Flames fire Geoff Ward, hire Darryl Sutter, signs 3 year deal

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

They were the same two goalies as when the Flames put together that improbable season on the back of numerous comebacks in 2014–15. The same two goalies were also on the team in the last year of Gulutzan's and the first season of Peters's tenure. Goalie performance does not come close to explaining the stark differences between these seasons.

Plus, in 16-16, Hiller (the one most people blame) was did not have the majority of starts and, while he had a much worse save% than Ramo, the team only won two or three more games for Ramo. The team lost 20 points from the previous season.

And Ramo's save % and GAA were each only 3% different from the year before but his winning percentage was way off. meaning the team in front of him was bad.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

They were the same two goalies as when the Flames put together that improbable season on the back of numerous comebacks in 2014–15.

Yes, but the goaltending that second season was BAD. Especially Hiller. Ramo started to get better before he got injured but his problem was he could not make that save to keep the team in the game that the other goalie was making.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Is this fact? Because this seems very anecdotal.

In Hartley’s final season in 15-16, he lead the team to a 25th place finish. There certainly weren’t enough comebacks that season.

In Bill Peters final season right before his departure, his team was struggling mightily to score and sat at an equally disappointing record of 12-12-4. Once again, not enough comebacks in there.

Quite simply put, this is a team of coach killers. They help their coach make the playoffs one season and then falter badly the next season. They’re an easily satisfied bunch without a ton to offer their opponent. If Sutter can fix this core’s problem from year to year, then he truly is an elite coach.

I love the coach killer narrative.

Because really it's just shooting/save percentage differences. Prior to this season this was a team that got bottom third of the league goaltending consistently, but their shooting percentage was sporadic.

2014/2015: Corsi For: 46.8% (26th), Shooting Percentage: 10.5% (2nd), Save Percentage: .911 (16th)

2015/2016: 49.1% (20th), 9.55% (6th), .892 (30th) - Goaltending is what got Hartley Fired

2016/2017: 50.4% (12th), 9.3% (15th), .907 (21st)

2017/2018: 53.1% (2nd), 7.8% (29th), .905 (21st) - Shooting and save percentage cratered

2018/2019: 53.8% (4th), 10.9% (3rd), .903 (21st)

2019/2020 (Peters): 50.8% (11th), 7.58 (29th), .905 (16th) - Shooting percentage combined with racism got him fired

I left the stats under Ward out because honestly it's kind of the same story where the shooting percentage has dropped of this year. But to me this is the first coach I think they truly quit on.

Under Hartley they just didn't have a very good team top to bottom yet and got the worst goaltending in the league that year.

With Gulutzan they just didn't get any puck luck, but their underlying and advanced metrics were great.

In year one under Peters it all came together. Great advanced metrics combined with good shooting percentage but still below average goaltending, and they finished 2nd in the league.

Then under Peters to start the year the next year the shooting percentage cratered and he was fired for non-hockey related reasons.

So I don't fully believe this is a team of coach killers going back to their entire tenure here, outside of Maybe Ward who I do think they might have given up on.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by SilverKast

I love Sutter's coaching style and he's one of my favorite coaches. It'll be interesting to see which players thrive under him and which can't handle it - because there will definitely be a few who aren't going to be able to handle someone who straight out tells it like it is. Sports in general has taken a real shift towards making sure everyone feels good and is happy, where we all get a medal just for playing. I like the old school approach - if you want it then you better be ready to work for it.

I think there may be a few surprises with who does well and who crumbles under the pressure.

I think we have to differentiate how different types of 'hard ass coaches' go about their business.

"Iron" Mike Keenan: (In his prime, not semi-retired Keenan we saw in Calgary) - he would rip you, but it was also the mind-games that he would play on you apparently. It kept everyone unsure of where they stood. You played hard because you didn't want to get chewed-out, or have Keenan try and scramble your brains.

Bob Hartley: Much more of a straight-shooter. He is not afraid of telling you like it is, but he goes too far at times. He didn't play mind games like Keenan did - not exactly. Sarich shared his story about being scratched a bunch of times in a row, so he said screw it, and went golfing and had a few beers the day before a game. Hartley found out, and suddenly inserted him into the lineup. I don't really consider that much of a mind game. He would threaten players with getting sent down, stuff like that. That's not terrible really. What is terrible is how much and at what times he would take a strip off a player, and keep doing it.

Darryl Sutter: He will yell at you, and he is all business. Don't feel like working hard today? That's fine. Have a front row seat and enjoy the game. He is not afraid of using what coaches have absolute power in - managing minutes and who gets to play. He will rip you for not playing right, but he will hug you too. You hear about players disliking him, but you also hear about players absolutely loving him. So many players are ready to run through a brick wall if Darryl asks them to, and that's because they want to win for him, not because they are scared of what he will do or say. He is definitely a hard coach who makes you work, takes a strip off of you, but builds you back up and makes you feel important. That's the difference.

Bill Peters: I don't really know how he was (outside of a not so great human being, as we all know by now), so I haven't got a clue as to where he fits in.

That's how I differentiate between the hard asses. For the record, I think Torts is more like Darryl Sutter, but just not as good of a coach

[GioforPM]

Hartley wouldn't just yell, he'd go overboard, and I never considered him a straight shooter as much as a psycho who couldn't control himself. And telling a player they will be sent down when they say they can't fight because of concussion issues that haven't cleared up, or when they tell you they think they need an ex-ray on their foot isn't "fine".

Hartley punished O'Brien for standing up for Sven. And he got Grats to dislike him which seems pretty hard to do. I read somewhere that Hartley was the only coach that player had ever seen added to a NTC (in other words, wherever he is, no trade).

I think Hartley's tactics work more on young kids, like Gaudreau and Monahan were, and guys like Bouma and Jooris, because they are used to junior coaching, and don't feel like adults yet. It's vets who figure they are grown men who don't need to be humiliated that push back, and by the end of Hartley's tenure, that included Monahan and Gauadreau as well.

[Strange Brew]

Jay Feaster was the only GM who would have hired Hartley so that sums up much of the conversation for me.

As a coach, he wasn’t as bad as most of the guys after him but that is faint praise. They also would not have been hired by any other organization as HC.

[djsFlames]

Hartley was a loose cannon for sure but he was also effective in some of the things he did, and motivated some minor miracles out of this team late in games. You can't deny him that.

You could say he was old school hard ass with the threats of demotion and coercing guys to fight. A true cold blooded dinosaur.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Hartley was a loose cannon for sure but he was also effective in some of the things he did, and motivated some minor miracles out of this team late in games. You can't deny him that.

You could say he was old school hard ass with the threats of demotion and coercing guys to fight. A true cold blooded dinosaur.

I can deny it in 3 of 4 seasons.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Bob Hartley: Much more of a straight-shooter. He is not afraid of telling you like it is, but he goes too far at times. He didn't play mind games like Keenan did - not exactly. Sarich shared his story about being scratched a bunch of times in a row, so he said screw it, and went golfing and had a few beers the day before a game. Hartley found out, and suddenly inserted him into the lineup. I don't really consider that much of a mind game. He would threaten players with getting sent down, stuff like that. That's not terrible really. What is terrible is how much and at what times he would take a strip off a player, and keep doing it.

It's terrible that he had to do that to try and get through to some of the players. I don't think he is a psychopath that just gets off on tearing strips off players. Maybe they are too used to coaches eventually relenting.

I love Sarich, but that story doesn't really reflect well on him. It doesn't matter if you are a healthy scratch for a few games, you are still paid to be in condition to play at your best level at any moment. If Hartley did that to teach him a lesson, then good.

[bdubbs]

I didn't see this posted anywhere else but just reinforces what I'm sure all the Flames players understand now after two practices: https://www.tsn.ca/advice-to-calgary...nger-1.1605301

[3rd liner]

One media outlet reporting it was a bag skate yesterday. Good.

[DropIt]

Will be interesting to see if Wards system was really broken or if the players just sucked

[Backstop]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

I didn't see this posted anywhere else but just reinforces what I'm sure all the Flames players understand now after two practices: https://www.tsn.ca/advice-to-calgary...nger-1.1605301

Darryl Sutter, with a grin, "Well it's good to have the Flaming C back on again"

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Backstop

Darryl Sutter, with a grin, "Well it's good to have the Flaming C back on again"

Nice to have a coach on the team who is not only a top coach, but also someone who has a genuine affinity and affection for the Flames. Hopefully it also inspires the players to take pride in the organization and to show that in how they play

[timbit]

Maybe the biggest challenge Darryl has is....

The huge problem that the Flames have with their top guys’ Even Strength Scoring results.

Lindholm ( 73rd in the NHL) has 13, Tkachuk (83) and Gaudreau (84) have 12 and Monahan has 11(121).

That is putrid production for a teams top forwards. If the team is going to make a run , those 4 players’ even strength points have to increase dramatically.

[TheRealPepman]

Will we eventually know how much Sutter's contract is for the next three seasons? One week in the new job and nobody knows.

[djsFlames]

Based on Darryl using the word "excited" when describing the re-hiring process, I'll bet on it being more than Ward's salary.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Inferno

There wasn't any goaltending either. To come back you actually need your goalie to keep you in the game.

I don’t know, first half Mike Smith in 18-19 was almost as bas as it gets, but the team was scoring at will. Anyone remember that unbelievable comeback against Philadelphia?

This Flames team in general has had a lot of comeback wins. I think I saw a graphic on Sportsnet that claimed the Flames had the most comebacks of any team in league at 22 (not sure which timeframe they started from). Now that could because this team is always starting poorly as well, but regardless, this team has had plenty of comebacks in spite of poor goaltending.

Ironically, they finally land a franchise goaltender this season and now their ability to comeback is non-existent.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by DropIt

Will be interesting to see if Wards system was really broken or if the players just sucked

Think I saw a quote from Darryl that said the system was fine, but the style wasn’t...still not exactly sure what he means by that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Think I saw a quote from Darryl that said the system was fine, but the style wasn’t...still not exactly sure what he means by that.

Same system, more urgency, I expect.