[PGT] Flames beat Toronto, 4-3!

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Dion

https://twitter.com/user/status/1373098348375375875

Just a beauty in his randomness of how he treats questions also is it just me or does he seem kinda fond of Eric Francis strangely.

Like I feel like if it was not Eric asking some of those questions he would go to town.

“What was Wednesday?” Classic. Just a champ (literally). Hope he can get through to “I don’t care” Gaudreau.

[Dajazz]

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Dube
Tkachuk - Monahan - Mangiapane
Lucic - Backlund - Leivo
Bennett - Ryan - Simon

Either that or switch Mangiapane and Leivo.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Just a beauty in his randomness of how he treats questions also is it just me or does he seem kinda fond of Eric Francis strangely.

Like I feel like if it was not Eric asking some of those questions he would go to town.

“What was Wednesday?” Classic. Just a champ (literally). Hope he can get through to “I don’t care” Gaudreau.

Francis has some hard core opinions of the Flames and the players. Everytime he asks a question he's seeking validation for those views. A coach like Torts would cut him off but I think Sutter enjoys toying with Francis.

[Mr.Coffee]

Yeah I agree I also just think he has a certain amount of respect for Francis because Francis doesn’t just auto tow the company and has balls. That’s why people on CP don’t like Francis because he has the gall the *gasp* call out the Flames when they usually should be called out. A man like Sutter can and does likely respect that.

How can you respect a guy like Wills?

[D as in David]

How long until other teams figure out there is not much danger in pulling their goalie and go with an extra skater with five minutes left?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Yeah I agree I also just think he has a certain amount of respect for Francis because Francis doesn’t just auto tow the company and has balls. That’s why people on CP don’t like Francis because he has the gall the *gasp* call out the Flames when they usually should be called out. A man like Sutter can and does likely respect that.

How can you respect a guy like Wills?

This is not why people don't like Francis. It is because he needlessly sensationalists situations; like when he openly questioned Monahan's character while he was playing through injuries, and when he "guaranteed" that Gaudreau is unwilling to sign an extension in Calgary.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

That's why I think bringing back Tkachuk/Backlund/Mangiapane would be ideal. We KNOW that's a top line. It's one of the best lines in the league.

....
My dude, Please stop being so delusional, flames have no combination of forwards that would rank in any logical persons top ten 1st line combos in the nhl.

The top lines of Vegas, Colorado, Stl, Dallas, Washington, Pittsburgh, Tampa, Boston, Toronto, philly, Florida, etc. Are all miles ahead of Tkachuk backlund mangiapane....

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This is not why people don't like Francis. It is because he needlessly sensationalists situations; like when he openly questioned Monahan's character while he was playing through injuries, and when he "guaranteed" that Gaudreau is unwilling to sign an extension in Calgary.

But people that hear anti-Calgary things interpret that as sensationalizing. I’m not entirely disagreeing though. For example you’re right about the Monahan thing but I think he’s right about the Gaudreau thing. That is in my mind almost a certainty, and it’s actually fairly obvious to me and should be to other people too (separate topic though so I’ll leave it at that).

Francis sometimes sensationalizes I suppose but he’s not anywhere near as bad as people here make him seem. He just doesn’t tow the company line which I like. It’s better than Hrudey who is clearly an Oiler fan.

[Slanter]

Nm

[Flame On]

Late to the party but take that St. Pats!

[TheSkinner]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Dube
Tkachuk - Monahan - Mangiapane
Lucic - Backlund - Leivo
Bennett - Ryan - Simon

Either that or switch Mangiapane and Leivo.

As much as I like Mangiapane’s hustle... Tkachuk, Monahan, Mangiapane would be the slowest line combination.

Ritchie actually doesn’t do anything when he gets there but at least he skates well enough to get on pucks when they get dumped in.

I can’t see any of tkachuk Monahan or Mangiapane getting on pucks. Mangiapane is tenacious but he’s not a good skater.





I’m not sure that would work at all.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by RM14

Mangiapane, or Philips

You can't put Phillips on that line. He and Gaudreau are too small. They would get bullied

[dino7c]

Say what you want but Gaudreau is ####ing tough...Imagine being 150lbs and getting hit like that then not missing a shift. Guy needs to play with guys who can actually carry the puck though.

[DeluxeMoustache]

The Flames won tonight, my savages!

[TheSkinner]

Originally Posted by direwolf

Markstrom definitely saved our bacon in the 3rd and looked very confident throughout the 2nd half of the game. We're gonna need a lot more of that from him going forward, especially if our top line continues to be invisible.

He chicken-winged at two goals agains also. The second goal wasn’t good and Marner’s goal was from a distance and not a rocket of a wrist shot. A 6 Millon dollar man needs to be better than that.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

....
My dude, Please stop being so delusional, flames have no combination of forwards that would rank in any logical persons top ten 1st line combos in the nhl.

The top lines of Vegas, Colorado, Stl, Dallas, Washington, Pittsburgh, Tampa, Boston, Toronto, philly, Florida, etc. Are all miles ahead of Tkachuk backlund mangiapane....

hmmmmm let's see about that.

Spoiler due to post length.

Spoiler!

Since 2018-19...

Tkachuk-Backlund-xxxxx(Mangiapane, Frolik, whoever)
1450:58 together
55.99% of shot attempts
55.99% of shots
56.62% of goals
53.78% of expected goals
54.86% of scoring chances
53.75% of high-danger chances

Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane, specifically:
418:54 together
54.80% of shot attempts
56.43% of shots
56.82% of goals
55.40% of expected goals
54.39% of scoring chances
59.52% of high-danger chances

Pretty fantastic across the board. Let's compare that to some of the other lines you mentioned.

Since 2018-19...

Vegas

Pacioretty-xxxxx-Stone
1211:13 together
58.92% of shot attempts
60.17% of shots
63.17% of goals
62.82% of expected goals
61.47% of scoring chances
63.47% of high-danger chances

Pacioretty-Stephenson-Stone, specifically
472:33 together
59.47% of shot attempts
62.45% of shots
74.58% of goals
65.43% of expected goals
63.62% of scoring chances
67.05% of high-danger chances

Ridiculously good, probably the best line in the league. No argument here.

Colorado

Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen
1446:46 together
57.11% of shot attempts
57.24% of shots
60.00% of goals
56.08% of expected goals
59.00% of scoring chances
55.94% of high-danger chances

Similar but slightly better results compared to Calgary's line.

St Louis

xxxxxx-O'Reilly-Perron
1443:40 together
53.42% of shot attempts
53.41% of shots
56.41% of goals
52.17% of expected goals
52.69% of scoring chances
47.76% of high-danger chances

Lots of rotating wingers there but, either way, not as effective as 3M.

Dallas

Benn-Seguin-Radulov
758:34 together
53.42% of shot attempts
53.06% of shots
65.57% of goals
58.75% of expected goals
55.66% of scoring chances
59.60% of high-danger chances

Pretty good line that outperforms its expected goals but is otherwise pretty similar in terms of play-driving to 3M.

Washington

Ovechkin-Backstrom-Oshie
601:19 together
51.60% of shot attempts
52.35% of shots
55.56% of goals
51.92% of expected goals
51.78% of scoring chances
49.55% of high-danger chances

Worse than 3M in every category.

Pittsburgh

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
727:10 together
53.24% of shot attempts
54.64% of shots
66.67% of goals
54.34% of expected goals
54.94% of scoring chances
56.04% of high-danger chances

Another line that vastly outperforms its expected goals but is otherwise comparable to 3M in every way.

Tampa

xxxxx-Point-Kucherov
1558:58 together
54.42% of shot attempts
53.93% of shots
64.67% of goals
55.56% of expected goals
55.25% of scoring chances
54.93% of high-danger chances

Another combo with lots of rotating wingers that outperforms its expected goals (likely due to raw finishing talent). Drives play very similarly to 3M.

Boston

Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak
1322:16 together
58.67% of shot attempts
59.42% of shots
61.54% of goals
58.53% of expected goals
58.28% of scoring chances
55.32% of high-danger chances

One of the darling lines of the league and is decidedly more effective than 3M. But not by a massive gap or anything.

Toronto

xxxxx-Matthews-Marner
1034:28 together
53.34% of shot attempts
53.09% of shots
57.28% of goals
57.93% of expected goals
58.56% of scoring chances
58.88% of high-danger chances

Pretty similar to 3M across the board.

Philadelphia

xxxxx-Giroux-Konecny
1103:33 together
54.25% of shot attempts
51.50% of shots
53.85% of goals
51.20% of expected goals
52.53% of scoring chances
49.62% of high-danger chances

I would like to see Couturier's most deployed combination but his linemates seem to fluctuate pretty frequently. Either way... 3M drives play better than the Giroux-Konecny combo.

Florida

Basically every sample size here is way too small with Florida's constant roster turnover but I'm willing to bet Barkov and/or Huberdeau can generally elevate lines to a slightly better degree than Tkachuk/Backlund. But it's comparable.

...

To summarize, I really don't understand the derision about considering 3M one of the league's best combos. It's really right up there in terms of how it scores and drives play. Easily top-10 in the league over the last three years IMO.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

No. We got the crap option, unfortunately. Hrudey was given the night off for some reason.

Cuz he doesn't work weekends for the Flames. He is on HNIC.

[TheSkinner]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

hmmmmm let's see about that.

Spoiler due to post length.

Spoiler!

Since 2018-19...

Tkachuk-Backlund-xxxxx(Mangiapane, Frolik, whoever)
1450:58 together
55.99% of shot attempts
55.99% of shots
56.62% of goals
53.78% of expected goals
54.86% of scoring chances
53.75% of high-danger chances

Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane, specifically:
418:54 together
54.80% of shot attempts
56.43% of shots
56.82% of goals
55.40% of expected goals
54.39% of scoring chances
59.52% of high-danger chances

Pretty fantastic across the board. Let's compare that to some of the other lines you mentioned.

Since 2018-19...

Vegas

Pacioretty-xxxxx-Stone
1211:13 together
58.92% of shot attempts
60.17% of shots
63.17% of goals
62.82% of expected goals
61.47% of scoring chances
63.47% of high-danger chances

Pacioretty-Stephenson-Stone, specifically
472:33 together
59.47% of shot attempts
62.45% of shots
74.58% of goals
65.43% of expected goals
63.62% of scoring chances
67.05% of high-danger chances

Ridiculously good, probably the best line in the league. No argument here.

Colorado

Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen
1446:46 together
57.11% of shot attempts
57.24% of shots
60.00% of goals
56.08% of expected goals
59.00% of scoring chances
55.94% of high-danger chances

Similar but slightly better results compared to Calgary's line.

St Louis

xxxxxx-O'Reilly-Perron
1443:40 together
53.42% of shot attempts
53.41% of shots
56.41% of goals
52.17% of expected goals
52.69% of scoring chances
47.76% of high-danger chances

Lots of rotating wingers there but, either way, not as effective as 3M.

Dallas

Benn-Seguin-Radulov
758:34 together
53.42% of shot attempts
53.06% of shots
65.57% of goals
58.75% of expected goals
55.66% of scoring chances
59.60% of high-danger chances

Pretty good line that outperforms its expected goals but is otherwise pretty similar in terms of play-driving to 3M.

Washington

Ovechkin-Backstrom-Oshie
601:19 together
51.60% of shot attempts
52.35% of shots
55.56% of goals
51.92% of expected goals
51.78% of scoring chances
49.55% of high-danger chances

Worse than 3M in every category.

Pittsburgh

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
727:10 together
53.24% of shot attempts
54.64% of shots
66.67% of goals
54.34% of expected goals
54.94% of scoring chances
56.04% of high-danger chances

Another line that vastly outperforms its expected goals but is otherwise comparable to 3M in every way.

Tampa

xxxxx-Point-Kucherov
1558:58 together
54.42% of shot attempts
53.93% of shots
64.67% of goals
55.56% of expected goals
55.25% of scoring chances
54.93% of high-danger chances

Another combo with lots of rotating wingers that outperforms its expected goals (likely due to raw finishing talent). Drives play very similarly to 3M.

Boston

Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak
1322:16 together
58.67% of shot attempts
59.42% of shots
61.54% of goals
58.53% of expected goals
58.28% of scoring chances
55.32% of high-danger chances

One of the darling lines of the league and is decidedly more effective than 3M. But not by a massive gap or anything.

Toronto

xxxxx-Matthews-Marner
1034:28 together
53.34% of shot attempts
53.09% of shots
57.28% of goals
57.93% of expected goals
58.56% of scoring chances
58.88% of high-danger chances

Pretty similar to 3M across the board.

Philadelphia

xxxxx-Giroux-Konecny
1103:33 together
54.25% of shot attempts
51.50% of shots
53.85% of goals
51.20% of expected goals
52.53% of scoring chances
49.62% of high-danger chances

I would like to see Couturier's most deployed combination but his linemates seem to fluctuate pretty frequently. Either way... 3M drives play better than the Giroux-Konecny combo.

Florida

Basically every sample size here is way too small with Florida's constant roster turnover but I'm willing to bet Barkov and/or Huberdeau can generally elevate lines to a slightly better degree than Tkachuk/Backlund. But it's comparable.

...

To summarize, I really don't understand the derision about considering 3M one of the league's best combos. It's really right up there in terms of how it scores and drives play. Easily top-10 in the league over the last three years IMO.

With all due respect, you don’t believe that Chris Snow has those same numbers, shares them with the other coaches and management and yet they still choose to go a different way?

[TheScorpion]

I think they know full well how good Tkachuk and Backlund are together. They've used that line a ton. And Chris Snow has WAY more numbers at his disposal than I do.

They broke up 3M because they wanted to see what Lindholm could do at centre over an extended timeframe and they wanted to put him with Tkachuk. It's worked but I think the new lines have done so at the expense of Gaudreau and (at times) Backlund.

[TheSkinner]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I think they know full well how good Tkachuk and Backlund are together. They've used that line a ton. And Chris Snow has WAY more numbers at his disposal than I do.

They broke up 3M because they wanted to see what Lindholm could do at centre over an extended timeframe and they wanted to put him with Tkachuk. It's worked but I think the new lines have done so at the expense of Gaudreau and (at times) Backlund.

Thats one theory.. but their job is winning. Yes they probably want to “see how lindholm does” but If they honestly believed that winning would be better done with the 3M line... we’d see the 3M line 30 games into the season.