Brad Treliving needs to go

[Red]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

He gets outbid when other teams can offer more.
What is the Flames equivalent offer to beat Laine+Roslovic? Specifics please. What would you have specifically given up to try and beat that offer?

And here is where we will keep in circles. I dont play "trade proposals" It's pointless.

But for a second think in real terms. Does the team have assets that would make the Jackets make the trade?

IMO, yes. Now, you may not like to let Valimaki go, or Tkachuk, Mangi or whoever. But dont say that there was nothing there. The Flames have plenty of good assets. But the GM seems to value them a lot, maybe too much.

Do you think a Valimaki + Bennett was a good offer 3 years ago? Not sure for which player, but just in general. It seems like almost 2 untouchables in one package. Add one of the now failed prospects we no longer have if you'd like.

And now think about today. We don't have those guys, but we have that big shiny RW, and Mony and Johnny are lighting it up.

Is the team better?

Essentially a 5-6th D of today but with potential and a scrub for a top line RW? Sign me up.

Sometimes you have to pull the trigger.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Your point remains weak as you fail to truly look at each scenario.

Dubois- I doubt there was a single fan on here that would have traded Tkachuk for PLD prior to the deal. It was reported that was the ask. It was speculated by Friedman and Lebrun that Gaudreau or Monahan were offered but the Jackets wanted Tkachuk.

Great point, we all expected a big year from Tkachuk. Now that it isn't happening its easy to look back and make that trade. We would have virtually-killed Tre at the time though.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Your point remains weak as you fail to truly look at each scenario.

Dubois- I doubt there was a single fan on here that would have traded Tkachuk for PLD prior to the deal. It was reported that was the ask. It was speculated by Friedman and Lebrun that Gaudreau or Monahan were offered but the Jackets wanted Tkachuk.

Stone- wasn’t going to sign here and they didn’t have the room to make the deal. We can discuss why they weren’t in a position to make that trade but the fact is had they moved Valimaki++ to get him it would have been a rental and the fans would lose it over giving up a piece like Vali for 20 games of a great player.

Kane was another rental trade with no guarantee he stays. In fact the Shakes overpaid on term and money to keep him. If the flames did the same you would just be complaining about the loss of assets and boat anchor contract on the team

Anderson it was reported that he was looking for either a 1 year deal straight to UFA or a 7 year deal. That was all his camp was willing to discuss. He scored 1 goal last season and was going to cost Monahan in a deal. I don’t blame him for not taking the risk there.

Toffoli was a cap issue just didn’t have the money to offer him.

Laine is a head case and would have cost Tkachuk at minimum. Not interested in that price.

Again you are trying to make a point without any critical though whatsoever. Just stating a fact but not looking at the supporting information. That crap works on Facebook but be prepared to get challenged on it here.

Look, you want logic? Stop telling me what fans would or wouldnt want. It's irrelevant.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Red

And here is where we will keep in circles. I dont play "trade proposals" It's pointless.

But for a second think in real terms. Does the team have assets that would make the Jackets make the trade?

IMO, yes. Now, you may not like to let Valimaki go, or Tkachuk, Mangi or whoever. But dont say that there was nothing there. The Flames have plenty of good assets. But the GM seems to value them a lot, maybe too much.

Do you think a Valimaki + Bennett was a good offer 3 years ago? Not sure for which player, but just in general. It seems like almost 2 untouchables in one package. Add one of the now failed prospects we no longer have if you'd like.

And now think about today. We don't have those guys, but we have that big shiny RW, and Mony and Johnny are lighting it up.

Is the team better?

Essentially a 5-6th D of today but with potential and a scrub for a top line RW? Sign me up.

Sometimes you have to pull the trigger.

Instead of looking backwards (any kid can do that) why don't you look forward and tell us what Tre should do today so that we can come back here and bask in your GMiness for posterity?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

He gets outbid when other teams can offer more.
What is the Flames equivalent offer to beat Laine+Roslovic? Specifics please. What would you have specifically given up to try and beat that offer?

That is basically how every trade works for every GM. When he wants the player, like with Hamonic, he blows the other teams offers away and bids the highest. These are choices that GM’s make, he felt that we really needed Hamonic to join Giordano, Brodie, Hamilton and Stone. So he made sure we got him. He decided that year that having Brouwer, Frolik and Stajan in the top 9 and having a sophomore in Tkachuk in the top 6 was fine but we really needed another dman. That same offseason Drouin was acquired for a former 1st and a second, we likely could have used assets for him but we used them on Hamonic. The Blues used two first round picks and a cap dump to acquire Brayden Schenn, we may have been able to do that, but GM’s prioritize need and Hamonic was the need. That offseason Brad decided that a stay at home dman like Hamonic was the priority, he used assets that he likely could have used for Schenn and Drouin on Hamonic.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Former 5th overall pick with a high degree of two-way skill? Yup.
Dubois had 49 points last year. Similar to Lindholm's pre Calgary production. He had one season in the 60s.
Not too different.
But I get it. Only include if it suits your argument.

PLD is only one player out of the pile and he scored like mad before getting injured.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Great point, we all expected a big year from Tkachuk. Now that it isn't happening its easy to look back and make that trade. We would have virtually-killed Tre at the time though.

Just because Tkachuk's had a bad 20 games doesn't mean the rest of them will be a write off, nor the rest of his career.

Its a scathingly bad season so far, but those happen to every good player at some point.

Its easy to say you should've shipped someone off when their stock is at its lowest. But Tkachuk has posted 77 points while PLD has yet to show he can do the same, or affect game at near the same level as Tkachuk has done in his first 3 seasons.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Instead of looking backwards (any kid can do that) why don't you look forward and tell us what Tre should do today so that we can come back here and bask in your GMiness for posterity?

Ok. Well, for starters he should trade Sam Bennett for a 1st and a top prospect. Maybe from Buffalo? They have lots.

Then trade Ryan + Lucic to Montreal and get Jeff Petry. Why a D? Well, we dangle Hanifin+ the 1st from Bennett trade to Vancouver for Boeser, Horvat,their 1st and couple lower picks, remember, the Bennett pick from Buffalo could be #1 overall.
Then we move on to Simon and Leivo. Should get a few picks, a second maybe coulple 3rds?

LOL. Is this what you ask for? A fan on a forum giving you imaginary trades to evaluate?


What he should do is get a good coach and improve the top line. This team does not have one right now.

How you do that? I dont know. I dont know who is available. Seems the big fish all got dealt already.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Red

Look, you want logic? Stop telling me what fans would or wouldnt want. It's irrelevant.

What is relevant though is what it would cost to acquire some of the players you mentioned. Tkachuk is the ask for Dubois or Laine. Tkachuk is the future captain of the team. Laine and Dubois both had character issues and were trying to force their way out. Does that price make any sense to you at the time they were dealt for each other?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

What is relevant though is what it would cost to acquire some of the players you mentioned. Tkachuk is the ask for Dubois or Laine. Tkachuk is the future captain of the team. Laine and Dubois both had character issues and were trying to force their way out. Does that price make any sense to you at the time they were dealt for each other?

According to Red, price is irrelevant if you really want the player, so if you really want PLD, you should gut the team he’s supposed to join in order to do that.

Note: Though I’d be tempted to trade Tkachuk because don’t think as highly of him as you.

[Red]

Tkachuk has character issues too. Seems to be pouting because his teammates are tired of his antics.

[Red]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

According to Red, price is irrelevant if you really want the player, so if you really want PLD, you should gut the team he’s supposed to join in order to do that.

Note: Though I’d be tempted to trade Tkachuk because don’t think as highly of him as you.

Always can count on you making sh*t up. Gut the team? OK

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Red

Tkachuk has character issues too. Seems to be pouting because his teammates are tired of his antics.

Lol this guy

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Instead of looking backwards (any kid can do that) why don't you look forward and tell us what Tre should do today so that we can come back here and bask in your GMiness for posterity?

My problem with Brad is that he values the wrong things and he hangs on to his guys way too long. I personally would trade two core players for draft picks (like the Flyers have done multiple times) and move any vets that have value for picks and build around Valimaki, Anderson, Lindholm, Mangiapane and Dube with Tanev and Markstrom sticking around as veterans. All other players would be on the table. But I can guarantee that Brad will not do that.

But he just values the wrong things at the wrong time. When he traded for Hamonic I am sure he could have got Schenn for Brouwer, a first and a first or a second. That would have been a comparable package and even with two firsts would have been ever so slightly more than the value of the picks that we gave up for Hamonic. Would have saved cap space too, but Brad was never going to do that trade because he had just signed Brouwer the summer before and would not cut bait that quick and he wanted a dman more.

[Red]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lol this guy

Cause there wasn't a team meeting about him?
Cause he wasn't ticked off at them at the end of the Toronto game?


Whatever. Plug your head down the sand pit some more. But before you do, tell us once again how great Ward is. Didn't hear it enough last season.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

That is basically how every trade works for every GM. When he wants the player, like with Hamonic, he blows the other teams offers away and bids the highest. These are choices that GM’s make, he felt that we really needed Hamonic to join Giordano, Brodie, Hamilton and Stone. So he made sure we got him. He decided that year that having Brouwer, Frolik and Stajan in the top 9 and having a sophomore in Tkachuk in the top 6 was fine but we really needed another dman. That same offseason Drouin was acquired for a former 1st and a second, we likely could have used assets for him but we used them on Hamonic. The Blues used two first round picks and a cap dump to acquire Brayden Schenn, we may have been able to do that, but GM’s prioritize need and Hamonic was the need. That offseason Brad decided that a stay at home dman like Hamonic was the priority, he used assets that he likely could have used for Schenn and Drouin on Hamonic.

Jonathan Drouin? Gross
He is not what this team needs in any way, shape or form.
I don't like the Hamonic deal but I understood why it was made.

[Vinny01]

I think these are the top 5 worst moves of Treliving’s time here

1. Hamonic trade- brutal price for a mediocre player. I do think this hurt the ability to make future moves as it gutted the team of picks and the player they got back was hardly a top 4D despite the fact they paid for a top pairing guy

2. Ward hiring- this season has been a nightmare and he seems in way over his head

3. Gulutzan hiring - this wasted 2 years of the team who played a boring, bland game.

4. Neal signing- such a disaster. The team needed another top 6 forward and while Neal seemed like a fit he was terrible

5. Peters hiring- mediocre coach brought in to replace another mediocre coach. Team looked good under him for a season but he didn’t not have them ready for the playoffs. The team tuned him out in year 2 before all the bullying and racism was made public.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

Always can count on you making sh*t up. Gut the team? OK

I’m not making it up. I’m extrapolating from you saying any trade is doable if you just decide to pay whatever you have to.

So you want PLD, Winnipeg has offered Laine and Roslovic, which is acceptable. So you have to beat that, and frankly, Tkachuk alone might not do it - PLD and Laine were both drafted ahead, PLD is a C, Laine has outscored Tkachuk, plus there’s Roslovic. So you offer Tkachuk plus Mangiapane. Columbus says no, we need a C. OK so now it’s Tkachuk plus Monahan or Lindholm or Backlund because you really want PLD and in order to make the trade, you pay any price.

Gutted. Your first or second best winger plus a key centre. When you don’t have Scheifele already on your team.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Jonathan Drouin? Gross
He is not what this team needs in any way, shape or form.
I don't like the Hamonic deal but I understood why it was made.

I gave two examples curious would you have done Brouwer and two firsts or a first and a two seconds for Schenn instead of the Hamonic deal? Would have been about 3.3 million a year for the next three years in cap savings that could have been used for a dman and would have been similar value in terms of the draft picks.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Red

Cause there wasn't a team meeting about him?
Cause he wasn't ticked off at them at the end of the Toronto game?


Whatever. Plug your head down the sand pit some more. But before you do, tell us once again how great Ward is. Didn't hear it enough last season.

To me that says more about the rest of the group than Tkachuk. Look at how weak and soft the team appears since they told him to tone it down. Get the guys that have a problem with Tkachuk stirring the pot and bringing emotion to the game off the team.

I don’t think the team meeting was about him I think it was about the team coming out of yet another 5 day break completely flat.