Brad Treliving needs to go

[transplant99]

The legend of Bob Hartley continues to grow....its Sam Bennett like!

His Flames legacy is such

124-135-25 regular season

Made the playoffs - 1
Missed the playoffs - 3

Playoff rounds won - 1
Playoff rounds lost - 1

Reputation as a nasty guy to his players.

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=166506


Not quite a fair comparison because of tenure, but Geoff Wards work thus far with the Flames

36-27-7 regular season

Made the playoffs - 1
Missed the playoffs - 0

Playoff rounds won - 1
Playoff rounds lost - 1

Players seem to like the guy a bunch and he seems to be very fair with them. Maybe thats the problem?

This is not an endorsement that GW is the right guy for this club at all. I will say that there is not enough information to make that determination either way but if you are going to, then Ward has much more success than Hartley in the regular season and did just as much in the post season.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I doubt the difference in those 4 coaches moves the needle much, if at all. Whoever gets a break or two I guess.

You've chosen quite the hill to die on.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Not quite a fair comparison because of tenure, but Geoff Wards work thus far with the Flames

36-27-7 regular season

Made the playoffs - 1
Missed the playoffs - 0

Playoff rounds won - 1
Playoff rounds lost - 1

Players seem to like the guy a bunch and he seems to be very fair with them. Maybe thats the problem?

Wow, how lame is this. Ward is undefeated!!!
Makes the playoffs every year and wins the play in!!
Oh wait, there is no play in anymore.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The legend of Bob Hartley continues to grow....its Sam Bennett like!

His Flames legacy is such

124-135-25 regular season

Made the playoffs - 1
Missed the playoffs - 3

Playoff rounds won - 1
Playoff rounds lost - 1

Reputation as a nasty guy to his players.

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=166506


Not quite a fair comparison because of tenure, but Geoff Wards work thus far with the Flames

36-27-7 regular season

Made the playoffs - 1
Missed the playoffs - 0

Playoff rounds won - 1
Playoff rounds lost - 1

Players seem to like the guy a bunch and he seems to be very fair with them. Maybe thats the problem?

This is not an endorsement that GW is the right guy for this club at all. I will say that there is not enough information to make that determination either way but if you are going to, then Ward has much more success than Hartley in the regular season and did just as much in the post season.

Why put so much effort in to the absurd comparison of very unlike situations

Hartley was key in the organization blowing it up and changing culture, breaking up the country club and get the team playing with accountability.

Everybody knows that these rosters and expectations are quite different

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

You've chosen quite the hill to die on.

I feel like it’s the opposite. I wouldn’t bet my life on any of those coaches winning. I just don’t think any of those coaches are big difference makers. Same for the majority of coaches. Quality of team, quality of opponent, chance, a big save here or there, etc, and the same coaches can have wildly different records.

I mean, the “proven” coaches we want have all been fired, many pretty unceremoniously. Coaches that have never had success suddenly do. Guys like Hartley who have a ring are shut out of the league.

Gallant’s teams have done pretty well without him. Almost seamlessly. This suggests that maybe he wasn’t as responsible as we thought.

[Jacks]

Are you seriously trying to say that Gallant wasn't a huge part of Vegas making the cup finals in their first season?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Wow, how lame is this. Ward is undefeated!!!
Makes the playoffs every year and wins the play in!!
Oh wait, there is no play in anymore.

ummm...what?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Not quite a fair comparison because of tenure, but Geoff Wards work thus far with the Flames

36-27-7 regular season

Made the playoffs - 1
Missed the playoffs - 0

Playoff rounds won - 1
Playoff rounds lost - 1

Players seem to like the guy a bunch and he seems to be very fair with them. Maybe thats the problem?

This is not an endorsement that GW is the right guy for this club at all. I will say that there is not enough information to make that determination either way but if you are going to, then Ward has much more success than Hartley in the regular season and did just as much in the post season.

No. We did not win a playoff round last season.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by transplant99

ummm...what?

You do realize that the play in round was a special one time conclusion of an interrupted season ‘play in’ and not a final 16 teams playoff round

Maybe it will help if it is put in Oiler terms.

Did the Oilers make the playoffs last year? No. They lost in the ‘play in’ (the round Ward won).

Get it?

[Gaskal]

They replaced Gallant with DeBoer, who is arguably better lol...

What an odd example...

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Why put so much effort in to the absurd comparison of very unlike situations

Hartley was key in the organization blowing it up and changing culture, breaking up the country club and get the team playing with accountability.

Everybody knows that these rosters and expectations are quite different

LOL...took me about 2 minutes but thanks.

Hartley changed the culture so much that he missed the playoffs 3 of his 4 seasons, had players openly rebelling against him and was fired for it.

But OK.

The above are nothing but what the results have been between the 2 guys to this point...no more and no less.

I just do not understand why Ward is getting completely dumped on when his record really isnt that bad overall and particularly after the circumstances he inherited.

I know what i dont know. And I dont know how good or bad or whatever Geoff Ward is a HC in the NHL because he just hasnt had enough time to prove it one way or the other, and I think is completely overlooked...has never had a full training camp with his players. A LOT of work between player/coach happens during those times.

Maybe he is the worst coach in hockey history, maybe he is the best...who knows? Nobody does because he hast had time to show us one way or the other but his results thus far are not that bad and he deserves the chance to answer the question...no?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Are you seriously trying to say that Gallant wasn't a huge part of Vegas making the cup finals in their first season?

I think that is a reasonable argument. Maybe Gallant is good at getting the most out of his players for short periods of time, but he sure does seem to wear out his welcome in a hurry. He has never lasted three seasons managing the same bench in the NHL.

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[Bingo]

Man what a pissy sensitive borderline strange discussion.

Glad I sifted through that mess!

Honestly don't know if I remember so much anger on this web site. Have a feeling it's world burning which is beyond fair.

Go easy people ... yikes.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Hartley changed the culture so much that he missed the playoffs 3 of his 4 seasons, had players openly rebelling against him and was fired for it.

But OK.

The above are nothing but what the results have been between the 2 guys to this point...no more and no less.

I just do not understand why Ward is getting completely dumped on when his record really isnt that bad overall and particularly after the circumstances he inherited.

Hartley had a poor team at the end of it's competitive window and into a rebuild. Ward has a way better team several years after a partial rebuild.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Why put so much effort in to the absurd comparison of very unlike situations

I will ask the same question: why put so much effort into the absurd notion that Bob Hartley is a good NHL coach? He can't even get an assistant's job, which is something that even Gulutzan has done, and something that Ward will do when his time here is over.

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[transplant99]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

You do realize that the play in round was a special one time conclusion of an interrupted season ‘play in’ and not a final 16 teams playoff round

Maybe it will help if it is put in Oiler terms.

Did the Oilers make the playoffs last year? No. They lost in the ‘play in’ (the round Ward won).

Get it?

Yeah i know all that, but condescension does look good on you, keep it up!

Play-in vs playoffs where losing or winning results in exactly the same thing.

But carry on.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think that is a reasonable argument. Maybe Gallant is good at getting the most out of his players for short periods of time, but he sure does seem to wear out his welcome in a hurry. He has never lasted three seasons managing the same bench in the NHL.

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But he did make a difference in Vegas making the finals right?
Mental gymnastics here.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

It is a results-based business. It has been 7 years. Do you give him 8? 10? 15? At what point do you say that it is time to try someone different? I don't know what the answer is exactly, but just because a GM makes more good moves than bad ones (at least in my opinion), it doesn't mean he is the right person for the job any longer. I am not on the bandwagon to fire him at all. I don't think that there really should be a bandwagon yet. However, the needle sure seems to be going the wrong way for him at the moment.

FWIW, Cliff Fletcher was hired in 1972, and until the team moved to Calgary in 1980 never won a playoff round. But we know how that ultimately worked out.

Maybe that's just ancient history (no cap, no analytics), and no longer relevant...but I've always wondered if NHL GM's need a leash measured longer than most. In 7 years, the players you draft in year one should be at apex, so it feels as though even judging there seems like it could be premature.

You can look at UFA's and trades over that time as well - but the majority of UFA's wind up being a boondoggle, and there aren't many non-money trades anymore.

Treliving has made mistakes. The question is if you think he's learning from them, and if he's going to repeat them? The Ward hiring feels a lot like he failed that test, as he had much the same in Gully.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I will ask the same question: why put so much effort into the absurd notion that Bob Hartley is a good NHL coach? He can't even get an assistant's job, which is something that even Gulutzan has done, and something that Ward will do when his time here is over.

Hartley isn't an NHL worthy coach and hasn't been for many years yet he has a better record than what we've had since he was fired.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jacks

But he did make a difference in Vegas making the finals right?
Mental gymnastics here.

Maybe? Who knows. If he did, that kind of achievement was very short-lived and entirely forgettable. It takes no "mental gymnastics" at all to see that Gallant has never been a long-term solution.

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