I think we need to see what this team is made of under Sutter, probably bigger trades won’t happen until the offseason.
Once we see what we actually have, and how the team is performing, we might have an “identity “. Maybe then management can determine if a player like Eichel will fit in to our style of play.
I've watched a number of Canucks games the past few years, but I honestly don't recall Markstrom being as much of an adventure leaving his net as he has been so far in Calgary. Canucks fans on site, can you comment on this? Was he always this adventurous?
Markstrom has been an adventure coming out of his goal since the World Juniors.
He was out of control in that final against Canada.
__________________ ”All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.”
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Did Mangiapane get injured in the game last night? His TOI was under 12 minutes and I don't remember seeing him much in the 3rd period.
He took a shot in the shoot out had he shot the puck high into the empty net, instead of shooting into Murray's pad while he was flat on the ice, Flames would have won.
No one has said that. What has been said is Eichel and Monahan are in the same strata of players. They play very different games but produce in the same band of centers which includes Toews, Pavelski, the much hyped O'Reilly, Kuznetsov, and Seguin. Is Eichel a more dynamic player? Yes. Is he better? That is very open to debate. Is he a franchise player worth $10M a season? Again, very open to debate but I don't believe so. Would I trade for him? Yes, but with very guarded expectations and with something built into the deal to minimize risk. I will say this about the Eichel situation, there are a lot of people who are suggesting that with a Draisaitl level player that Eichel would rip it up, well what about the addition of Taylor Hall? Is a recent Hart Trophy winner not enough to light a fire under Eichel's ass? The excuses for this kid are insane.
I posted this last week (now with a few revisions after some good feedback).
Spoiler!
IMO of course, and not in particular order within tiers. Older guys...several could probably drop a tier, but I wouldn't write them off so fast
2nd Line C at best:
Johansen, K Hayes, RNH, Duchene, Strome, Strome, Domi, Trochek, Kadri, Backlund, Stastny, Getzlaf, etc.
Vegas guys probably fit into tiers 2 & 3...I'm sure I'm missing a few others.
We can always argue about guys who are ascending, descending, stagnating, etc, but I think the prime groupings are pretty tough to argue about for the most part. Seguin and Zibanejad could probably fit in either 2 or 3...
That's 20 in tiers 1&2, and another 12-15 in tier 3 (a few questionable as pure C's). I think it's okay if there are a few more than 31 "#1C's" in the league.
I think the margin between tiers 2&3 can seem pretty darn thin (Pettersson and Barzal may belong higher), but ultimately I don't think it's that hard to draw the line between consistent ~PPG players and ~65pt players.
Was curious about playoff performance for who I see as the top tiers:
ROR - Conn Smythe
Point - coin-toss with Hedman for CS
MacKinnon - PPG+ in every series except SJ 2019. 8G, 22P in 12gp last year, though a donut in game 7 (5-4OT loss to DAL), despite playing 28 mins (more than everyone on both teams except Girard/Makar)
Aho - PPG+ overall, though 8P in 3gp vs. NYR last year...
Scheifele - PPG+ excluding sweep age 21
Couturier - it's kinda complicated, but he's been pretty solid (since blooming)
McDavid - 9P in 4gp losing effort play-in last year (yet only +1); only 9P in 13gp 2017...
Draisaitl - 6p in 4gp; 16p in 13gp...3g2a in elimination game 6 against ANA rd2 (McAvi had 0 pts). Both guys put up donuts in game 7.
Barkov - 3P in 6gp age 20; 4p in 4gp last year
Matthews - meh-average. donuts in each elimination game since rookie year
Zibanejad - small sample, meh-average
Seguin - pretty meh (13p in 26gp last year)
Eichel - TBD
No earth-shattering conclusions...I suppose only a few guys have really been able to sustain an elite level in the PO's...regarding Eichel, I'm not sure his lack of playoffs should be much more damning than half of the guys above...
Of Tier 3, Kuznetsov showed up huge in the cup run (but otherwise mediocre); Couture is nearly PPG since his rookie year and led the team by a fair margin in the finals run. Didn't look too closely at everyone though.
I think we need to see what this team is made of under Sutter, probably bigger trades won’t happen until the offseason.
Once we see what we actually have, and how the team is performing, we might have an “identity “. Maybe then management can determine if a player like Eichel will fit in to our style of play.
Yes, for people looking for a big move -- Darryl was the big move. And even if it becomes clearly apparent that it's the core that is rotten, you're probably not going to see any of them traded during the season this year thanks to COVID.
If you've followed this team for the past 3+ years, it's going to be a fascinating next 30 games to see how it plays out.
I am personally not too bothered by the team last night. It was just further confirmation of what I have been seeing unravelling here for them this season. The more they played, the more disorganized and confused they look out there.
I argue that most of the players are giving an effort out there. Confusion can be misinterpreted as effort in my opinion. When you don't know where to go or what exactly to do, you hesitate, you hold onto pucks a bit too long when you shouldn't, and then you panic and get rid of them too quickly before you made a good decision. From the top down, this team just seems like a confused and rattled mess, and they have been getting worse.
That's poor coaching.
Does Ottawa look confused out there? At times they do when the pressure is on (and that's what pressure is supposed to do - create breakdowns in the other team's system). Last night they looked like the more veteran team out there. Calgary was more rattled.
Nobody on the Flames had a strong night. Lots of players had strong moments for sure, but nobody last night had a consistently strong game. Markstrom was solid in net, terrible with his adventures out of the net. Bennett looked terrible to start, but then came on strong. Valimaki made some great plays, and sometimes looked weak out there. I thought Giordano was mostly strong, but he missed stuff out there too.
This is why Ward was fired. This team's performance. It wasn't just the win/loss record. 2 weeks before he ended up getting fired I felt it was time to do so as there weren't any fixes being implemented. The team looked confused. That's how Lebrun characterized Montreal this year - confused players out there. That's how I characterize the players here in Calgary - confused. The coach was fired, and they are still uncomfortable out there not knowing what to do all the time, and having about 4 kernels of confidence to spread among themselves.
Chapter is officially turned now. That era is over. I don't think it is a time for wholesale trades, to blow things up - I don't think there is any other moves to be made right now. Everyone gets a fresh sheet of paper. Every single player on the team are getting new beds starting Thursday, because every single player on this team has shat their own bed at various times this season.
Yesterday's game no longer means anything to me except that they got a point. I don't think that this team needs to trade any of their players, nor do I think this team has to keep any of their players. This is a complete blank slate for me. I want to see what Darryl does. I want to see who buys in and who fits where, and then judge how they are doing at their respective roles as it unfolds.
Some players might surprise you with how much more they have to give. I think Hartley made Backlund, in a way. When Backlund first joined the league, he was going to be this 'offensive centre'. When that didn't happen right away, Brent Sutter caged him up and told him he was going to be a defensive centre. Gave him one job only - to stop goals. Brent was a terrible coach. When Hartley came on, he told Backlund that being just that isn't good enough, and he challenged Backlund to be both. He screamed at Backlund when Backlund cheated on defensive coverage. He made Backlund accountable, and I would say Backlund really came into his own at that time.
Darryl is a good coach. He will get the most out of this roster. This roster will work hard, they will stop being confused, and they will start playing as a team. He will fix all the locker room issues (his teams are always close).
The pieces that don't fit? Well, that's what the trade deadline is for, and what the off-season is for. Right now, every single player is going to wake up on Thursday morning to a brand new bed with brand new sheets. That's how I look at it.
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I've watched a number of Canucks games the past few years, but I honestly don't recall Markstrom being as much of an adventure leaving his net as he has been so far in Calgary. Canucks fans on site, can you comment on this? Was he always this adventurous?
Sometimes. He figures himself a Marty Turco. He is not.
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They aren't "similar" they are in the same strata of centers as far as production is concerned. Eichel is in the same strata as Seguin and neither of those players are similar either. Scoring production and outcome supersedes what you perceive as "style."
I guess I'm not the only one since numerous hockey outlets rank Eichel in the top 10 of players in the league and one of the best centres vs. Monahan who isn't even ranked
I didn't bother to read the rest of you're drivel beyond the first paragraph. I suggest watching games that don't include Calgary and not solely relying on google.
As far as production, Monahan (0.75 ppg) isn't in the same "strata" as Eichel (0.95 ppg). The difference in production is 0.20 ppg. Would you rather have Drasaitl over Nathan Mckinnon? Drasaitl's ppg is 1.02 ppg and Mckinnon's 0.95 ppg. You can't simply just compare production for 1 player to another when they play on different teams, to many different variables to consider. Yet many would consider McKinnon in Mcdavids tier.
I guess I'm not the only one since numerous hockey outlets rank Eichel in the top 10 of players in the league and one of the best centres vs. Monahan who isn't even ranked
I didn't bother to read the rest of you're drivel beyond the first paragraph. I suggest watching games that don't include Calgary and not solely relying on google.
As far as production, Monahan (0.75 ppg) isn't in the same "strata" as Eichel (0.95 ppg). The difference in production is 0.20 ppg. Would you rather have Drasaitl over Nathan Mckinnon? Drasaitl's ppg is 1.02 ppg and Mckinnon's 0.95 ppg. You can't simply just compare production for 1 player to another when they play on different teams, to many different variables to consider. Yet many would consider McKinnon in Mcdavids tier.
MacKinnon is the next most explosive skater in the game after McDavid.
But he’s not at McDavid’s tier.
Sid is, and that’s the club.
For me, anyway.
__________________ ”All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.”
And we want to trade our 1st (which is looking like a top pick) Monahan and Lindholm? Plus pay Eichel 10 million?
Maybe there is a trade to be made, and maybe Calgary and Buffalo line up, but overpaying for Eichel isn't the solution to turn this team around
I'm not saying we want to trade our 1st, I'm just saying it might be what we have to do to outbid other teams and bring him to Calgary.
He's coming off back to back seasons where he produced significantly more than a point per game, and he didn't have a scorer like Johnny on his line. I'm sorry but Jeff Skinner is not Johnny Gaudreau.
For whatever reason Hall looks nothing like the player he was in NJ. The entire Sabres team is a mess right now, and I don't have much doubt that a change in scenery would do Eichel a world of good. Put him on a line with Johnny and either Mangi or Dube, and the results could be beautiful.
Who knows if making a big move to bring in Eichel is the best thing to do; none of us get paid the big bucks to make those kind of decisions. But it does seem like FINALLY having a legit #1 center (and a young one at that) would be a great thing for this team going forward.
