[PGT] Sens 6 Flames 1

[GirlySports]

Brent was the worst. Wasted hall of famer Bouwmeester to protect Butler. Once Hartley got his hands on Bouwmeester, it was too late.

[Monahammer]

The way I see it there are two scenarios possible re: coaching

1. The players genuinely don't like Geoff (lack of motivation, puzzling treatment of certain players, whatever) and won't play the system he's designed. If this is the case then both the players and ward need to be held accountable (trades, fired)

2. Wards system is complicated or counter intuitive to the players. Even though they are trying, they are unable to execute it the way its designed, hence the constant failure. The additional om ice confusion is what's making them look so witless. If this is the case ward needs to go now. If a group of 30 lifelong professionals can't make your system work, it's not a good system.

Either scenario should see ward ####canned yesterday.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Is Robert on CP?

If we are talking Robert who calls in to the Fan, no he is not. He's a near 70 year old man who is terrified of computers as he sees them as an insturment of the antichrist. No I am not joking. How do I know this about him? Cause.. le sigh.. he's my dear ole dads.

[Voodooman]

It’s just such a mystery....On one hand, I want to see them fire Tre this morning, Ward this afternoon, and pretty much throw in the towel on the season.

On the other hand, it seems like the problem is in the room, and I am really starting to see Gio as a huge problem on and off the ice. Someone needs to decide if Chucky is who the Flames generally want to model the team after, and if so, then strip the C from Gio and just run with 3 A for the rest of the season. I honestly don’t think this team is altered in any significant way if Gio goes, one way or another.

But, you can’t even consider a Chucky extension given the current vibe. So, either give him a chance to shine, and kill the dour mood surrounding this team, or move him now.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

You don't finish first in the conference by fluke. You have to have talent and ability to be able to pull it off. They did something right back then. They need to figure out how to recapture what they were doing well during the first 2/3 of that season. I seriously doubt Ward is capable of doing it.

They did. That was a very strange season. The Blues were last in the NHL on New Years eve, won the cup.
Vegas and SJ had terrible first half of the season.

Those are just the 3 top team in the west that were a lot better than the Flames ad should have finished higher if not for rough starts.

[GirlySports]

3rd period comebacks too. You can only do that so many times.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think Iginla was a truly elite player. Hall of Famer. Franchise player. A guy that could do it all.
I don't see Johnny at that level.
He would be ideally suited in a complimentary role where someone else was "the guy".
Iggy was the guy.

Yes, of course. I am not and never will argue that JG is equal to Iginla.

The post that was being referenced was pointing out that JG is this teams best offensive player and we are watching yet another case of seeing a star player not reach their potential due to poor management.

That said, anyone here think that JG isn't going to light it up somewhere else in the league soon while we are all wondering what could been here? At least we won't have to worry about having his cap hit on our books.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Elite players are consistent players.
That’s what makes them elite.
Doing it once doesn’t make him elite.
The NHL has a rich history of players who had unusually high peaks that they never attained again

There’s a guy in Buffalo making $9M per year because he scored 40 once.

[cheevers]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Gio, Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk (year 4), Backlund.

Lindholm is the newest part of that...true.

Brodie and Hamilton are out though again i never considered them core guys per se.

As far as "Trelivings ex-coaches"...there are 2.

1 is in the NHL as an assistant though I agree he is unlikely to ever get another NHL HC gig.

The other would still be THIS NHL teams HC if he wasnt a bad human...so im really not sure what point you are attempting.

What is the logic in considering Backlund as part of the core, a 2nd or 3rd line centre, but not Brodie or Hamilton, who were number 2/3 defensemen?

[ComixZone]

Just going off what Friedman said this morning - that he’d scratch someone big tomorrow.

I’d scratch Backlund and Giordano.

The two longest serving Flames who have been players who have worn letters pretty much the entire time. Both have been terrible in more games than not this season.

I’d bring in Phillips and Ruzicka, I’d also scratch Sam Bennett and trade him before the weekend ends.

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Tkachuk - Ruzicka - Phillips
Lucic - Monahan - Leivo
Nordstrom - Dube - Simon

[Red]

Originally Posted by cheevers

What is the logic in considering Backlund as part of the core, a 2nd or 3rd line centre, but not Brodie or Hamilton, who were number 2/3 defensemen?

I always saw Backs as part of the core because he was drafted and then developed by the team to be a selke candidate. Now he is expendable because of his age.

Should add that I myself considered Brodie the core as well. Hamilton wasn't here long enough to set some roots on the team. Had he stayed he'd absolutely be the core now.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Come on, Jiri

How the heck did Johnny get 99 points if he is not elite

Don’t you see these guys playing a bafflingly ineffective system and skating in to outnumbered situations?

You are right that this team isn’t good. But it’s not because it lacks talent

Phil Kessel was in the 90s once. Same with Hall. Same with Todd Bertuzzi. Guy Chouinard had 107. Jiri is right - elite guys do it more than once, and they do it even when teams adjust to them. Iginla, kin the dead puck era, scored 30 goals every year, 50 in a few that went really well, changed teams and did it again.

Johnny does skate into outnumbered situations, but there’s no system that insists on that. He just does it. Because he won’t pass early enough, and he refuses to cut to the middle any more. I don’t blame him after all the hacks he’s taken. But at his peace he was going between the circles - defenders backed off because they thought he was going outside. Now he only does go outside and they’ve discovered he’s not fast enough to turn the corner.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by cheevers

What is the logic in considering Backlund as part of the core, a 2nd or 3rd line centre, but not Brodie or Hamilton, who were number 2/3 defensemen?

Brodie maybe but Hamilton was here for too short a time. I’d argue Lindholm as well. It’s not always about points or position on the team. Plus Hamilton was a loner who didn’t really get along with the team.

[Red]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Just going off what Friedman said this morning - that he’d scratch someone big tomorrow.

I’d scratch Backlund and Giordano.

The two longest serving Flames who have been players who have worn letters pretty much the entire time. Both have been terrible in more games than not this season.

I’d bring in Phillips and Ruzicka, I’d also scratch Sam Bennett and trade him before the weekend ends.

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Tkachuk - Ruzicka - Phillips
Lucic - Monahan - Leivo
Nordstrom - Dube - Simon

You can't scratch the captain who is 37 years old. No matter how bad he is playing. If he is not captain material then you suggest to him that he turns the C over. It's a nice way to handle that. And for the record, I am not suggesting he is a bad C, or a good one. I just dont have that insight.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by blender

Yes, of course. I am not and never will argue that JG is equal to Iginla.

The post that was being referenced was pointing out that JG is this teams best offensive player and we are watching yet another case of seeing a star player not reach their potential due to poor management.

That said, anyone here think that JG isn't going to light it up somewhere else in the league soon while we are all wondering what could been here? At least we won't have to worry about having his cap hit on our books.

Do you think JG lighting it up if paired with a great C or otherwise put in a better position means trading him is a mistake? Kessel got 92 points in Pitt, where never did in Toronto. And never was going to as the main guy. But on a team with Crosby/Malkin - yeah.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

You can't scratch the captain who is 37 years old. No matter how bad he is playing. If he is not captain material then you suggest to him that he turns the C over. It's a nice way to handle that. And for the record, I am not suggesting he is a bad C, or a good one. I just dont have that insight.

I wouldn’t scratch Gio unless I think he’s not trying, and I certainly wouldn’t strip him of the C unless he’s quit on the team. That never goes over well. It’s not Gio’s fault he’s old. Anyway, the C is just a patch. If there are other leaders, they will lead anyway.

You scratch guys for lack of effort, for refusing to play the way you want them to, for repeating the same mistakes over and over that you’ve been after them on. Or, with bottom guys or rookies, because of the lineup or because you want them to see a game from up top.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

If we are talking Robert who calls in to the Fan, no he is not. He's a near 70 year old man who is terrified of computers as he sees them as an insturment of the antichrist. No I am not joking. How do I know this about him? Cause.. le sigh.. he's my dear ole dads.

Give him a high five. I love his calls. His call on Saturday night was better than the game.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

There’s a guy in Buffalo making $9M per year because he scored 40 once.

There is a guy in Buffalo who makes 10 million a year and he has never scored 40. Buffalo is ripe with cringeworthy contracts.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

If we are talking Robert who calls in to the Fan, no he is not. He's a near 70 year old man who is terrified of computers as he sees them as an insturment of the antichrist. No I am not joking. How do I know this about him? Cause.. le sigh.. he's my dear ole dads.

That's awesome.

I dont listen to that show on purpose any more and actually havent in a long time, but i still know who that is when referenced.

He is nothing if not passionate, and certainly believes what he says.

Just curious what that accent is though...just cannot pin it down?

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I think you have to give Hartley credit for more than just "motivation"

- he was outstanding at line matching, line blending, shortening his bench, reading the hot hand and double shifting them
- he was strong with details. Even more recently, Giordano credits Hartley with teaching him details he never learned under previous coaches.
- he ran high intensity practices, which set the bar for how the team would approach games
- he didn't have overt vet/star favouritism. Even benched Gaudreau and Monahan, batted heads with Raymond and Sarich, pushed Backlund... he really got the most out of individuals, and when he didn't it was because they were cooked

Even if Gulutzan had better systems (and special teams), Hartley was the superior bench guy IMO. This is a guy who coached against Scotty Bowman and soaked in all the things he saw Scotty do.

My fave coach in the league is Joel Quennville... he has the systems of a Gulutzan, but runs his bench to perfection like Hartley. You need both, but given the dilemma of only choosing one... you gotta go with the guy who runs his bench well.

Hartley was also incredible at his ability for figuring out the goalie utilization from my recollection. Knowing when to start one tender over the other. Especially during the playoff win year.