Flames fire Geoff Ward, hire Darryl Sutter, signs 3 year deal

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Their changes are about 90% execution and energy IMO. The breakout looks pretty much the same, only faster, which has opened up their options. The biggest change is a full dump and chase used way more often.

The ability to execute plays and chances with energy is almost 100% confidence and trust.

Trust in yourself breeds trust in others.
Trust breeds confidence.
Confidence in yourself breeds confidence in others.

Sutter excels at organizing a straightforward game plan around trust and confidence. He has elite vision in evaluating what/how each player can contribute towards that plan (How the puzzle pieces fit together.)

In 2006 after the Olympics I distinctly remember his response to the question “What went wrong with the Canadian Olympics team?”

His response:
“They got away from playing a Canadian style of hockey, and playing with a hard forecheck and recover pucks.”

I believe he & Bruce Boudreau coach a similar style;

Canadian: Hard forecheck, recover pucks, in order to sow chaos in the offensive zone and securely let skill players make plays / physical players play physical with awareness of minimizing turnovers and odd man rushes against.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Honest question, is Geoff Ward your uncle or something?

Just hate stuff like this.

The site has differing views, that's a good thing. Don't try and marginalize someone's opinion by suggesting the only reason they would have it is due to nepotism.

Be better.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Just hate stuff like this.

The site has differing views, that's a good thing. Don't try and marginalize someone's opinion by suggesting the only reason they would have it is due to nepotism.

Be better.

You do realize that a member of your mod team is one of the most acerbic posters on the site right?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by nik-

You do realize that a member of your mod team is one of the most acerbic posters on the site right?

I think I'm pretty consistent in suggesting be better on behavior like this. Are you suggesting otherwise?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think I'm pretty consistent in suggesting be better on behavior like this. Are you suggesting otherwise?

If it's consistent then I'm suggesting it's not effective.

[Kovaz]

When you listen to coaches talk about how they want to play, they all say largely the same things: attack fast, hard on the puck, protect the middle of the ice, limit turnovers, etc. But at the end of the day you can't be good at everything all of the time. When I hear Sutter talk about "style", to me, that's about which attributes you focus on. When you have to choose between two good things, and you can only pick one, your choice determines your style of play. For example:


Counterattacking with speed, entering the zone with possession, limiting turnovers. If you're lucky, you can pick two of them. This may be my imperfect memory, but I recall Ward talking a lot about turnovers in various interviews. And from my eye test (whether this was Ward or the players, who knows), we really tried to enter the zone with possession. So the result: we have a slow counterattack. Now Sutter comes in, and from what I've seen he's emphasizing attacking with speed and limiting turnovers. So with Sutter, now we're dumping the puck a lot more. I'm sure it's the same system, in terms of the X's and O's drawn on the whiteboard, but the play looks so different with a shift in priorities like that.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by nik-

If it's consistent then I'm suggesting it's not effective.

And this is?

I try and be pretty honest about things. I think my track record stands for itself over 24 years.

Moderators are voluntary positions, and I stay arms length from who does it and how it's regulated as I don't want to be super cop on my own site.

I like to think I respond to pissy posts like that when I see them. I'm sure I've missed some as I don't read everything. You'd like me to stop?

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think I'm pretty consistent in suggesting be better on behavior like this. Are you suggesting otherwise?

So be as condescending as you like, just don't invoke a relation got it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flame On

So be as condescending as you like, just don't invoke a relation got it.

You disagreed with my post then? You thought that was a fair question in the discussion about coaching style? That's good with you?

You end a sentence with "got it" and you're accusing me of being condescending?

that's pretty funny

[Pizza]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And this is?

I try and be pretty honest about things. I think my track record stands for itself over 24 years.

Moderators are voluntary positions, and I stay arms length from who does it and how it's regulated as I don't want to be super cop on my own site.

I like to think I respond to pissy posts like that when I see them. I'm sure I've missed some as I don't read everything. You'd like me to stop?

I dont think anyone is disagreeing with the "Be better" advice. What I see nik's post is implying is that same advice should apply to one mod in particular. I agree, we should all "be better" but it needs to start with that mod by being a good example of that instead of taking pot shots at members

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Pizza

I dont think anyone is disagreeing with the "Be better" advice. What I see nik's post is implying is that same advice should apply to one mod in particular. I agree, we should all "be better" but it needs to start with that mod by being a good example of that instead of taking pot shots at members

Everyone has filters and biases even if they think they don't.

I try and be as neutral as I can on behaviour like that but I'm certainly not perfect.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Everyone has filters and biases even if they think they don't.

I try and be as neutral as I can on behaviour like that but I'm certainly not perfect.

I dont think anyone here has any beef with you. The other 2 though. Ugh, one is an obvious troll and the other one a smarty pants know it all going around preaching to everyone. And we are asked to let people have different opinions? And he likes to post 100 times a day so no way to escape that.

I know you can't do anything about it. I just hope they read these comments and pump their breaks a bit.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You disagreed with my post then? You thought that was a fair question in the discussion about coaching style? That's good with you?

You end a sentence with "got it" and you're accusing me of being condescending?

that's pretty funny

Don't disagree with your sentiment, just feel like there's a lot to go around with different posters. Also I don't agree that "got it" is condescending at all. Now sarcastic, sure hands-up to that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Boreal

The ability to execute plays and chances with energy is almost 100% confidence and trust.

Trust in yourself breeds trust in others.
Trust breeds confidence.
Confidence in yourself breeds confidence in others.

Sutter excels at organizing a straightforward game plan around trust and confidence. He has elite vision in evaluating what/how each player can contribute towards that plan (How the puzzle pieces fit together.)

In 2006 after the Olympics I distinctly remember his response to the question “What went wrong with the Canadian Olympics team?”

His response:
“They got away from playing a Canadian style of hockey, and playing with a hard forecheck and recover pucks.”

I believe he & Bruce Boudreau coach a similar style;

Canadian: Hard forecheck, recover pucks, in order to sow chaos in the offensive zone and securely let skill players make plays / physical players play physical with awareness of minimizing turnovers and odd man rushes against.

I agree with everything except I don't think he and Boudreau are similar, at least, not in their approach to players.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

When you listen to coaches talk about how they want to play, they all say largely the same things: attack fast, hard on the puck, protect the middle of the ice, limit turnovers, etc. But at the end of the day you can't be good at everything all of the time. When I hear Sutter talk about "style", to me, that's about which attributes you focus on. When you have to choose between two good things, and you can only pick one, your choice determines your style of play. For example:


Counterattacking with speed, entering the zone with possession, limiting turnovers. If you're lucky, you can pick two of them. This may be my imperfect memory, but I recall Ward talking a lot about turnovers in various interviews. And from my eye test (whether this was Ward or the players, who knows), we really tried to enter the zone with possession. So the result: we have a slow counterattack. Now Sutter comes in, and from what I've seen he's emphasizing attacking with speed and limiting turnovers. So with Sutter, now we're dumping the puck a lot more. I'm sure it's the same system, in terms of the X's and O's drawn on the whiteboard, but the play looks so different with a shift in priorities like that.

Did you ever hear Geoff Ward talk about “checking for chances?” That was one of his philosophies, to check hard and to check often. I don’t think any coach would ask a player to willingly dump in the puck if they can instead skate in to the offensive zone with possession. There’s a great level of autonomy for hockey players here that I think most posters here are not taking into account. It’s not like a video game where players are controlled like they’re robots. They read the play and make the smartest decision from there and so forth.

Although I will say I do agree that the players are dumping it more often then usual especially noticeable with Johnny Gaudreau. Not sure if they’re scared of turning it over and getting benched or if Darryl is preaching simplicity. Regardless, effort is the only way this particular group of players is going to win puck battles and 50/50s and that’s what they’re doing right now. As I said before though, not sure it lasts past this season though as the pattern would suggest otherwise. If anyone can stop that pattern though, it’s probably Darryl.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Red

I dont think anyone here has any beef with you. The other 2 though. Ugh, one is an obvious troll and the other one a smarty pants know it all going around preaching to everyone. And we are asked to let people have different opinions? And he likes to post 100 times a day so no way to escape that.

I know you can't do anything about it. I just hope they read these comments and pump their breaks a bit.

When everyone you meet seems like an a-hole...

Seriously, which one do you think is a troll?

I think the moderation here is great...I hardly notice it exists at all. Now and then someone pushes the limits of decorum trying to be funny and gets the post squashed. Otherwise terrible takes/opinions are given a super long leash...the mods just don't restrain themselves from arguing against them...often that means a snippy response which is the most those takes deserve.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I agree with everything except I don't think he and Boudreau are similar, at least, not in their approach to players.

Yeah, I think you’re right.

Boudreau probably was the right hire when Gluegun was brought in, but not now.

[dino7c]

I never understood why the "get a winning coach" crowd would constantly suggest guys that have never won.

Darryl is an actual winning coach...I didn't want some guy who won with a stacked team in the regular season and then choked in the playoffs.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Moderators are voluntary positions, and I stay arms length from who does it and how it's regulated as I don't want to be super cop on my own site.?

I volunteer! Let me back in!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Boreal

Yeah, I think you’re right.

Boudreau probably was the right hire when Gluegun was brought in, but not now.

Boudreau is not an ass kicker like Darryl. He's kind of a softy and it only took guys like Ovie so far. TBF, only Trotz has really taken them far and then just the once before they parted ways. And Anaheim did no better without him than with him.

You could argue that Minnesota's results with Boudreau might be the end result if he came to Calgary. They also were arguably not a natural fit in the POs.