Hanifin & Tanev are one of the top pairings in the league right now.
Trading Hanifin right now would be dumb. IMO. Especially as they push for a playoff spot.
Trading a lump of core players for players from random teams when the team at large is getting used to a new coach and vice versa is also not the best idea.
Keep everyone until the deadline, if you're out of it then, make some moves. Otherwise re-assess in the off season.
Absolutely! There shouldn't be a 'push' to make a change any longer on this team. Let's see how this team is performing under Darryl, and what kind of pieces are missing. I would want the Flames to acquire players in trades that actually have a playstyle that supports the coach's philosophy, and can fill a hole. I mean, the top RW spot is a hole that you can see from outer space, but it may not be that important as it seems with the Flames capable of rolling 3 lines.
I think it is much more important for the Flames to analyze the players under Sutter, and after a stretch they can better figure out which players should stay, which are expendable as trade chips to improve the roster, and which players have to be jettisoned. I think if all you do is think: "RW hole - let's try to get any bona fide 1st line RW than we can obtain", then you run the risk of using up valuable assets on something that won't pan out anyway.
Give Darryl a good stretch of games, see how the players perform, and then start making moves (if necessary - Flames may never lose again!), starting with the trade deadline and continuing into the off-season.
I didn't want to see big trades happening under Ward's tenure, as I felt this team needed a proper coach first. Flames just got him now, and it is time to give him the rope to do his job with the existing players, and then ask him: "Who do you like to stay, who is fine but expendable, and who do you want off this team?", with the follow-up question: "What holes do you see on the roster, and what type of player do you to fill it?"
When Sutter was both GM and Coach, his trades were money. They usually resulted in that spot being filled perfectly. He addressed the needs of the team through trades. The more years went by, the trades didn't have the same impact or fit.
This won't be about Darryl Sutter getting 'Partial GM duties" or "Roster movement decisions". It is about what I think every single team in the NHL should be doing with a coach they trust - work with him in finding the right pieces to support how he wants this team to play. Sutter won't get a yay or nay, but he should most definitely be consulted (after getting to know the roster and seeing how the players adjust).
Should take time. Unless something really juicy is made available, or a deal that is just too good to refuse, I think the best move is to wait and see on this roster and what's really missing.
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Just looking at the schedule and if the Flames are going to be involved in any "hockey trades" between now and the trade deadline where we're removing players off our roster to bring in other players, the only date it makes sense to do it is April 5th right after game against the Maple Leafs (if the quarantine period is in fact shortened to 7 days).
Making a trade after that Leafs game would mean that the only two games we'd be working with a roster "short" of some players would be the April 8th and April 10th games against Vancouver. That's the only window of time that it makes sense to make a "hockey trade", and even then only if the quarantine period is shortened to 7 days. Definitely a tough time to make trades.
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I don’t see the Flames making any trades before the end of the season, unless we fall out of contention of a playoff spot and it’s selling at the deadline. I think Sutter will be our only season acquisition and the team will be evaluated/changed in the off season.
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Absolutely! There shouldn't be a 'push' to make a change any longer on this team. Let's see how this team is performing under Darryl, and what kind of pieces are missing. I would want the Flames to acquire players in trades that actually have a playstyle that supports the coach's philosophy, and can fill a hole. I mean, the top RW spot is a hole that you can see from outer space, but it may not be that important as it seems with the Flames capable of rolling 3 lines.
I think it is much more important for the Flames to analyze the players under Sutter, and after a stretch they can better figure out which players should stay, which are expendable as trade chips to improve the roster, and which players have to be jettisoned. I think if all you do is think: "RW hole - let's try to get any bona fide 1st line RW than we can obtain", then you run the risk of using up valuable assets on something that won't pan out anyway.
Give Darryl a good stretch of games, see how the players perform, and then start making moves (if necessary - Flames may never lose again!), starting with the trade deadline and continuing into the off-season.
I didn't want to see big trades happening under Ward's tenure, as I felt this team needed a proper coach first. Flames just got him now, and it is time to give him the rope to do his job with the existing players, and then ask him: "Who do you like to stay, who is fine but expendable, and who do you want off this team?", with the follow-up question: "What holes do you see on the roster, and what type of player do you to fill it?"
When Sutter was both GM and Coach, his trades were money. They usually resulted in that spot being filled perfectly. He addressed the needs of the team through trades. The more years went by, the trades didn't have the same impact or fit.
This won't be about Darryl Sutter getting 'Partial GM duties" or "Roster movement decisions". It is about what I think every single team in the NHL should be doing with a coach they trust - work with him in finding the right pieces to support how he wants this team to play. Sutter won't get a yay or nay, but he should most definitely be consulted (after getting to know the roster and seeing how the players adjust).
Should take time. Unless something really juicy is made available, or a deal that is just too good to refuse, I think the best move is to wait and see on this roster and what's really missing.
We know what pieces are missing. Elite 1C, at least 1 top end right winger, and possibly top end LW as well. The team isn't magically a cup contender because Darryl showed up. It's still iffy for bottom 6 forwards and the 5,6 D. I mean, it's great that Leivo scored, but if you think that he was the problem on this team... well, that would only show how poor the team is. BT needs to get some work done. Getting a real coach was just the beginning.
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I don’t see the Flames making any trades before the end of the season, unless we fall out of contention of a playoff spot and it’s selling at the deadline. I think Sutter will be our only season acquisition and the team will be evaluated/changed in the off season.
I wish I shared your optimism. We’ve been hoping for personnel changes the past couple of off seasons and have been disappointed with the outcome.
We know what pieces are missing. Elite 1C, at least 1 top end right winger, and possibly top end LW as well. The team isn't magically a cup contender because Darryl showed up. It's still iffy for bottom 6 forwards and the 5,6 D. I mean, it's great that Leivo scored, but if you think that he was the problem on this team... well, that would only show how poor the team is. BT needs to get some work done. Getting a real coach was just the beginning.
This 100%. I get that people want to see what DS can do but let's not forget, most of our core had career years and we've seen how good we can be, and it's still not good enough IMO. Right now is the time to make trades because we have Sutter so he could extract the most out of the guys while we wait for the big fish to land.
Guys like Hanifin who's been playing great should be considered in a swap if it means better for the future. Let's face it, this team is not a future contender. I'd still consider Tkachuk, Monahan, etc if the price was right. We always are wanting to sell when our guys have low value. Why not start moving guys while value is still there.
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Whilst I agree it is great to have Sutter and we can hopefully get the team moving forward, I am still in the move JG camp, purely from an asset managment point of view. If we let him get to the point where his limited NTC kicks in we are right back to the same problem we had with Iggy.
If he is showing no signs of wanting to get a new contract done, get the best return for him now.
People will say that we shouldn't be weakening the team if we have a chance at the playoffs but that is a short term view, we also need to look to the future.
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Whilst I agree it is great to have Sutter and we can hopefully get the team moving forward, I am still in the move JG camp, purely from an asset managment point of view. If we let him get to the point where his limited NTC kicks in we are right back to the same problem we had with Iggy.
If he is showing no signs of wanting to get a new contract done, get the best return for him now.
People will say that we shouldn't be weakening the team if we have a chance at the playoffs but that is a short term view, we also need to look to the future.
Couldn't agree more, but Hall being on the market again sucks for getting value out of JG. Obviously JG is the superior player at the moment, but Hall can be had more cheaply w/o ED implications, and for nothing but money in the off season.
It will be hard to move JG for good value before the NTC kicks in.
Couldn't agree more, but Hall being on the market again sucks for getting value out of JG. Obviously JG is the superior player at the moment, but Hall can be had more cheaply w/o ED implications, and for nothing but money in the off season.
It will be hard to move JG for good value before the NTC kicks in.
I disagree, you put JG on the market, you aren't going to struggle for buyers. You don't give away a player but you will get even less value once that ntc kicks in.
I disagree, you put JG on the market, you aren't going to struggle for buyers. You don't give away a player but you will get even less value once that ntc kicks in.
The other thing you do is eat half of his remaining salary to maximize the return. Imagine how valuable he would be to a contender at 3.375 for this year and next. That’s how you retool on the fly. Do the same with Gio.
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I like the basis of the PHI deal. Konecny + 2nd for Gaudreau would be something I’d look at. Philly knows they’re getting a guy who will be there for the next 7-8 years, and we get a RHS RW who is younger and may fit the style of the team better going forward.
Not comparing the types of players or situations but this sounds like when BOS traded Seguin because he didn't fit the Julien style.
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Are the same armchair GMs who want to trade all of the good players away the same people with the histrionics in the game threads and PGTs at how the team has played?
There are a lot of really good players on this roster, and finally after 5 years, have an actual coach with proven success.
I look forward to seeing what a coach who is known for getting the most out of people can do here. And actually enjoying the games on the ice
These guys are in their prime and that’s when you see what you can get out of them. Not like the last kick at the can with Iggy when that train had clearly sailed
Last edited by DeluxeMoustache; 03-13-2021 at 01:01 PM.
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I disagree, you put JG on the market, you aren't going to struggle for buyers. You don't give away a player but you will get even less value once that ntc kicks in.
I should clarify, I don't think his value improves once in his NTC kicks in, but I think there are a lot of factors that suppress it until that time, and I think it is unlikely we see a deal get across the finish-line before then.
I was clamouring hard to trade JG last TDL. I still thing we should move him sooner than later, but I'm not very optimistic on the return. It doesn't seem like a year where everyone will be loading up and other GM's will feel the need to keep up.
I do think buyers will be willing to trade 2021 draft picks since it's a weird crapshoot year, but that's not what this team needs presently.
We know what pieces are missing. Elite 1C, at least 1 top end right winger, and possibly top end LW as well. The team isn't magically a cup contender because Darryl showed up. It's still iffy for bottom 6 forwards and the 5,6 D. I mean, it's great that Leivo scored, but if you think that he was the problem on this team... well, that would only show how poor the team is. BT needs to get some work done. Getting a real coach was just the beginning.
I am not stating that this team is a bona fide cup contender. I mean, maybe they are, maybe they aren't. It is pretty tough to figure that out when coaching has been such an issue. However, even taking the argument of "This team needs to make massive moves to become a cup contender" (arguing about how close or how far they are isn't the point I am making), we first have to do a proper analysis of this team.
Has this team been successful in the past? No. But this team hasn't had proper coaching either.
We have a proper coach now. Before moving the players, let's figure out which players fit within his style of play. Keep those players (no matter how good or not they are perceived to be) as 'untouchables' so to speak, and concentrate on moving the players out that don't fit. Use the players - whomever they may be - to then acquire other players that fit the holes and play style of the team.
I think that's the logical approach to building a contender.
I also think that trading some of the talent on the team is going to result in getting less talented players back. I am actually ok with this, as long as those players fit this team. But if you make those trades, and the piece doesn't fit, then you are shooting yourself in the foot and spinning your wheels.
I watched Calgary spin their wheels for 3 seasons under Brent Sutter's tenure. I am tired of watching this team continue spinning wheels from Gulutzan through to now.
Now is the time to figure out what you have and what you need, based on how the players are working AND performing under Darryl. Make your moves based on that. You can definitely put some thought into past performances and so on, but the Flames haven't played in a system that is this much 'work' since Hartley. Let's see which players can handle that workload and have that commitment first and see who starts fading away.
My philosophy has always been that the teams that have the most success in the NHL are the teams that are the best built. Not always the most talented, but the best built. Find a strong coach, figure out how you want to play, and find the players that will thrive under that system and environment. Not everyone on this team is going to want to do (or will even be able to) what Darryl asks of them. Some may surprise you (like Leivo so far in the very short sample size). Keep an open mind and sharp eyes out until the trade deadline (April 12 - 1 month away). I wish it was at least 2 months to properly assess, but not all the pieces will be moved out and moved in this season. You start the process this trade deadline day, and continue it through the off-season.
Now, it goes without saying that if Buffalo calls Treliving and dangles Eichel for pennies on the dollar (or any good deals), that Treliving should of course shouldn't wait. If some talented players pop-up that have that kind of effort and have thrived under similar environments, of course you don't wait.
Point is, that this team shouldn't be the ones actively shopping players right now. Assess first, then start shopping at the TD, but keep their eyes open for any potential good fits and good deals.
Are the same armchair GMs who want to trade all of the good players away the same people with the histrionics in the game threads and PGTs at how the team has played?
There are a lot of really good players on this roster, and finally after 5 years, have an actual coach with proven success.
I look forward to seeing what a coach who is known for getting the most out of people can do here. And actually enjoying the games on the ice
These guys are in their prime and that’s when you see what you can get out of them. Not like the last kick at the can with Iggy when that train had clearly sailed
While I agree that there are some good players on the team, the right question is, are these the players to carry the team to the cup? If it’s not, is it the star players or the supporting cast that’s the problem. I don’t like the mix personally. The past couple playoffs the full team was exposed on a few fronts, big time. Size, speed and sheer creativity were all lacking. The highest players should naturally be more under scrutiny. Did they just under perform? I don’t believe so. I think they underperformed effort wise but they also didn’t have the right mix from the beginning. Tkachuk speed. Gaudreau size. Monahan speed. The supporting cast should fill in some needs but the major guys just don’t have it as an identity to start. Then add in the cap issues from the lower players and it tells a further story. I’d like to see Sutter work something but let’s not completely ignore the last couple years performance and the lessons learned from what was seen. It’s not a championship roster.
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Just to be clear about something else. I think what’s of utmost importance right now is the cap situation with the wrong players getting tied up in long and/ or expensive contracts. How they do it I have no clue but the biggest priority should be attempting to get away from Lucic and Backlund’s contacts. If you can find a way to move those off the books, a star player can be signed or acquired, or they can get back to hockey trades.
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Just to be clear about something else. I think what’s of utmost importance right now is the cap situation with the wrong players getting tied up in long and/ or expensive contracts. How they do it I have no clue but the biggest priority should be attempting to get away from Lucic and Backlund’s contacts. If you can find a way to move those off the books, a star player can be signed or acquired, or they can get back to hockey trades.
Backlund might be 1M overpaid, tops
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GFG
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Agreed. I think it's more than just the salary. It's about what the salary and skillset fits in with a championship team. I personally prefer him as an ideal third liner and that salary is a bit too much for that place, but that's debatable to many on here admittedly.
