Flames fire Geoff Ward, hire Darryl Sutter, signs 3 year deal

[standinmotion]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Lol Milan knows.

And seems like he and Backs are cool with it. Good to see from the leadership.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Brad Marsh

I'm so happy about this!

My favorite line from the presser today, and I'm paraphrasing, but in response to one of the questions about expectations for the rest of the season Sutter said something like: understanding the price that it takes and the commitment that it takes to win

This is one of those moves that makes everything feel right again. Can't wait to see how the rest of the plays out.

Also liked how Sutter talked about the talent that's on the team. I know he wouldn't say otherwise, but you genuinely get the impression that he thinks a lot of the necessary pieces are in place.

Darryl: this is 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will..

[standinmotion]

Originally Posted by Brad Marsh

Also liked how Sutter talked about the talent that's on the team. I know he wouldn't say otherwise, but you genuinely get the impression that he thinks a lot of the necessary pieces are in place.

The man doesn't need a job. IMO, if he doesn't think he has the talents to turn this around, he would have refused the job. I had a bit of a goose bumps when he mentioned unfinished business and all the people that passed away but "will be watching us". The Flames make me interested again!

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by New Era

I see a Johnny Hockey trade coming. Nashville for Forsberg? Seems more like a Sutter player.

Not likely going to happen unless Flames have something more significant to offer. Gaudreau for Forsberg one-for-one won't happen. If Tre can pull it off with any multi-player deal for Forsberg, he'll have my respect for life!

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Not his drafting. In his first four years as GM the only players of note drafted by the Flames were Dion Phaneuf, Brandon Prust, Adam Pardy and Adam Cracknell.

I will take his drafting record in the first two years since it came with all the other changes he made to the club. Yeah trading away a second round pick in November hurt his draft in 2004. I'm giving that move an A+ however.

I'm not defending his entire tenure. But I don't agree with nitpicking his accomplishments at the outset. It was an incredible run that transformed the club quickly.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It was pretty clear about the time period being referred to and not his whole tenure. And his first two plus years were incredible.

My comments stand. He was eroding the asset base and drafting poorly in that period too.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

As for Lindholm - I don't have an explanation for why he is not really working at centre. I mean, he has nights where he seems like the defacto 1st line centre on this team, and then stretches where he seems invisible. I think Darryl will continue keeping him where he is though - don't think he is going to convert him to the wing.

A couple of things:
Dube is coming off a hat trick while on Lindholm 's line so that trio is good and hopefully continue (especially Dube's strong play).

I was watching clips of Lindholm and if you're asking why the offense isn't there (because he is working out well imo at centre duties) as much, I notice his offense is tied to him shooting. Not only goals but a lot of his assists come from his being in a shooting position (respecting his shot and release).

Maybe that's a function of being a winger but Tkachuk as set up man and Lindholm getting into spots to shoot should work.

I recall Darryl saying many times how he liked Swedish trained hockey players.

I also agree about Gaudreau. I think Darryl knows where Gaudreau can be deadly on the ice - what he can be successful at and what isn't a realistic expectation. Gaudreau getting his first hat trick should be vivid for how Johnny played that game. Almost getting 4th goal against Quick.

[btimbit]

I'm just glad we have a guy that knows what it takes to be an NHL coach, and like Treliving said, we will have stability in that spot for a few years.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Not likely going to happen unless Flames have something more significant to offer. Gaudreau for Forsberg one-for-one won't happen. If Tre can pull it off with any multi-player deal for Forsberg, he'll have my respect for life!

Really? I think Gaudreau is better than Forsberg or at least a significantly more dangerous offensive player.

That being said, I think the Preds will be looking for picks and prospects, since that team is not looking promising going forward.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Not likely going to happen unless Flames have something more significant to offer. Gaudreau for Forsberg one-for-one won't happen. If Tre can pull it off with any multi-player deal for Forsberg, he'll have my respect for life!

Not that I think any trade will happen, but you are badly over-rating Forsberg or under-rating Gaudreau, here. I don't see why the Flames would need to offer anything "more significant."

[Jiri Hrdina]

Just watched some of the conference.
Like others the unfinished business stands out. Both charges me up and saddens me. That team deserved to win so badly and anyone involved still feels the pain of not winning it. You could hear that.

The discomfort of BT, for me, was more about him being on camera for so long while not being the one talking, since Darryl was on the phone. That's just awkward for anyone. I don't read into it anything other than that. Example of people seeing what they want to.

I also buy into the "maximizing performance" issue. If Darryl can do that I will be happy to admit that I've under-rated the role of a good coach. The funny thing is its also the precise reason why Button hired him.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I will take his drafting record in the first two years since it came with all the other changes he made to the club. Yeah trading away a second round pick in November hurt his draft in 2004. I'm giving that move an A+ however.

I'm not defending his entire tenure. But I don't agree with nitpicking his accomplishments at the outset. It was an incredible run that transformed the club quickly.

How is it "nitpicking" his accomplishments to point out that the Flames's drafting under the entirety of Sutter's tenure as GM is abysmal? I agree with you about how he quickly transformed the roster when he assumed the job in 2003, but this is besides the fact that the Draft was always Sutter's most glaring shortcoming.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Just watched some of the conference.
Like others the unfinished business stands out. Both charges me up and saddens me. That team deserved to win so badly and anyone involved still feels the pain of not winning it. You could hear that.

The discomfort of BT, for me, was more about him being on camera for so long while not being the one talking, since Darryl was on the phone. That's just awkward for anyone. I don't read into it anything other than that. Example of people seeing what they want to.

I also buy into the "maximizing performance" issue. If Darryl can do that I will be happy to admit that I've under-rated the role of a good coach. The funny thing is its also the precise reason why Button hired him.

It's also the exact reason he got hired in LA.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Just watched some of the conference.
Like others the unfinished business stands out. Both charges me out and saddens me. That team deserved to win so badly and anyone involved still feels the pain of not winning it. You could hear that.

The discomfort of BT, for me, was more about him being on camera for so long while not being the one talking, since Darryl was on the phone. That's just awkward for anyone. I don't read into it anything other than that. Example of people seeing what they want to.

I remember just sitting on my bed in disbelief. I was in high school at the time and it didn’t even hit me that the run was over. Like, I thought, lets just get them back the next game, but obviously it was done. If I remember correctly, it was dreary and rainy the next day. How fitting for such a sombre day.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

My comments stand. He was eroding the asset base and drafting poorly in that period too.

LOL.

He inherits a bad team and within one season transforms them into a SC contender.

You should check your math on the first two years as well. He didn't bleed draft picks like you think he did, primarily because he didn't trade away picks on bad players and wasn't afraid to deal from the roster to acquire picks.

In 2004 he had 5 picks in first 4 rounds after making massive improvements to the big league roster. Just an incredible feat frankly.

The drafting wasn't great the first two years but not absolutely horrible either. It got worse. A lot worse.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Not that I think any trade will happen, but you are badly over-rating Forsberg or under-rating Gaudreau, here. I don't see why the Flames would need to offer anything "more significant."

Yeah, I fail to see why Forsberg would have significantly more value than Gaudreau but I think people have just given up on Monahan and Gaudreau.

I think some people think we would be lucky to get a second for Monahan

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

LOL.

He inherits a bad team and within one season transforms them into a SC contender.

You should check your math on the first two years as well. He didn't bleed draft picks like you think he did, primarily because he didn't trade away picks on bad players and wasn't afraid to deal from the roster to acquire picks.

In 2004 he had 5 picks in first 4 rounds after making massive improvements to the big league roster. Just an incredible feat frankly.

The drafting wasn't great the first two years but not absolutely horrible either. It got worse. A lot worse.

Didn't say he was bleeding picks. He sure wasted them though by not being able to draft.
I said he was eroding the asset base including due to poor drafting, but also because he traded away guys like Lydman for nothing.

But I would suggest we agree to disagree. I'm happy he's back in a role that he's really good at. I don't want him near the GM chair.

Elite Coach.
Terrible GM.

My view.

But this is a good day. I'm excited.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

How is it "nitpicking" his accomplishments to point out that the Flames's drafting under the entirety of Sutter's tenure as GM is abysmal? I agree with you about how he quickly transformed the roster when he assumed the job in 2003, but this is besides the fact that the Draft was always Sutter's most glaring shortcoming.

I was agreeing with the poster that Sutter's first two years as GM were, on balance, incredible. So a response of "yeah but" does feel like nitpicking.

Who is claiming that he had a good drafting record under the entirety of his tenure? I guess it's just a need to point out the negative. How the turns have tabled.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I remember just sitting on my bed in disbelief. I was in high school at the time and it didn’t even hit me that the run was over. Like, I thought, lets just get them back the next game, but obviously it was done. If I remember correctly, it was dreary and rainy the next day. How fitting for such a sombre day.

We were in the process of moving from Calgary to the West Coast during the SCF. I listened to Game #5 overtime on the radio while driving back from house shopping. A big group of us watched Game #6 at a friends where we were staying in White Rock. I recall talking to my brother-in-law on the phone and asking him to pick up copies of both papers the next morning in the event that the game ended as it should have. We drove back to Calgary on Monday, and arrived home about ten minutes into the first period. I was an absolute nervous wreck the whole time, and pretty miserable for days after.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I was agreeing with the poster that Sutter's first two years as GM were, on balance, incredible. So a response of "yeah but" does feel like nitpicking.

Who is claiming that he had a good drafting record under the entirety of his tenure? I guess it's just a need to point out the negative. How the turns have tabled.

The timeline has changed since the original comment, that I was reacting to, which was
"But until the Phaneuf trade, he was a good GM"

That's not the first 2 years.
He became GM in 2003. He traded Dion in 2010. And through that period he became a not good GM.

It's not 2 years. It's 7 years.
If you want to evaluate a GM on 2 years go for it. But they are there to manage the short and the long-term.