The Deal With Geoff Ward

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And they played fast in the first game. Not at all in game two..

And they had a day off with no travel.

I honestly just don't get that second period last night. They just came out flat as a pancake, made all kinds of individual errors.

I've said it often, I'm fine with moving on from Geoff Ward if they can find an upgrade. But no coach instructs turnovers, not skating and refusing to engage in the game.

The team may have two problems. Coaching, and a complete lack of heart from key players.

The thing is, these players have played with heart before. Ward has never had HC success in the NHL, and arguably not at any other meaningful pro level either (DEL?).

I think it's more likely this current team can return to playing with heart than Geoff Ward suddenly becomes a good head coach.

[mile]

Originally Posted by Fischy13

I wonder if it's at all likely there is a coaching change coming and they have begun the quarantine process. Once the 7 or 14 days is up, Tre pulls the trigger. Players don't give up on the coach that badly typically. There is something significantly wrong here and maybe some know that Ward is done, just not until the quarantine period is over. Maybe just wishful thinking, but something stinks bad and more than the typical for this situation.

I have been wondering about how quarantine would be a factor in making a coaching change. If they were going to do that, wouldn’t they just fire Ward and make Huska interim until the new coach is finished quarantine?

If Darryl is driving down from his farm to coach this team, how long would he need to quarantine?

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Fischy13

I wonder if it's at all likely there is a coaching change coming and they have begun the quarantine process. Once the 7 or 14 days is up, Tre pulls the trigger. Players don't give up on the coach that badly typically. There is something significantly wrong here and maybe some know that Ward is done, just not until the quarantine period is over. Maybe just wishful thinking, but something stinks bad and more than the typical for this situation.

I can't imagine they'd let the players know in advance of a coaching change. If they were firing Ward they'd just do it and play with one of the assistants if quarantine was an issue.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

The thing is, these players have played with heart before. Ward has never had HC success in the NHL, and arguably not at any other meaningful pro level either (DEL?).

I think it's more likely this current team can return to playing with heart than Geoff Ward suddenly becomes a good head coach.

As I said ... happy to see Ward go. I was on Jiri's podcast suggesting they don't hire him back in the fall.

But other than a "bump" this group will go back to inconsistency and falling apart in big games with any one behind the bench.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

As I said ... happy to see Ward go. I was on Jiri's podcast suggesting they don't hire him back in the fall.

But other than a "bump" this group will go back to inconsistency and falling apart in big games with any one behind the bench.

No doubt.

But all we need at this point is a temporary bump to evaluate talent and execute some changes.

It's a necessary first step.

Also, it would be nice to be done with the 'safe' and boring hockey.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Bingo

As I said ... happy to see Ward go. I was on Jiri's podcast suggesting they don't hire him back in the fall.

But other than a "bump" this group will go back to inconsistency and falling apart in big games with any one behind the bench.

I agree.

I view a coaching change right now as one of the things that Treliving can manage. Hire a coach to be the first step towards righting the ship. Get that done, and then give that coach the remainder of the year to assess what is here and what is here beyond the trade deadline. Then start the overhaul (rebuild) in the off-season with the new coach already in place.

There’s no quick fix, but there’s no reason to not start fixing things now.

For me, it’s just time to turn the page. The longer they linger in this futility, the more damage will be done. You don’t want Valimaki/Tkachuk/Mangiapane (those being 3 examples of players to keep) playing in an environment like this any longer than they have to.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And they played fast in the first game. Not at all in game two..

And they had a day off with no travel.

I honestly just don't get that second period last night. They just came out flat as a pancake, made all kinds of individual errors.

I've said it often, I'm fine with moving on from Geoff Ward if they can find an upgrade. But no coach instructs turnovers, not skating and refusing to engage in the game.

The team may have two problems. Coaching, and a complete lack of heart from key players.

The thing is, these players have played with heart before. Ward has never had HC success in the NHL, and arguably not at any other meaningful pro level either (DEL?).

I think it's more likely this current team can return to playing with heart than Geoff Ward suddenly becomes a good head coach.

[Bingo]

I found it interesting in the fall when Ward was hired.

a) It took a long time, even longer than what Treliving suggested
b) Laviolette was hired a day earlier

Honestly think Ward was the 2nd or 3rd choice and they had to go with what they had.

Wouldn't surprise me if they were turned down by a few coaches given the team's recent struggles, and covid (who wants to move / family etc).

Could still be the case now.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

The thing is, these players have played with heart before. Ward has never had HC success in the NHL, and arguably not at any other meaningful pro level either (DEL?).

I think it's more likely this current team can return to playing with heart than Geoff Ward suddenly becomes a good head coach.

Go watch the Avalanche series again.

Didn't see a lot of heart and mental toughness there with Peters in charge.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No doubt.

But all we need at this point is a temporary bump to evaluate talent and execute some changes.

It's a necessary first step.

Also, it would be nice to be done with the 'safe' and boring hockey.

Hasn't the core talent of this group already been evaluated with the 4 coaches they've had in their tenure?

At some point they are what they are. A new voice to press their buttons, we'll see a temporary lift, and then old habits will re-surface. The ceiling of the button pressing is a 1st round playoff exit.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Hasn't the core talent of this group already been evaluated with the 3 coaches they've had in their tenure?

At some point they are what they are. A new voice to press their buttons, we'll see a temporary lift, and then old habits will re-surface. The ceiling of the button pressing is a 1st round playoff exit.

To an extent but if you have the equivalent of a 16 yr old running your enterprise and then a raging racist then another rookie and then expect success that's probably part of the problem to. Its always a little of Column A and B with the Flames.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Go watch the Avalanche series again.

Didn't see a lot of heart and mental toughness there with Peters in charge.

It's fair to question them after that series. But it's not like Peters had a history of success in the NHL. I mean, we had to wait for him to be fired from a mediocre franchise to hire him ourselves.

And you are assuming players can't learn and become better. I think it's more likely mid 20's players can learn as opposed to a mid 60's coach.

Until we've had a proven coach I'm hesitant to write-off the entire core. I'm hesitant to even evaluate this team until we have a good coach.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The team may have two problems. Coaching, and a complete lack of heart from key players.

I think what some on the get a legit NHL coach side are arguing that the issue of lack of heart and mental fortitude with the team can be resolved by coaching. The coach is the lead commander of the team. Motivating the players is one of the, if not the most important component of head coaching. It's how cinderella teams happen, and teams that need that extra push to get them over the edge do so.

This roster should be performing a lot better than they have been. This discussion has been going around in circles for over a month now, but we don't really know what the roster truly is until a coach that cannot be discredited in place.

[howard_the_duck]

I'd have to think that Treliving would have a good pulse from his leadership on the attributes of these coaches they've brought on, though.

They had the psychotic drill sergeant, the good communicator, the gruff and tumble farm boy (ALA the Sutter mold), and now they've got a tactitioner/player's coach.

4 very different coaching methods to evaluate from. I draw more from that than their collective inexperience as HC, as at least we see entirely different approaches failing in their own rights.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Joborule

I think what some on the get a legit NHL coach side are arguing that the issue of lack of heart and mental fortitude with the team can be resolved by coaching. The coach is the lead commander of the team. Motivating the players is one of the, if not the most important component of head coaching. It's how cinderella teams happen, and teams that need that extra push to get them over the edge do so.

This roster should be performing a lot better than they have been. This discussion has been going around in circles for over a month now, but we don't really know what the roster truly is until a coach that cannot be discredited in place.

Personally, I think it's a cop out to just discredit 4 coaches. I don't care what their track record is.

Mike Keenan won a Stanley Cup. There was wide criticism in his tenure with the Flames that it was an absolute mess under him. We are over inflating the value of a coach to continue to give this roster a pass.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Personally, I think it's a cop out to just discredit 4 coaches. I don't care what their track record is.

Mike Keenan won a Stanley Cup. There was wide criticism in his tenure with the Flames that it was an absolute mess under him. We are over inflating the value of a coach to continue to give this roster a pass.

Can you name one recent Stanley Cup winner who would have won with Ward or Gulutzan coaching? I sure can't. Coaches matter.

[Tkachukwagon]

From Friedman's 31 thoughts today:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...ce-tortorella/

9. A week ago, the message to the Flames was, “We’ve got to solve our problems ourselves.” GM Brad Treliving is not afraid to look around, but there hasn’t been anything that made sense. Following Monday’s 5–1 defeat in Ottawa, Milan Lucic was spitting fire in defence of head coach Geoff Ward on the Sportsnet 960 post-game radio show with Pat Steinberg.

“You hear a lot of outside noise talking about coaching, style of play and all this bull####,” he said. “But that has nothing to do with the coaches. That has everything to do with the guys that are playing…. We just want it easy on a night-to-night basis. We don’t want to work hard like we did when this coaching staff took over last year.”

The simple solution in these situations is to fire the coach — but Ward was given the full-time job on Sept. 14. That’s less than six months ago, and it would be such a rough look.

Dammit Elliot, we want Ward gone.

[Burning Beard]

That ugly haired goof Friedman is enjoying this too much it seems like.

[Bingo]

Listen I hope you guys are right, I honestly do.

Bring in a different hand and they all start playing on their toes consistently going foward.

Really have my doubts though.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Listen I hope you guys are right, I honestly do.

Bring in a different hand and they all start playing on their toes consistently going foward.

Really have my doubts though.

Nobody is saying other changes can’t happen or don’t need to happen. But what’s going on now isn’t just painful, it’s boring and is actively killing the will to watch hockey for a lot of fans.

That goes beyond just a crappy season. The Flames have had more than their fair share of crappy seasons, to be sure. But this is the first time since I can remember that longtime fans are saying they’re walking away. This awful brand of hockey needs to stop, but all we seem to get are the same old platitudes every few games.

This whole thing is snowballing into something really toxic, and isn’t that worth sacking up and doing something about it when the season is already pretty much a write-off? At least be entertaining if you’re going to suck.