some people want to go for the benefit of the athletes, and because they're worried about retribution. Fair enough, room for reasoned disagreement. But the argument, "not going won't stop China from being awful" doesn't make any sense. That's not the point of not going.

Suppose you knew a guy who you knew was a complete #######. He's a racist towards one particular minority, he treats everyone he was in a relationship with like garbage while also interfering with and bullying everyone possible, and he is in the process of doing life-changing harm to two friends of yours named Michael. He's having a big birthday bash that's going to be extremely over the top and he's going to make sure that everything that happens that night is going to be all about what a fantastic, successful, amazing guy he is. Granted, you'll get some good food and drink out of it, and maybe make some memories, but you'll have to be part of... that. Would you attend?

Analogy doesn't quite fit. It's not just about one person, a government has do what's best for the country and its citizens. So does this ####### make all the stuff you buy? Does he hire all your family members? Will he cut ties with everyone you know that depend on him? Him penalizing you will hurt you and your family for a long time. Sure you can all start again, but think about that for a bulk of an entire country's economy.


And if you don't go to the party but your richer neighbor goes, his people are just going to replace your people.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I don't understand why you think that if Canada decides not to participate in the Olympics, that all other options with China are off the table.

This thread is about going to the Olympics: yes or no. It's not "Hey should we not go to the Olympics, but if we don't obviously that's all that needs to be done, China problem solved". Hopefully people aren't that stupid - some will be, but that's beside the point, it isn't what the thread is about. It's a simple question, go or don't go? Some people seem to think we don't go, because we don't want any part of what will be a big pro-China extravaganza, and some people want to go for the benefit of the athletes, and because they're worried about retribution. Fair enough, room for reasoned disagreement. But the argument, "not going won't stop China from being awful" doesn't make any sense. That's not the point of not going.

And for some people that is the point, so if that’s not you, my comment doesn’t apply to you.

[Flamenspiel]

I think it will happen, certainly if it escalates. The boycott in 1980 was a direct response to the invasion of Afghanistan. Xi is starting to get reckless, and there is a year to go, any sort of mass casualty or major attack on infrastructure would make it a sure thing.

Biden is already pushing buttons and the Russians really have nothing to lose as they are already out. Never mind the Olympics, neither side is backing down right now and the Olympics could be an afterthought by next winter.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Girlysports

Does he hire all your family members? Will he cut ties with everyone you know that depend on him? Him penalizing you will hurt you and your family for a long time. Sure you can all start again, but think about that for a bulk of an entire country's economy.

This is all well and good, and I specifically said that there was room for disagreement about whether the potential for retribution is enough to make us bow our heads and go along, effectively saying, "please don't hurt us, economic overlords". That's an argument that's worth having and I'm honestly not sure if I disagree, even though it makes me kind of sick to be part of a country that has to cower like that. Hence my earlier post in which I said I think my position is, "don't go, as long as we're not standing alone in not going."

But what I was talking about in the thing you quoted was Pepsifree's post about not going for a different reason - that this action won't change the way China behaves. That's simply not the deciding factor. There are, I think, lots of instances where you decline to be part of something not because it'll stop that something from happening, or that you think it'll change anyone's mind, but rather because you simply don't want to be part of it. That's the question here.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And for some people that is the point, so if that’s not you, my comment doesn’t apply to you.

Well, that's exactly what I'm trying to say. If that's the point for you, you're essentially telling me, "well, might as well go to the party, because not going isn't going to make this ####### not be an #######". That you're the sort of person who would be fine with participating in that celebration in those circumstances. I assume most people wouldn't be fine with that - that they wouldn't go just because they don't want to be part of it, regardless of what the ####### having the party thinks or does about that decision - but maybe I'm wrong.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This is all well and good, and I specifically said that there was room for disagreement about whether the potential for retribution is enough to make us bow our heads and go along, effectively saying, "please don't hurt us, economic overlords". That's an argument that's worth having and I'm honestly not sure if I disagree, even though it makes me kind of sick to be part of a country that has to cower like that. Hence my earlier post in which I said I think my position is, "don't go, as long as we're not standing alone in not going."

But what I was talking about in the thing you quoted was Pepsifree's post about not going for a different reason - that this action won't change the way China behaves. That's simply not the deciding factor. There are, I think, lots of instances where you decline to be part of something not because it'll stop that something from happening, or that you think it'll change anyone's mind, but rather because you simply don't want to be part of it. That's the question here.
.

That's why I answered the way I did. Put aside the host country for a moment. There's no way Canada does not want to be part of this. They LOVE the Olympics, especially the Winter Games. The country loves it, the athletes love it. People still talk about how great the Vancouver Games were. COC was pretty upset that Calgary Council withdrew the 2026 bid and will probably never choose Calgary again. I think these feelings outweigh the politics of the IOC (or of FIFA). Heck Canada's bidding for events after Beijing (twice) and Qatar were awarded.

I actually see a scenario where the US boycotts and Canada still goes moreso then the other way around because it's a Winter Games.

[VladtheImpaler]

I like the points made on both sides of this debate. On the one hand I like the tone of CC's points. The NBA is dead to me since they spread their cheeks for China - I actively avoid any NBA content online, on the radio, etc. Obviously, the NBA doesn't care about ME, but I hope that there are many others doing what I am doing - maybe that can make a difference. As far as China goes, YOU personally can make sure that you don't buy anything made in China, even if you have to pay a little bit more. If that becomes a real movement on "our" side, it will hurt them. The economic/geopolitical reality is that Canada basically has to tack pretty close to the US, but it seems things are getting nastier, based on the Alaska meetings (unless that was just theater for media consumption, and understanding was reached quietly behind the scenes), so you may get your wish yet....

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That's why I answered the way I did. Put aside the host country for a moment. There's no way Canada does not want to be part of this. They LOVE the Olympics, especially the Winter Games. The country loves it, the athletes love it. People still talk about how great the Vancouver Games were. COC was pretty upset that Calgary Council withdrew the 2026 bid and will probably never choose Calgary again. I think these feelings outweigh the politics of the IOC (or of FIFA). Heck Canada's bidding for events after Beijing (twice) and Qatar were awarded.

Sure, and I like going to fun, extravagant parties. I'd like to be able to host a few of my own after this whole COVID thing happens. But no matter how much I love it, and no matter how great a party it's going to be, I'm not going to one put on by the moral equivalent of Jeffrey Epstein.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That's why I answered the way I did. Put aside the host country for a moment. There's no way Canada does not want to be part of this. They LOVE the Olympics, especially the Winter Games. The country loves it, the athletes love it. People still talk about how great the Vancouver Games were. COC was pretty upset that Calgary Council withdrew the 2026 bid and will probably never choose Calgary again. I think these feelings outweigh the politics of the IOC (or of FIFA). Heck Canada's bidding for events after Beijing (twice) and Qatar were awarded.

I actually see a scenario where the US boycotts and Canada still goes moreso then the other way around because it's a Winter Games.

I am personally a big Olympics fan and have attended the games in person many times, but this is just too much and too extreme. You have to draw the line at some point, particularly with them holding Canadian hostages.

Really it would be like the US attending an Olympics in Tehran while the hostages were being held there.

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Cheap.

To the point however, its not "let's do nothing", it's "there is nothing" we can do. Not that would make one bit of difference anyhow. China doesn't play by our rules, and if we want to do business with them (which is absolutely necessary at this point), then we do have to play by theirs.

If you want to get China on a level playing field, there is one way and one way only......and that is economically. Canada is in no position to do so however. We are a small fish in a great big pond.

Again...the only thing that occurs by not going to the Olympics is you hurt the athletes and coaches who have been training for them for years and years. In some cases the majority of their lives. It causes China zero embarrassment because....they don't care.

On top of which, politicizing sports is just gross.

You want to make a mark and show China their crap must stop? Get a coalition of G7 or G8+5 countries together and get them all to stop trade with them. That would actually matter and force changes.

Good luck with that.

I completely disagree, attending a party in a Country that is in the middle of a kidnaping situation involving two our citizens is gross. I don't care if you or Pepsi Free consider it virtue signaling. You have to start somewhere.

Captain has made many great point as well. The idea that we cant do anything so we just shouldn't bother is sickening. You are correct on one thing though, if we are never prepared to do anything individually we will never get a coalition of G7 countries to take Canada seriously in anything we do. That is how we got here.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Well, that's exactly what I'm trying to say. If that's the point for you, you're essentially telling me, "well, might as well go to the party, because not going isn't going to make this ####### not be an #######". That you're the sort of person who would be fine with participating in that celebration in those circumstances. I assume most people wouldn't be fine with that - that they wouldn't go just because they don't want to be part of it, regardless of what the ####### having the party thinks or does about that decision - but maybe I'm wrong.

Huh? I’m saying go or don’t go, but don’t think your decision is going to stop *analogy of some racist person* from being a racist.

If your position is “don’t go because it’s morally wrong to attend” then that’s great and valid. If your position is “don’t go because we need to stop China from what they’re doing” then it’s delusional nonsense.

Some people are conflating a moral decision with an impactful decision. If the point is change, this won’t accomplish it. That’s all.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Well, okay, then we're saying the same thing from different sides of the coin. It sounded like you thought that not going was just empty slacktivism and virtue signalling.

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Huh? I’m saying go or don’t go, but don’t think your decision is going to stop *analogy of some racist person* from being a racist.

If your position is “don’t go because it’s morally wrong to attend” then that’s great and valid. If your position is “don’t go because we need to stop China from what they’re doing” then it’s delusional nonsense.

Some people are conflating a moral decision with an impactful decision. If the point is change, this won’t accomplish it. That’s all.

This thread is about the Olympics. I don't see anyone saying that not attending the Olympics will free the Canadian hostages. Its just one thing of many. It took us decades to get to this point and it isn't going to change in even a year or two. For policy makers to actually do something impactful and meaningful we need to get the average Canadian voter on side and understanding that we will need to go through a period of difficulty and pain to achieve anything. If the common attitude is complacency and the common thought is that we are powerless, then yes we are. I believe you need to start with the little gestures sometimes before you can make that giant leap. But if that is just me and my virtue signaling, so be it.

[Manhattanboy]

It would be absolutely disgusting for Canada to be there in any capacity while two of our citizens rot in Chinese prisons.

Plain and simple. I would feel bad for our athletes but there are larger issues at play.

Just once I would like to see the IOC take a stand on something positive that doesn’t involve the lining of their own pockets. But hey they like to award the games to countries where human rights and the rule of law mean nothing so don’t expect them to say a thing.

[The Yen Man]

Let's be honest here. You can't even get Canadians to unite to fight a fricking pandemic virus that directly affects us. You think honestly that people are going to give up their accustomed way of life for something happening halfway across the globe that has nothing to do with them? There will be the normal sabre rattling that will amount to nothing. We can all call for not letting Canadian athletes go to make a statement, but it's easy for us regular Joe's to say that on a message board because it won't affect us and we give up nothing, while we expect the athletes who sacrificed years of training and time to just give it up for us.