Flames fire Geoff Ward, hire Darryl Sutter, signs 3 year deal

[Red]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I thought you were referring to two mods. Otherwise I'm not sure who you're referring to...there are plenty of terrible takes to go around...the best remedy for trollish behaviour is to ignore it. But it's just a message board, so who cares.

Couldn't agree more. That's my entire point, let people have opinions. No need to negatively reply to everyone you may disagree with.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by motorcrosser

This got stupid. Stop.

You first =D

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Red

Couldn't agree more. That's my entire point, let people have opinions. No need to negatively reply to everyone you may disagree with.

[motorcrosser]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

You first =D

Nu uh you first. I'm rubber you're glue or something like that

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Red

Couldn't agree more. That's my entire point, let people have opinions. No need to negatively reply to everyone you may disagree with.

Some of those trolls feed off of those replies. So many times they will do drive-by's (especially directed at Bennett) in a thread just to derail it a bit. Some never learn and just keep feeding them!!! Anyways back on topic

Sutter's record against Edmonton, even in this thread would imply that he believes E = No Good!

[GranteedEV]

Sarich made a really good point during today's intermission about forward backpressure allowing the defensemen to play much tighter gaps under Sutter.

That's a sound description of championship hockey, whatever system you want to call it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Sarich made a really good point during today's intermission about forward backpressure allowing the defensemen to play much tighter gaps under Sutter.

That's a sound description of championship hockey, whatever system you want to call it.

Everything about the sped up game makes it easier on the D. The forecheck rushes the opposition and causes delayed exits. The backcheck throws them, and the wingers are pressuring more in the D zone now as well. Except at the end of the game - it looks like Sutter plays a traditional “kitty bar the door” when leading in the last 3 minutes or so.

[jayswin]

I'm very impressed and excited by this no system change!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jayswin

i'm very impressed and excited by this no system change!

:d

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

You first =D

just ask for a suspension and get it over with

[TheRealPepman]

For those that watched the Let's Talk Hockey event today (with Rob Kerr as the host), you've prolly heard this but Sutter doesn't want to do the GM duties again.

From my understanding, he only accepted the job in 2003 to give the Flames stability and respectability. And he did his part obviously. Could have been a little better but he did what he did.

So for those scared of Sutter GMing again, worry no more.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheRealPepman

For those that watched the Let's Talk Hockey event today (with Rob Kerr as the host), you've prolly heard this but Sutter doesn't want to do GM duties every again.

From my understanding, he only accepted the job in 2003 to give the Flames stability and respectability. And he did his part obviously. Could have been a little better but he did what he did.

So for those scared of Sutter GMing again, worry no more.

I was not one who thought money was a factor in hiring Hartley through Ward, but I always wondered if the hiring of Playfair and Keenan was in part because they told Sutter that if he was going to be GM only (and likely didn’t take a pay cut to do so), he was on a budget for HC.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Sarich made a really good point during today's intermission about forward backpressure allowing the defensemen to play much tighter gaps under Sutter.

That's a sound description of championship hockey, whatever system you want to call it.

This is what I've been trying to get at for weeks. The Flames structurally, have been too aggressive on the forecheck which has hurt their ability to apply enough back pressure in the neutral zone which has made them vulnerable to counter attacks in transition. They were playing with zero passion and an inconsistent effort every night which exacerbated things, but now that they're trying and playing with 100% buy in, their forecheck is considerably more effective again which was supposed to be this team's primary objective from the start of the season, "check for your chances."

Alas, it took another head coach dismissal for them to figure it out, but I guess this group is pretty use to that by now.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

This is what I've been trying to get at for weeks. The Flames structurally, have been too aggressive on the forecheck which has hurt their ability to apply enough back pressure in the neutral zone which has made them vulnerable to counter attacks in transition. They were playing with zero passion and an inconsistent effort every night which exacerbated things, but now that they're trying and playing with 100% buy in, their forecheck is considerably more effective again which was supposed to be this team's primary objective from the start of the season, "check for your chances."

Alas, it took another head coach dismissal for them to figure it out, but I guess this group is pretty use to that by now.

Your little potshot at the group is silly. Ward had 72 games to get these results, and never even showed signs of progress. Not once during Geoff Ward's tenure did the Flames play with the gap control needed to be a strong team. This dates back to the previous season, as well as the playoffs.

That it happened immediately under Sutter is telling.

[DeluxeMoustache]

It was strange to read someone claiming the Flames had an aggressive forecheck because it wasn’t what you would call aggressive in the conventional sense of applying pressure and forcing turnovers. Seems like by aggressive, he may have been saying that they put themselves out of position by doing flybys but not coming back with any intensity.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

It was strange to read someone claiming the Flames had an aggressive forecheck because it wasn’t what you would call aggressive in the conventional sense of applying pressure and forcing turnovers. Seems like by aggressive, he may have been saying that they put themselves out of position by doing flybys but not coming back with any intensity.

It’s more or less what he was saying. It was what Edmonton did three games in a row against Toronto. They’d send two guys in, who both did nothing to slow down the Leaf D, who moved the puck quickly. And then both Edmonton forecheckers were trapped behind the play while Toronto moved up 5 on 3.

If you want to forecheck deep, you’d better either come up with the puck or slow the breakout. The Flames have been very good at that in the last 3 games. In a few games under Ward they were too, but not often enough obviously.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Your little potshot at the group is silly. Ward had 72 games to get these results, and never even showed signs of progress. Not once during Geoff Ward's tenure did the Flames play with the gap control needed to be a strong team. This dates back to the previous season, as well as the playoffs.

That it happened immediately under Sutter is telling.

Actually, Geoff Ward helped saved the Flames’ season when he was forced to steer the ship. He went on an equally impressive run to start his tenure and he also won a playoff round regardless of the opponent. If he was that inept as everyone says he is, his team wouldn’t have dominated the Jets the way they did in the playoffs. I can’t defend everything he did because even I thought he was being pretty stubborn in a few instances and it cost him his job; but I think it’s more than fair to take a shot at this group after we’ve seen 5 coaches in 6 years with the same type of story and same patterns year after year.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Actually, Geoff Ward helped saved the Flames’ season when he was forced to steer the ship. He went on an equally impressive run to start his tenure and he also won a playoff round regardless of the opponent. If he was that inept as everyone says he is, his team wouldn’t have dominated the Jets the way they did in the playoffs. I can’t defend everything he did because even I thought he was being pretty stubborn in a few instances and it cost him his job; but I think it’s more than fair to take a shot at this group after we’ve seen 5 coaches in 6 years with the same type of story and same patterns year after year.

There is lots of discussion about whether we are currently seeing a new coach bump, or if Sutter is making a tangible difference (it's the latter, if you're scoring at home).

Looking at Ward's record: starts with a 7 game winning streak (without doing anything differently), then is mediocre for a season and a half. That is the definition of a new coach bump.

As for the Wpg series, I give him little - the Flames were the better team before 2 of their best players got hurt.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

It was strange to read someone claiming the Flames had an aggressive forecheck because it wasn’t what you would call aggressive in the conventional sense of applying pressure and forcing turnovers. Seems like by aggressive, he may have been saying that they put themselves out of position by doing flybys but not coming back with any intensity.

Well that was was me that claimed they were aggressively pursuing the puck and I was calling this out well before Darryl was ever in the picture. It was so obvious that they were overly aggressive before because F3 was constantly caught deep with no ability for any other forwards to apply effective back pressure. This lead to the easiest of offensive zone entries for the opposition and from there they would just cycle the Flames to death, put up a barrage of shots and by the end the Flames were badly outplayed, badly outshot and badly out scored most nights.

Now that this team is playing with a little more belief and a little more effort on a consistent basis, we’re seeing a team that’s checking harder, creating more turnovers, creating more chances and being more connected in all zones. This is the outcome I anticipated as this team generally responds well to coaching changes. To me though, I’m more concerned about the long term, but that can be addressed at a later date because what’s more concerning today is tonight’s BOA and the rest of this season.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

There is lots of discussion about whether we are currently seeing a new coach bump, or if Sutter is making a tangible difference (it's the latter, if you're scoring at home).

Looking at Ward's record: starts with a 7 game winning streak (without doing anything differently), then is mediocre for a season and a half. That is the definition of a new coach bump.

As for the Wpg series, I give him little - the Flames were the better team before 2 of their best players got hurt.

To your first point, we don’t know for sure whether it’s a new coaching bump or Sutter yet. I know CP loves Darryl Sutter and has been clamoring for an “elite” coach so I wouldn’t be surprised to see Darryl in a landslide if a poll was conducted.

Secondly, Peters was floundering in his second season. The record before he was “fired” was almost identical to Geoff Ward’s record before he was relieved of duties. There’s a pattern and a trend with this group that shows they play well for their new coach. It remains to be seen if it’ll definitely continue in the long term.

Lastly, I hate this kind of BS. When things go right, it’s on the players. When things go wrong, it’s on the coach. Now that Darryl is at the helm, when things go right, it’s on the coach, if things go wrong it’ll be on the players. People just pick and choose the narrative depending on who they like more. Fact is, Geoff Ward helped his team make the playoffs, he laid down the right game plan and his team dominated the Jets, it wasn’t close. He deserves some credit for this.