Cameron documentary claims to have found Jesus' Tomb. Oh, and dead body too...

[Azure]

Originally Posted by photon

I think I recall seeing something about that as well (disregarding petty laws). I just think sometimes the OT to NT transition is used too much of a cop out about some of the crazy things that went on in the OT.

Absolutely.

Okay guys, its been good, but I have to go.

[flames85]

Originally Posted by Azure

Romans clearly points out that all Christians should respect the government, because God put the government there for the good of the people.

Here,



I edited out a verse in between because it would most likely start a flame war. Seeing how some people on here have a problem with God being in charge of who is leading the government.

it's all in translation, i take that as meaning don't break laws of the land, which i don't, i don't kill, speed, steal...etc. but government is man. and men sin.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by flames85

your scripture's are in regards to eternal life, One day with the lord will be the same as a thousand, meaning there is not timeline it's eternity. ....don't really know where your going with this?

There are other verses that deal with the same idea.

Look it up.

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Yes it does. And my point is that you have no right to judge me for not spreading the word as God will judge me Himself.

...fair enough

[flames85]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Well, first, you know what you're talking about. That's an important part in spreading the word. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the light. All who know me will see the gates of Heaven" Or some such thing. It's pretty close anyways. You see, it doesn't matter, as long as you know Jesus. The key is to know him. And to know Him, is to know how to love and to not judge.

The key is knowing which words you're supposed to spread. Once you figure that out, you'll realize that spreading them without judging people is rather easy.

i still would like to know how i am judging people? if you only loved everyone and didn't spread the word, then how is the word going to get out there?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by flames85

it's all in translation, i take that as meaning don't break laws of the land, which i don't, i don't kill, speed, steal...etc. but government is man. and men sin.

Boy.

Read the verses I provided.

It clearly points out that the government is a tool used by God to control mankind. It is for the better that they exist.

If you believe in God, and his power, this should be a no-brainier.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by photon

I think I recall seeing something about that as well (disregarding petty laws). I just think sometimes the OT to NT transition is used too much of a cop out about some of the crazy things that went on in the OT.

I tried to explain it before, maybe I didn't make much sense...

Let's use another example.

It's easy enough for us to look at African people and give them rules and teach them how to grow stuff and clean water and all that kind of stuff, however it's much different when we try to put it into practise. When we do, we realize just how difficult those living conditions are.

It's similar for God. He gave the Jews rules for how to worship Him the best, and then He noticed they were having a very difficult time living up to those rules. I mean really, all the people in the world and he's got Job and Noah? He had to question why so many of His people fell away from Him. Also, He didn't want them to be seperate from Him, so He sent His Son to check it out. What His Son discovered was that life is hard! All those rules on top of just living day to day was ridiculously hard, and He wanted to make it easier to see the kingdom, so He changed the rules.

[flames85]

Originally Posted by Azure

Boy.

Read the verses I provided.

It clearly points out that the government is a tool used by God to control mankind. It is for the better that they exist.

If you believe in God, and his power, this should be a no-brainier.

why should it be a no brainer? man is the one that creates these laws on earth, not God. Men sin, which means government sins. i think your confused because you think government = liberal/conservative...etc. when in the Bible government means Men of God = Pastors/Ministers...etc.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Hey that's fine I understand. Lets call it a mix of curiosity and challenging. I have a problem when some people hold a view point, not from forming their own opinion, but instead having their opinions told to them.

I enjoy the challenge. It's the reason I kept taking religious studies courses. Please, prod further. If you can make me think, that's never a bad thing. It's rather important to me that I reaffirm my convictions. I need people to ask me good questions on a regular basis.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Azure

Just making sure.

My point still stands though; in a land of religious freedom, and freedom of speech, everyone has the right to voice their opinion, even on gay marriage.

Yes I agree that people should voice their opinions. But I do have a problem if something that a religous group has advocated imposes on my life through legislation. But that is neither here nor there and I think I've derailed this thread enough.

[photon]

Originally Posted by flames85

so tell me how do you go about spreading the word without judging?

By doing it, spread the word without judging. Why would you judge the lost? To what end? If you suceeded in making every sinner not sin, they still would not be saved would they? It's supposed to be the other way around, first the salvation, then the rest. Jesus himself said "for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." and "Ye judge after the flesh; judge no man." (Of course there's other scriptures where Jesus says he judges people, but that's another discussion)

Originally Posted by flames85

well i would say if you are married how do you know you are married to the right person?

as to knowing a real man of God, i say get to know some ministers / pastors... and you will know when you meet one.

There is no "right" person to marry. I married a person whom I love and who loves me back, and we're both comitted to our relationship and making it work. It's that commitment that MAKES that person the right person.

I know many pastors, and have known many. But I've never "known" when one was a real man of God and another wasn't. But I see you are unwilling to give any other answer.

Many of the pastors I have known I think of as great men. Because of how they treated others, how they loved and respected everyone (not just those in their flock or those that shared their beliefs). A number have had a great impact on my life. But so have other men who had nothing to do with the church.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by flames85

i still would like to know how i am judging people? if you only loved everyone and didn't spread the word, then how is the word going to get out there?

Someone already mentioned it but I can spread the word just by being me. People know I'm a Christian, and they know how much I love life and love others. They see me live what I consider a Christian life every day. And my life is pretty good!

If you tell someone what they are doing is wrong, you are judging their character for doing it in the first place. You're implying that a good person would never do such things, that they are flawed somehow.

Try focusing on the New Testament, the words of Jesus. That's what Christianity is about... not the old testament. Nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus say that gays will go to Hell.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Yes I agree that people should voice their opinions. But I do have a problem if something that a religous group has advocated imposes on my life through legislation. But that is neither here nor there and I think I've derailed this thread enough.

But non-religious people force their views on religious people all the time... so that's okay? I mean, I can't share my non-existant husband with 3 other women... shouldn't that be my right too?

[Burninator]

Just for discussion sakes a case can be made for homosexuality in the new testament. Link. Not as clear cut as the old testament but it can be interpreted as such.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Just for discussion sakes a case can be made for homosexuality in the new testament. Link. Not as clear cut as the old testament but it can be interpreted as such.

By freaks and morons maybe. He's telling people to quit calling others names, which goes along with everything else He's said. Oops... I just called people names!

I don't like that thread of discussion, sorry, I'm cutting it off!

[photon]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I tried to explain it before, maybe I didn't make much sense...

Let's use another example.

It's easy enough for us to look at African people and give them rules and teach them how to grow stuff and clean water and all that kind of stuff, however it's much different when we try to put it into practise. When we do, we realize just how difficult those living conditions are.

It's similar for God. He gave the Jews rules for how to worship Him the best, and then He noticed they were having a very difficult time living up to those rules. I mean really, all the people in the world and he's got Job and Noah? He had to question why so many of His people fell away from Him. Also, He didn't want them to be seperate from Him, so He sent His Son to check it out. What His Son discovered was that life is hard! All those rules on top of just living day to day was ridiculously hard, and He wanted to make it easier to see the kingdom, so He changed the rules.

I think you made sense and on one level I get it.. but God doesn't change, and the stuff that went on in the OT was acceptable to Him then, the killing, the degredation of women, etc.. Though I guess what your saying is those things weren't acceptable even then, but there was no other choice so He abided it until a different way was established? Sucks for those folks.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by photon

I think you made sense and on one level I get it.. but God doesn't change, and the stuff that went on in the OT was acceptable to Him then, the killing, the degredation of women, etc.. Though I guess what your saying is those things weren't acceptable even then, but there was no other choice so He abided it until a different way was established? Sucks for those folks.

Why can't God change?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by flames85

why should it be a no brainer? man is the one that creates these laws on earth, not God. Men sin, which means government sins. i think your confused because you think government = liberal/conservative...etc. when in the Bible government means Men of God = Pastors/Ministers...etc.

Prove to me that in the Bible government means Pastor/Ministers.

I'm not confusing anything. The Bible clearly points out that the government was set up by God, for the good of mankind.

And he still controls the government to this day.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Why can't God change?

I think it has something to do with his greatness, and the fact he is all powerful.

Or perhaps not, because I certainly think God changed his outlook on man. Many times.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Azure

I think it has something to do with his greatness, and the fact he is all powerful.

Or perhaps not, because I certainly think God changed his outlook on man. Many times.

He can be all powerful and all knowing, but does that mean he has all that knowledge on the tip of his brain at any given moment?

Didn't he change his mind when he saved Noah? What about Sodom and Gomorrah? He has shown evidence of evolving along with humanity as well.