2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Mattman]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

#1 Centre: Eichel
#2 Centre: Lindholm
#3 Centre: Backlund

#1 Winger: Gaudreau
#2 Winger: Tkachuk/Monahan (maybe try 23 on LW)
#3 Winger: Mangiapane
#4 Winger: Dube

Legitimate question, because I'm curious what some fans think. But is Lindholm better utilized as a #2 Centre or as a #1 RW in this scenario??

Monahan is still a quality centre, though he is not a game-breaker superstar, similar to Jeff Carter in LA through 2011-2015

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by 868904

I like both Johnny and Tkachuk, but the fact is, both are flight risks.

You are going to lose them within the next 3 years, you might as well get something for them.

The team cannot allow them to leave without getting good assets back.

Maybe these moves happen in the off season before Johnny's NTC kicks in. Or they happen this season if it doesn't look like Darryl can pull off the miracle.

I don’t see a big problem with keeping these guys and going for it. This team is in win mode now. The point is to win, not to win the asset management game so this team can be mediocre forever. The Flames ultimately ended up with nothing to show for both the Iggy and Bouwmeester trades. So it’s not like a Gaudreau trade guarantee anything.

There seems to be a lot of star players opting for short deals these days and eyeing for UFA. So to me, even if the Flames played out Gaudreau’s contract, gain valuable cap space and use that to pick up say a Aleks Barkov or whoever, then I’d be ok with that. It’s not like Tavares leaving NYI for Toronto crushed that franchise. They’re doing just fine without him.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Mattman

Legitimate question, because I'm curious what some fans think. But is Lindholm better utilized as a #2 Centre or as a #1 RW in this scenario??

Monahan is still a quality centre, though he is not a game-breaker superstar, similar to Jeff Carter in LA through 2011-2015

That’s what makes Elias Lindholm special, he can play any position on the team and make that line better. If Jack Eichel is here, I’m moving Lindholm to wing to help supplement the Eichel line. If Lindholm can do the dirty work and get Eichel into more prime scoring areas, then absolutely.

Sutter is already playing Backlund like the #1 center right now anyway, so sticking him at the #2 spot seems about right.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Mattman

Legitimate question, because I'm curious what some fans think. But is Lindholm better utilized as a #2 Centre or as a #1 RW in this scenario??

Monahan is still a quality centre, though he is not a game-breaker superstar, similar to Jeff Carter in LA through 2011-2015

2020/2021: 27 points in 30 games

CF%: 51.58
SF%: 49.51
GF%: 66.67
xGF%: 52.89
SCF%: 54.05
HDCF%: 55.65
HDGF%: 61.90

If we compare that to him in 2019/2020, he's a better C than RW.

If we compare this season to 2018/2019, he's a better RW than C.

2018/2019: 78 points in 81 games
CF%: 55.54
SF%: 54.13
GF%: 58.49
xGF%: 54.43
SCF%: 54.19
HDCF%: 54.57
HDGF%: 60.00

I don't think either data set really says he's better at Centre or Right-Wing because how good he looked in 18/19 as a RW was soured by the 19/20 season - but there's a huge team/line impact on it.

...Side note - jeez, Geoff Ward really should never have been given the head coach job based on his 19/20 work.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I don’t see a big problem with keeping these guys and going for it. This team is in win mode now. The point is to win, not to win the asset management game so this team can be mediocre forever. The Flames ultimately ended up with nothing to show for both the Iggy and Bouwmeester trades. So it’s not like a Gaudreau trade guarantee anything.

There seems to be a lot of star players opting for short deals these days and eyeing for UFA. So to me, even if the Flames played out Gaudreau’s contract, gain valuable cap space and use that to pick up say a Aleks Barkov or whoever, then I’d be ok with that. It’s not like Tavares leaving NYI for Toronto crushed that franchise. They’re doing just fine without him.

There is also no guarantee that if the Flames trade Johnny they will get nothing of value in return

NYI is doing better without Tavares than they did with him. But how much better could they be if they traded him?

It's time to move on from Johnny. This team isn't good enough to win now and I just don't see the assets or cap space to do anything to dramtically improve this team. Move out Johnny now and this team should have a much improved draft siuation, prospect pool and cap situation moving forward.

Other than on the PP I really believe this team won't miss Johnny as much as we think. He is a one dimensional player who is labeled an elite level offensive talent but he has 12 5 on 5 points in 30 games. If you are elite you should be able to produce more than that with players like Monahan on your line. McDavid has 35 5 on 5 points playing with Nuge and Puljujarvi/Neal. Pat Kane has 28 5 on 5 points with similar calibre linemates

Johnny doesn't seem to be elite offensively anymore and he's clearly a liability in his own end. Time to move on. Resigning him will cost likely at least $8.5 mil a year maybe more. He isn't worth that IMO and it makes no sense hanging on to him and losing him for nothing when we are a game over .500 in the worst division in the league.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Mattman

Legitimate question, because I'm curious what some fans think. But is Lindholm better utilized as a #2 Centre or as a #1 RW in this scenario??

Monahan is still a quality centre, though he is not a game-breaker superstar, similar to Jeff Carter in LA through 2011-2015

I think you need two centres to win.

So if it’s Tkachuk that gets dealt in a Eichel deal then I’d move Lindholm back to RW and have Monahan as your #2 Center (although I’d be tempted to try Monahan at LW too like the kings did with Carter at times)

If it’s Monahan that’s dealt in the Eichel deal then i think I would leave Lindholm at Center.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

There is also no guarantee that if the Flames trade Johnny they will get nothing of value in return

NYI is doing better without Tavares than they did with him. But how much better could they be if they traded him?

It's time to move on from Johnny. This team isn't good enough to win now and I just don't see the assets or cap space to do anything to dramtically improve this team. Move out Johnny now and this team should have a much improved draft siuation, prospect pool and cap situation moving forward.

Other than on the PP I really believe this team won't miss Johnny as much as we think. He is a one dimensional player who is labeled an elite level offensive talent but he has 12 5 on 5 points in 30 games. If you are elite you should be able to produce more than that with players like Monahan on your line. McDavid has 35 5 on 5 points playing with Nuge and Puljujarvi/Neal. Pat Kane has 28 5 on 5 points with similar calibre linemates

Johnny doesn't seem to be elite offensively anymore and he's clearly a liability in his own end. Time to move on. Resigning him will cost likely at least $8.5 mil a year maybe more. He isn't worth that IMO and it makes no sense hanging on to him and losing him for nothing when we are a game over .500 in the worst division in the league.

Well, that’s my point, is that there’s no guarantee of anything, so you go with what you know you have and that’s Johnny Gaudreau for this and next season, especially if the Flames can land a Jack Eichel, these 2 could make for a dominant duo.

I’m not going to convince you that Gaudreau has had a good season 5 on 5 because it’s simply not true. But I also know the potential he has as an even strength point producer. Just look up EVP since he’s joined the league, he’s up there with some of the best in the league.

You don’t need to be a hockey savant to see that Gaudreau has talent. He has the ability to freeze, breakdown defensive structures and conjure something out of nothing like few players can do in the NHL. He’s a special player and he’s extremely under appreciated around here.

The problem is, he’s not Connor McDavid here. He needs a complete line to maximize his potential. You can’t just throw randoms like Alex Chiasson, Troy Brouwer and etc and expect magic. This line needs someone like a Hudler or a Ferland or a Lindholm to create the necessary chemistry to fuel this line. Josh Leivo, Dominic Simon, Brett Ritchie and Sam Bennett are not that fuel.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Well, that’s my point, is that there’s no guarantee of anything, so you go with what you know you have and that’s Johnny Gaudreau for this and next season, especially if the Flames can land a Jack Eichel, these 2 could make for a dominant duo.

I’m not going to convince you that Gaudreau has had a good season 5 on 5 because it’s simply not true. But I also know the potential he has as an even strength point producer. Just look up EVP since he’s joined the league, he’s up there with some of the best in the league.

You don’t need to be a hockey savant to see that Gaudreau has talent. He has the ability to freeze, breakdown defensive structures and conjure something out of nothing like few players can do in the NHL. He’s a special player and he’s extremely under appreciated around here.

The problem is, he’s not Connor McDavid here. He needs a complete line to maximize his potential. You can’t just throw randoms like Alex Chiasson, Troy Brouwer and etc and expect magic. This line needs someone like a Hudler or a Ferland or a Lindholm to create the necessary chemistry to fuel this line. Josh Leivo, Dominic Simon, Brett Ritchie and Sam Bennett are not that fuel.

Maybe Johnny is under appreciated on here and maybe coaching and his line has held him back but I don't see him as the same player he was a couple years ago. He's still very good though but just can't see myself liking his new contract at his age. he will be 29 and if he loses a step he could become very ineffective very quickly in his 30s

I more have an issue that this team is close and in win now mode. I thought they would be these past 2 years and next but they haven't been that good. Toronto is a 3rd place team in their normal division and Winnipeg was a wild card team last year after losing half their defense from when they were a cup contender. If they can't make the playoffs in this division they aren't even close IMO to be in win mode now. At some point they need to be realistic that it hasn't worked out.

I wouldn't trade Johnny now, it's more an off season move so maybe we keep rolling and this team proves me wrong but looking at this years competition I just don't see this team having a hope to make it to the playoffs in any of the other 3 divisions.

Also the North division is a very high scoring bad defensive division. McDavid, Drasaitl, Marner, Mathews, Scheifle are all right at the top in scoring (5 of top 6 scorers in 1 division). Ehlers is putting up numbers. Johnny should be over a PPG in this division

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

The 1,000 yard stares of sadness every interview should tell you everything you need to know about him.

You are so amazing at mind reading and interpretting facial expressions! It's uncanny how good you are at that. Where did you train? Are you going to write a book about it?

So special. Do you consult celebrities and politicians too??

[SnipeShow]

I'm curious to get opinions from some people that watch a wider range of teams around the league. I really only watch flames games atm so I'm limited in knowledge regarding this. A post I read earlier framed it in away that if we aren't smart with our assets, the window may close up in a couple years if we lose Johnny, Gio, and possibly Tkachuk if he only did a 1 yr qualifying offer.

What kind of players do people feel like fit that pre-breakout but affordable area? I'm aiming at similar to what we found in Lindy and Hanifin as BT was both able to sign them reasonably and now they both seem to bring a decent amount of value. A retool with targets like these would really help to extend and keep our cap under control without over paying with 9M contracts.





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[powderjunkie]

Everyone seems to assume that trading Johnny guarantees short-term futility (which I think is pretty likely whether he's here or not). Beyond examples like NYI post Tavares, teams lose their best players to injury all the time, and it doesn't necessarily preclude them from success.

We can say that this team has had some bad breaks, but we've also been pretty darn lucky on the injury front to our most important players (Bennett and Valimaki are notable for how injuries may have affected development, but neither was set to slot into the top half of the roster).


Holding Johnny into next season runs the risk of an injury prematurely ending his value.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Maybe Johnny is under appreciated on here and maybe coaching and his line has held him back but I don't see him as the same player he was a couple years ago. He's still very good though but just can't see myself liking his new contract at his age. he will be 29 and if he loses a step he could become very ineffective very quickly in his 30s

I more have an issue that this team is close and in win now mode. I thought they would be these past 2 years and next but they haven't been that good. Toronto is a 3rd place team in their normal division and Winnipeg was a wild card team last year after losing half their defense from when they were a cup contender. If they can't make the playoffs in this division they aren't even close IMO to be in win mode now. At some point they need to be realistic that it hasn't worked out.

I wouldn't trade Johnny now, it's more an off season move so maybe we keep rolling and this team proves me wrong but looking at this years competition I just don't see this team having a hope to make it to the playoffs in any of the other 3 divisions.

Also the North division is a very high scoring bad defensive division. McDavid, Drasaitl, Marner, Mathews, Scheifle are all right at the top in scoring (5 of top 6 scorers in 1 division). Ehlers is putting up numbers. Johnny should be over a PPG in this division

Well he doesn’t need to be what he was 2 years ago, nobody on this team is really where they were 2 years ago. He was almost in the running for a Hart Trophy that season. That’s not really what he is, can he get back to being a 70-80 point player though who can be consistently dangerous at even strength? That’s the question and I think he can, but like I said, this organization can’t just throw junk into this engine and expect it to purr, they need a real part in there.

Lastly, I think you need to stop looking at it as keep = re-sign. Treliving can keep Gaudreau and weigh out the options between winning with him vs what he can receive back in a trade. Obviously if this season goes awry and he and Monahan don’t mesh with coach then maybe it is time for a trade.

[442scotty]

When is the earliest Gaudreau can resign here?

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Everyone seems to assume that trading Johnny guarantees short-term futility (which I think is pretty likely whether he's here or not). Beyond examples like NYI post Tavares, teams lose their best players to injury all the time, and it doesn't necessarily preclude them from success.

We can say that this team has had some bad breaks, but we've also been pretty darn lucky on the injury front to our most important players (Bennett and Valimaki are notable for how injuries may have affected development, but neither was set to slot into the top half of the roster).


Holding Johnny into next season runs the risk of an injury prematurely ending his value.

I agree. I truly believe we can trade Johnny and get a good return. I also think we can utilize the cap space to fill some holes and still be a good team. If treliving finds another lindholm who hasn’t broke out yet we could be better and eliminate losing Johnny for nothing and hopefully draft well and strengthen the prospect pool all at once

Johnny can resign this summer. If treliving allowed the team acquiring him to negotiate a new deal we could get a good deal

[simonsays]

I don't think Johnny can officially negotiate his next contract until July 1st, which is the same day his limited NTC kicks in.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by simonsays

I don't think Johnny can officially negotiate his next contract until July 1st, which is the same day his limited NTC kicks in.

That’s the dilemma - his limits aren’t very limiting. he practically has a full NTC next year.

[simonsays]

Right, a 5 team trade list. So he could put 4 no cap / 4 no talent teams that wouldn't want him and then Philly (or whomever). And then we either trade him for what they're willing to give, or he has a chance to walk. It also reduces his value to any team that might think he'll get them over the hump, because if it isn't working out then they're in the same predicament.



For all the love we used to give Tre about being an RFA wizard... Well this clause and the Tkachuck QO should lay that to rest.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by simonsays

I don't think Johnny can officially negotiate his next contract until July 1st, which is the same day his limited NTC kicks in.

They should be able to talk details and terms. I’d have a handshake deal in place for a deal signed or trade him before the NTC kicks in

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by simonsays

Right, a 5 team trade list. So he could put 4 no cap / 4 no talent teams that wouldn't want him and then Philly (or whomever). And then we either trade him for what they're willing to give, or he has a chance to walk. It also reduces his value to any team that might think he'll get them over the hump, because if it isn't working out then they're in the same predicament.



For all the love we used to give Tre about being an RFA wizard... Well this clause and the Tkachuck QO should lay that to rest.

If you recall, the last Gaudreau contract came down to the wire. This clause was obviously part of the trade off for a sub $7M cap hit.

[simonsays]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If you recall, the last Gaudreau contract came down to the wire. This clause was obviously part of the trade off for a sub $7M cap hit.

Oh, I understand that. It's just that at the time this team was looking competitive and was on the upswing. Something to give him some leverage, but the chickens are coming home to roost and we need to make a decision on Johnny quick snap.


His trade value diminishes almost daily, not because of play but the clock on his contract. We have until the draft to figure out if he's in it for the long haul or if he wants to play somewhere else. After that almost all of the Flames leverage is gone. The contract was a steal when it was signed. But we're paying for it now with the lack of options. And because we really haven't progressed as a team.



I love Johnny, but if he and Tkachuk both come in at 9 we are straight up boned. Let someone else deal with that shazzam.