[PGT] Sens 6 Flames 1

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Because they want to see a group of players, that now has an established history of not succeeding held accountable.
At least that's my answer.
There's not a single truth here. Just different views. But people are so wound up that they aren't taking the time to read or understand different perspectives.

How do you hold them accountable? You’re not going to be able to trade them all in the middle of a pandemic with a flat salary cap and weird quarantine restrictions.

So you’re just going to give up on the season and not try to improve the one thing that’s an easier change right now that’s also clearly a problem and that’s head coach.

If this is supposedly the coach they wanted then firing the coach is a good first step to holding them accountable regardless.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Why would ANYONE have game 6 on PVR?

Forgot to delete. Still there.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Who is that?

You argue against any criticism of the coaching with a diatribe against the players. You seem unable to walk and chew gum at the same time. Most people agree the core isn't good enough. They also happen to think the coaching (in my opinion none of the coaching under Treliving) has been good enough. I can't spell it out any more clearly than that. You still haven't answered the question about what Ward is doing well as a head coach.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

How do you hold them accountable? You’re not going to be able to trade them all in the middle of a pandemic with a flat salary cap and weird quarantine restrictions.

So you’re just going to give up on the season and not try to improve the one thing that’s an easier change right now that’s also clearly a problem and that’s head coach.

If this is supposedly the coach they wanted then firing the coach is a good first step to holding them accountable regardless.

Well again, I've said I don't like the coach. I would replace him.
But I'm trying to articulate the sentiment you are hearing from others - which is they are tired of the players being let off the hook. Giving them a crack at a 5th coach reinforces that.

If it were me I would fire the coach and I would actually try to make moves now. I think COVID complicates things sure, but I think if you put a couple of impactful guys on the market, who have reasonable contracts, the return might be there because there's enough of a season left.

I think the season is largely over already. I don't think this team is making the playoffs. I wouldn't make moves now to try and save it. I would make moves now thinking to the long-term.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by transplant99

You could put Dale Earnhardt Sr. in his prime behind the wheel of a Chevy Vega.

He could navigate ovals and road courses better than most available drivers in that Chevy Vega and maybe even be the best ever at doing so.

In the end though?

It's still a Chevy Vega.

This roster isn't a Chevy Vega. It's a good team on paper, at very minimum a team that comfortably makes the playoffs. '18-'19 proved that. Perhaps there was some regression since then, but this team is clearly capable of much better than they've shown this year.

As far as I can tell, these players are frustrated with trying to play Ward's system, and the lack of results night after night is sucking the life out of them...

[Chonger]

Treliving is praying that covid drags on to keep the fans out of the stands so he can continue to sit on his hands and do jack #### about the situation this team is in

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[Knut]

[GirlySports]

We can blame the players but I'd still like to see this group with a real coach. It doesn't seem fair to them that they'd had to play dumb systems all the time.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

This roster isn't a Chevy Vega. It's a good team on paper, at very minimum a team that comfortably makes the playoffs. '18-'19 proved that. Perhaps there was some regression since then, but this team is clearly capable of much better than they've shown this year.

As far as I can tell, these players are frustrated with trying to play Ward's system, and the lack of results night after night is sucking the life out of them...

Maybe it's not
Maybe '18-19 was the anomaly.
Maybe this team just isn't good.

I think it lacks elite talent.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

We can blame the players but I'd still like to see this group with a real coach. It doesn't seem fair to them that they'd had to play dumb systems all the time.

I think its too late for that. Their swagger from the early rebuild is gone. The time to get the right coach was right after Hartley. They got Gulutzan.
They 100% need a better coach but the core needs a solid shakeup.

[NewFan]

So what is the plan.
In my opinion, this team with this coach won't go far. Need player changes? need coaching changes? if it doesn't work need rebuilt with a new GM?
Easiest one is coaching change.
Bring experienced coach who can implement system that suits with these players. Don't try implement system for playoff hockey. Bring bests of these players and make decisions whom keep and whom trade.
Offseason - player changes, retool and build team for the new coach.
Next year - Decide what to do - rebuild or continue

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

The downside is that Treliving doesn't deserve another coaching hire.

If the Flames hire a coach and miss the the playoffs, Treliving will likely be fired. The recently hired coach will then be a sitting duck with a new GM.

When they fire BT (not if) they will dust the coaching staff a well...rightfully so.

Unfortunately that is not happening anytime soon.

My guess is summer of 2022. By then the boss will have completed at least 2 major moves in an attempt to keep his position that will haunt the team for years after.

Its the way of things for bad franchises in the NHL.

[Mr.Coffee]

Sorry it hasn’t been “fair” to the players??

Am I reading that right?

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by transplant99

When they fire BT (not if) they will dust the coaching staff a well...rightfully so.

Unfortunately that is not happening anytime soon.

My guess is summer of 2022. By then the boss will have completed at least 2 major moves in an attempt to keep his position that will haunt the team for years after.

Its the way of things for bad franchises in the NHL.

Can't say I disagree. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Because they want to see a group of players, that now has an established history of not succeeding held accountable.
At least that's my answer.
There's not a single truth here. Just different views. But people are so wound up that they aren't taking the time to read or understand different perspectives.

But supposing that those same posters also spend most of their time defending those core players from criticism? There are some posters here who over-react and some who always defend the status quo. Our top line was completely ineffective against Dallas. I expected a shske-up. But no. And the same posters who defend Ward also defend Treliving, also defend Monahan, also defend Gio...maybe Johnny a little less even though he remains the piece with the most value.

So what exactly is the theory to change this team?

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Maybe it's not
Maybe '18-19 was the anomaly.
Maybe this team just isn't good.

I think it lacks elite talent.

You don't finish first in the conference by fluke. You have to have talent and ability to be able to pull it off. They did something right back then. They need to figure out how to recapture what they were doing well during the first 2/3 of that season. I seriously doubt Ward is capable of doing it.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Sorry it hasn’t been “fair” to the players??

Am I reading that right?

That's right. It would be like if we kept working for ####ty bosses on stupid projects that keep failing not reaching your potential. At some point you stop working.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

This roster isn't a Chevy Vega. It's a good team on paper, at very minimum a team that comfortably makes the playoffs. '18-'19 proved that. Perhaps there was some regression since then, but this team is clearly capable of much better than they've shown this year.

As far as I can tell, these players are frustrated with trying to play Ward's system, and the lack of results night after night is sucking the life out of them...

That is you projecting what you want things to be.

How about 16-17 and 17-18? You didnt include those years when many of the same guys were involved...wonder why?

Good/great for 60 games.

Really less than average for 3 1/4 years around those 60

Which would likely be more indicative of the truth?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Maybe it's not
Maybe '18-19 was the anomaly.
Maybe this team just isn't good.

I think it lacks elite talent.

Come on, Jiri

How the heck did Johnny get 99 points if he is not elite

Don’t you see these guys playing a bafflingly ineffective system and skating in to outnumbered situations?

You are right that this team isn’t good. But it’s not because it lacks talent

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Well again, I've said I don't like the coach. I would replace him.
But I'm trying to articulate the sentiment you are hearing from others - which is they are tired of the players being let off the hook. Giving them a crack at a 5th coach reinforces that.

If it were me I would fire the coach and I would actually try to make moves now. I think COVID complicates things sure, but I think if you put a couple of impactful guys on the market, who have reasonable contracts, the return might be there because there's enough of a season left.

I think the season is largely over already. I don't think this team is making the playoffs. I wouldn't make moves now to try and save it. I would make moves now thinking to the long-term.

I agree with the overall sentiment of focusing on the future but I disagree that this season is largely over already.

We have received elite goaltending which is usually the hardest thing to get.

We haven’t played a single good 60 minute game IMO but are still only 1 game behind .500 and at most 6 points out of a playoff spot if the two teams in front of us win all their games in hand.

And it’s easier to make up ground this year with more H2H games available to close the gap.

Fire the coach, make a trade if it makes sense, and play a much more aggressive uptempo system then this passive collapse BS we’ve seen so far.

Still lots of season left for this team to turn it around and it’s why it’s even more frustrating that Ward is either incapable or too stubborn to make the necessary adjustments to the system they are playing.

Like if a random junior coach can recognize the Flames breakout system and do a full breakdown of how teams can break it down and are anticipating it, you think the other NHL coaches aren’t all over that. Yet we still haven’t adjusted our breakout. https://jmalloryhockey.substack.com/...used-cgy-needs