2021: Vatican Calls Homosexuality a "Sin"

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It is curious how expressions of hatred for Christianity are acceptable in certain quarters where hatred of Islam is unacceptable. Presumably because the latter is regarded as bigotry while the former is not.

Not sure how people purporting to be champions of reason square that circle. Something to do with race? Which will be an odd stance to take as Christianity becomes majority non-white. I expect animus towards the Church will be less socially acceptable once the college of cardinals selects a Black pontiff (which is one the reasons it’s a near-certainty).

Is it curious, though? I'd say in North America we're way more immersed in Christian influences than Islamic ones. I know dozens of Christians. I know zero Muslims on a personal level.

I know a Catholic guy with whom I interact every day who has disowned his daughter because she's gay. Known her since she was a kid, too. It's heartbreaking to watch, and I'm sure yesterday's news emboldened his stance.

Is criticizing Islam unacceptable? I can agree I don't see it as often, but I'm not seeing anybody criticize Raelism, the Moonies, Wicca, etc., either. I don't see Islam trying to influence my life I'm leading here in Calgary. I do have Kenney and other politicians invoking their religion and making decisions influenced by their religious stance, though, so there is an affect on me that I can and should object to.

There are 56,000 students in the Calgary Catholic School District. Those kids are being taught that a gay relationship is a sin and will result in a couple burning in hell for eternity. That's evil and is poisoning the thinking of our fellow Calgarians. They're sharing a damaging delusion and it incumbent upon rational thinkers to object to that sort of insanity.

I think it's safe to say the opinions people have toward Christianity in general can be applied to all other religions, though. Other religions may not receive as much criticism here simply because they aren't as omnipresent.

[CliffFletcher]

Fair enough. Though I don’t think Kenney’s conservatism is aimed exclusively at Christian faithful. One of the reasons he’s popular with immigrant communities is because they tend to be socially conservative.

[the-rasta-masta]

One of the reasons I started questioning my Catholic upbringing was when I realized that the Church had changed their line of thinking through history. We're talking about an organization that took Galileo to trial for him believing that the earth rotated around the Sun. They considered it scripture that the earth was the centre of the universe. I figured, how could they have been so wrong, and then just changed their mind once too many people started believing in the science?

They've changed their philosophies before, why not now?

[CliffFletcher]

Heck, they had two popes for a while. Two infallible spokesmen of God who each excommunicated the other’s supporters. The efforts of Jesuits notwithstanding, logical consistency isn’t a strong suit of the Catholic Church.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yeah, I didn't dive deep into Russia when I was looking it up, but like China it comes down to regionalism as well. In China while they said they decriminalized it, there are still courts that have upheld the ruling that homosexuality is at very least a serious mental illness. Cuba should still be on the map as there is still a lot of persecution and bigotry towards it.



China probably has laws against it because of reproductive issues. Russia because it has a streak of orthodoxy that rose again after the fall of Communism. North Korea because its North Korea. Its interesting that quite a few of the more first world Christian centric countries don't have a criminal stance, yet the vatican seems to still have it.


Its a sad state of affairs.

Sin does not equal Crime.

There is the Criminal System and then there is the 'Judgement of God'.

Not defending anything, just making sure we are technically correct here.

Plus you have to remember that in most 1st world countries there is a separation between the church and state. For reasons like this.

[Two Fivenagame]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

One of the reasons I started questioning my Catholic upbringing was when I realized that the Church had changed their line of thinking through history. We're talking about an organization that took Galileo to trial for him believing that the earth rotated around the Sun. They considered it scripture that the earth was the centre of the universe. I figured, how could they have been so wrong, and then just changed their mind once too many people started believing in the science?

They've changed their philosophies before, why not now?

LoL that particular change in philosophy only took about 350 years for the church to admit Galileo was right.

Galileo - 1
Word of God - 0

Not exactly holding up to the "all knowing" reputation eh god? Pretty big swing and a miss on that one.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Sin does not equal Crime.

There is the Criminal System and then there is the 'Judgement of God'.

Not defending anything, just making sure we are technically correct here.

Plus you have to remember that in most 1st world countries there is a separation between the church and state. For reasons like this.

its okay little timmy, we won't imprison you for loving johnny, but you will rot in a pit of fire for all of eternity that lasts an infinite amount of time longer than you lived. we arent so bad, right?

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by stone hands

its okay little timmy, we won't imprison you for loving johnny, but you will rot in a pit of fire for all of eternity that lasts an infinite amount of time longer than you lived. we arent so bad, right?

Oh no, they're ####ing bad. And outdated. Just explaining what most 1st world countries have been able to do. Im agnostic, I think too logically to believe in any religion. I also believe you cant know for sure there isn't some bigger power or puppetmaster of some sort. What I sure as heck hope is you dont burn in a fiery pit of hell for being homosexual, and that you do for abusing your powers and abusing children.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bunk

God, I love being an atheist. So freeing from this ancient nonsense.

How fortunate for you. I desperately miss being a Christian.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

How fortunate for you. I desperately miss being a Christian.

What's stopping you? Your Christianity is a choice. If you miss it so much why are you not scurrying back to it?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

What's stopping you? Your Christianity is a choice. If you miss it so much why are you not scurrying back to it?

Because one cannot simply choose what to believe. I also cannot stomach the hypocrisy, anti-intellectualism and anti-progressivism. The things I miss are the feeling of being part of something much bigger than myself, the camaraderie and community.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

... The things I miss are the feeling of being part of something much bigger than myself, the camaraderie and community.

So... CP is not enough for you?

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Because one cannot simply choose what to believe.

If you don't choose then who does?

[troutman]

Protests against Catholicism have taken many forms, Martin Luther nailing his objections to the cathedral door, but the Pet Shop Boys chose to make theirs in disco...
https://www.soundonsound.com/people/...p-boys-its-sin

Neil Tennant vented against the conflict between guilt and desire engendered by his Catholic upbringing.

"At school they taught me how to be,” he wrote poetically of his education at St Cuthbert's High School in Newcastle upon Tyne, "So pure in thought and word and deed, They didn't quite succeed. For everything I long to do, No matter when or where or who, Has one thing in common, too. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a sin...”

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Because one cannot simply choose what to believe. I also cannot stomach the hypocrisy, anti-intellectualism and anti-progressivism. The things I miss are the feeling of being part of something much bigger than myself, the camaraderie and community.

Also that the knowledge everything ends in nothingness, a concept I can't even grasp, is terrifying.

I miss the blissful, ignorant reassurance of an afterlife.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Also that the knowledge everything ends in nothingness, a concept I can't even grasp, is terrifying.

I miss the blissful, ignorant reassurance of an afterlife.

To me, the concept that everything just ends in nothingness is a lot more comforting than the thought that you are constantly being surveilled by some narcissistic god that holds you accountable to some prehistoric ideas of morality, detailed in one of 3 extremely vague books (that you are solely responsible for figuring out which one is the correct one) - then force you to live for eternity in some weird world that is either full of happiness or misery.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by zamler

If you don't choose then who does?

No one chooses. Either you believe something or you do not. Beliefs are formed through various types of evidence and inference, and one cannot simply change whether or not they are convinced of a thing any more than he can change his own feelings of joy, fear, anger, love or sadness in any given situation.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Because one cannot simply choose what to believe. I also cannot stomach the hypocrisy, anti-intellectualism and anti-progressivism. The things I miss are the feeling of being part of something much bigger than myself, the camaraderie and community.

Well stated. You don't miss the church (dogma) as much as you miss the church (community). I can understand that and respect the hell out of that. I've been approached by a number of organizations that would like my involvement/membership, but I can't get past the "belief in God" thing. I would like to be a member for the social and intellectual aspects, but the hypocrisy of belief is not something I can't stand. I wish more people would maintain your scruples and stance.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Is it curious, though? I'd say in North America we're way more immersed in Christian influences than Islamic ones. I know dozens of Christians. I know zero Muslims on a personal level.

I know a Catholic guy with whom I interact every day who has disowned his daughter because she's gay. Known her since she was a kid, too. It's heartbreaking to watch, and I'm sure yesterday's news emboldened his stance.

Is criticizing Islam unacceptable? I can agree I don't see it as often, but I'm not seeing anybody criticize Raelism, the Moonies, Wicca, etc., either. I don't see Islam trying to influence my life I'm leading here in Calgary. I do have Kenney and other politicians invoking their religion and making decisions influenced by their religious stance, though, so there is an affect on me that I can and should object to.

There are 56,000 students in the Calgary Catholic School District. Those kids are being taught that a gay relationship is a sin and will result in a couple burning in hell for eternity. That's evil and is poisoning the thinking of our fellow Calgarians. They're sharing a damaging delusion and it incumbent upon rational thinkers to object to that sort of insanity.

I think it's safe to say the opinions people have toward Christianity in general can be applied to all other religions, though. Other religions may not receive as much criticism here simply because they aren't as omnipresent.

Is it evil? I’m not involved in the religion, but someone correct me here:

Catholics who believe homosexuality is a sin aren’t hoping gays are damned. If, by some crazy setup I’ll never understand, they actually believe in damnation for sins, they’re not actually evil or malevolent for trying to convince others are they? I’d make the argument that a catholic who believes I’m going to hell, and tries to get me to repent or whatever the hell they call it, that’s not ‘evil’.

The thing that isn’t so clear to me, is who gets to decide whose morals are right or wrong? I think you are bat #### ####ing crazy if you believe or follow any of that, just as a religious person my think I’m eventually going to hell for that belief. I mean obviously the crimes of the church are a separate topic here, as there’s no way to let that #### slide.

But grandpa Joe and Betty Sue think my lifestyle is going to condemn me to hell? If somehow they’ve been indoctrinated to believe that, and only want to see me live a life of reconciliation with God to avoid eternal damnation? Sure, they might be ####ing looney-tunes but malicious? I don’t see it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

Well stated. You don't miss the church (dogma) as much as you miss the church (community). I can understand that and respect the hell out of that. I've been approached by a number of organizations that would like my involvement/membership, but I can't get past the "belief in God" thing. I would like to be a member for the social and intellectual aspects, but the hypocrisy of belief is not something I can stand. I wish more people would maintain your scruples and stance.

I am out of thanks, but "Thanks."