The Deal With Geoff Ward

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Oh, two years at 900K is a guaranteed “you may be fired” contract.

The only reporting on interviews I’ve seen is one saying Treliving had done extensive interviews during the GG hire (including interviewing Ward) and he had interviewed the other guys who would have been considered. That couldn’t have included Boudreau though - he was hired.

If Green is let go I wonder if they’d look at him.

Green caught lightning in a bottle last year.

He isn't any special. His teams kinda suck, his system also isn't anything special as it tends to bleed high danger chances. He's a lateral move, if not a step down.

Vancouver has Pettersen, Hughes and a strong supporting cast and he is doing worse than Calgary.

Hard pass.

[Red]

I think Greene is a great coach. Vancouver has had a terrible roster the last few years.

Last year it was average and the team player well.

His teams overachieve.

Hughes is getting overrated. He is a high event played, on both sides of the ice. Not sure he actually makes the team much better.

[Coach]

Darryl considering the Flames after watching this past week.

[Mull]

I was under the naïve impression that management may replace Ward by some outside coach this year, but no way.

It's not the quarantine issue, it's the money.

If we have a crap year, but next year the Flames perform, fans will come back then. But this year you can't have less attendance this year due to low performance, so no profit motive.

Also, A kick-ass year this year has less potential upside than any other year.

No playoff gate revenue possibly, means less return on the investment of paying Ward + and $$ new coach this year.

Then assume the NHL looses money this year..

The economics don't make sense from an ownership standpoint to hire a quality replacement.

[Flamesfan05]

Ward has no equal

[8sPOT]

Its just hard to accept that, even though getting rid of Ward and bringing in someone with experience can't possibly produce a worse result, its not going to happen during the season. So what we have is what we have.

[Owee18]

The issue is if they do not change coaches now the team will implode. They have stopped playing for the coach now. Without making changes ASAP then good luck getting UFA here or any other players for that matter. They will think the GM , owners etc don’t give a crap on how they play. Changes need to be made this weekend. If players cannot play for a new coach then trade them. If nothing is done before off-season there will be a lot of people wanting to leave.

[Harry Lime]

For me, Ward has the same fatal flaw that Gulatzan had, and that is a combination of stubborness and hubris. Any time that this team has had success, under Peters and Hartley, it has been due to playing an uptempo style, with individual speed a factor in gaining the offensive zone. The slower players are expected to hustle, but are the default defensive line until they catch up. That has led to the Flames ONLY successes.

By slowing the game down and entering the offensive zone as a group, it lowers the skill level of guys like Gaudreau, Mangiapane, Dube, Kylington, Hanafin... to the level of a plodding fourth liner, until the opposition blueline is crossed.

These two coaches essentially take skating ability out of the arsenal. So boring and frustrating.

[devo22]

how hasn't he been fired yet? It's incredible. I'm not saying coaching is our only problem, far from it - but nobody can convince me that one can watch a Flames game these days without realizing that it's one of the biggest problems. Ward runs a frustrating system with little room for error, and there are seemingly no adjustments whatsoever. When other teams adjust, it seems his only answer is to throw the lines into a blender and hope for the best. Sad thing is many fans on here predicted exactly that when we re-signed Ward after that Dallas series instead of signing a high-profile coach. It has predictably cost us.

I wonder when we'll ever see another coaching hire that works both on and off the ice. Hartley was a great story for a year and Peters had that one great season, but for very different reasons that was shortlived. Brent, Gulutzan, Ward ... pain.

[Classic_Sniper]

I have to ask, with all the talk of systems and confusion and comparing previous coaches like Peters and Gulutzan, can anyone even tell the difference between the systems of all 3 of Treliving’s coaches?

Because from what I’ve seen and what I’ve remembered, there isn’t much difference at all, all 3 had very similar if not identical systems. Milan Lucic just the other day, said to the media that it’s the exact same system. The same system that got them into the playoffs, the same system that saw Sam Bennett play the best hockey (playoffs) of his career and the same system that won them the series against the Jets. If someone could tell me what part of this system that’s still confusing to the players, then I’d like to know.

[Calgary4LIfe]

At this point, I am 100% ok with firing Ward and letting Ray Edwards finish off the year if the Flames aren't willing to hire a new coach (or if they don't see any strong candidate).


This team is dying. They have gone from beyond 'looking confused' and are entering 'listless' mode.


This is going to be too deep of a hole to climb out of in the next 2 weeks, and I don't think for an instant that a new coach being hired will instantly turn this team around. There is more than likely going to be an adjustment period if a new coach comes in and adjusts the system, adjusts the lines, and figures out who on his team is capable of what and where and how they should be playing.


I am 100% confident that Ward is NOT the guy. Coaches have the biggest footprint on the team - that's why a lot of players blossom with a change of scenery, and others fall on their face with a change of scenery. I want to get rid of a coach who is not the guy so that this team can better evaluate their own roster and start making intelligent moves, instead of grasping at straws in the dark.


Ideally you get a coach like Sutter who is usually fantastic at managing the bench (I honestly can't think of a better bench manager of the top of my head). He is also fairly good at smelling out the rot in a lineup himself, and seeing which guys are not giving it a full effort (just ask Conroy and Iginla).



I think Lebrun said it best after the Julien firing - he saw that Montreal team not as lazy, but just confused. I don't see the Flames' players being lazy here - though tough to judge that last 3rd period. I noticed the players playing hard right through the end in the Edmonton blowout. I saw them playing hard in both Toronto games. I think this Ottawa game broke them.


I think this team is confused. Confusion leads to panic and leads to more misplays. They don't seem to either understand what Ward is demanding from them, or they aren't able to execute it. I don't think Ward is so dumb that he is going to try and implement that terrible of a system that ends up looking like this when it is working properly - so I am assuming the disconnect is at the understanding level, or the execution level. Either way, I think this team looks confused, and that's on the coaching staff. You can't have a confused team on the ice - it is your job to make sure that when the team hits the ice, they know the gameplan and structure, and what to do out there. This team doesn't seem to know that.


But hey, I also think that if you have a lazy team, it is also the coach's fault too. At some point, whomever has it in their head to be lazy and has put a number of low-effort shifts without consequence, is no longer to blame. Coach didn't deal with it appropriately.


Get a new coach - someone with experience please - and start identifying BETTER with what this roster needs, and which (if any) players are the problem. I don't think this is happening under Ward, and any significant changes in the off-season could end up being educated guesses, or change for the sake of change. At that point, you are just hoping for luck, rather than actually trying to be good.


Maybe everything above is wrong. That's ok. What I am about to write isn't:


Flames seem like the most boring team to watch, and there is no silver lining here - they are losing while providing much less entertainment than any other team I have watched so far this season, including Ottawa.


Flames have a point percentage of .471 - good for 5th in the division. The next directly ahead of them is at .579, and just fired their coach. They are 3-5-2 in their last 10, and Flames are 4-5-1. The expectations on their team was to be better than what they have been. The Flames have scored the least amount of goals in the division (Ottawa has 6 more goals scored than Calgary) - offensively they have been challenged, and it seems to be getting worse. Defensively, their GA isn't great - Markstrom and Rittich have been exceptional, but they can't stop it all, and the Flames are not helping them in the least. Every team above them is positive on the goal differential - Montreal being the worst at -6, even with Price going sub .900 this season. Flames? -10.


Flames are now 20th in the league in points, and 23rd in P% (lots of teams have games on hand over the Flames). Good news is, the Flames are tracking for a high pick this year!



Things are looking like they are getting worse. Anybody have any silver linings that they want to share?



I feel sorry for two players here - Markstrom and Rittich. They have had very little support. If you continue asking both of these goalies to make these 10 bell saves stretching out side to side all the time, they are going to both get worn out and injured.



I am not just blaming Ward. This team lost its' swagger. When I see 3 or 4 Vancouver players during that series standing there (Horvat,Pearson, forgot who the others were) and chirping Markstrom between whistles, and I see ZERO Flames players getting in their face, or at least stepping in between them and your star goalie who is the only reason that Ottawa has a worse record than you - you have a team problem.


I may not know who the right guy is to coach this team, but based on the answers he gives post-game, plus with the 'answers' with his roster decisions, line-decisions, who he throws on the ice at what times, and how this team is actually looking worse and worse as the games continue, it really seems to me that Ward doesn't have any answers. Based on what I have seen so far, and how he has managed this roster, I think he should be let-go. If the Flames don't have a candidate, I am perfectly fine with letting one of Gelinas, Edwards or Huska coach this team for however long it takes to find a replacement. Why? I can't imagine it would get much worse, and hopefully then it would at least be slightly less painfully boring to watch.


Preferably, Treliving likes someone out there that is actually, you know... capable? Then you can start the process of working back up the standings, and figuring out which players you should keep, which players are expendable, and which players you HAVE to get rid of. Don't do this blind. If you try to fix both at the same time in the off-season, you are doing it at least half-blind.

[Classic_Sniper]

Also, there’s a lot of talk about hiring Bruce Boudreau as if he’s been the missing link all along. But last I checked, he doesn’t have a Stanley Cup, he couldn’t take the Washington Capitals past the second round, he couldn’t help Minnesota be anything more than first round fodder. If anything, it’ll probably be the same result with the Flames who are the basically the Minnesota Wild of Canada.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I have to ask, with all the talk of systems and confusion and comparing previous coaches like Peters and Gulutzan, can anyone even tell the difference between the systems of all 3 of Treliving’s coaches?

Because from what I’ve seen and what I’ve remembered, there isn’t much difference at all, all 3 had very similar if not identical systems. Milan Lucic just the other day, said to the media that it’s the exact same system. The same system that got them into the playoffs, the same system that saw Sam Bennett play the best hockey (playoffs) of his career and the same system that won them the series against the Jets. If someone could tell me what part of this system that’s still confusing to the players, then I’d like to know.

A lot of people talk about Ward’s system like they are in practice listening, but then I watch games and just don’t see all the things they claim Ward preaches. At least with GG he was pretty transparent about talking about his systems and he made a point of citing Babcock (who Peters would have drawn from as well).

And of course, after all these coaches it’s hard to tell when a player is doing something Ward is coaching or if he’s reverting to an older style out of habit in the heat of the moment.

[Red]

Maybe it's not the system, but the guy trying to sell it to players?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Well, any way you look at it, at some point you have to agree that Ward has to be falling short in some area, be it strategizing, communicating, or motivating.

Could be more than one.

Also getting accountability and results

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

Maybe it's not the system, but the guy trying to sell it to players?

That’s where I land. And I think when that happens it’s a two way street for blame. The players have already done the same thing to 3 previous coaches (yes including Hartley).

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That’s where I land. And I think when that happens it’s a two way street for blame. The players have already done the same thing to 3 previous coaches (yes including Hartley).

They didn’t do it to Hartley on the ice, though, if you remember how that last season went

It was in season review and player interviews after, and he was never Tre’s guy to begin with

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Also, there’s a lot of talk about hiring Bruce Boudreau as if he’s been the missing link all along. But last I checked, he doesn’t have a Stanley Cup, he couldn’t take the Washington Capitals past the second round, he couldn’t help Minnesota be anything more than first round fodder. If anything, it’ll probably be the same result with the Flames who are the basically the Minnesota Wild of Canada.

Maybe the Wild are the Calgary Flames of America. We've basically been middling since before they were around.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

They didn’t do it to Hartley on the ice, though, if you remember how that last season went

It was in season review and player interviews after, and he was never Tre’s guy to begin with

I have no problem when Tre thinks Hartley not his guy, but when you fired "not your guy" and hired a "your guy", you make damn sure that "your guy" is better and can get better result. And "his guys" weren't better and did not get good result. After last night's game, how can he not see Ward isn't working? I'm not a hockey person by any mean, but I can see that the players looked lost. Every time they have the puck, they were thinking....and thinking....then the Sens closed in and they lost the puck.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Red

Maybe it's not the system, but the guy trying to sell it to players?

They were fine with Ward in the bubble, what’s changed? They even started pretty good this season 2-0-1. Played well against Toronto, but lost a couple close ones. They gave Montreal their 1st regulation loss. All that accomplished without the team firing on all cylinders too.

I think a big part of the problem at this very moment at least, is this team bought into their hype after the Markstrom signing. They thought they were a Stanley Cup contender and now that it’s clear to them they’re not, they’re playing with no confidence. I’ve personally have always liked this team as an underdog instead, they play harder, they don’t give up when they’re down, they’re the find away Flames.