Brad Treliving needs to go

[Igottago]

I've learned tonight that playoff wins, cups, trophies, and awards don't matter to some people. Interesting way to follow a sport.

[Calgary '89]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So if you cloned the current Flames and they played themselves in a seven game series, whose team would win? Hartley, GG, Peters or Ward?

Many of you seem very confident in your answers. I’m not.

Lol sorry to splash reality on your scenario, but this version of the Flames cloned playing itself wouldn’t be in the playoffs.

That said, 7 game series are like the WJC, a short tournament so lots of random stuff can happen and they always do.

To answer your question though, I think Peters is the best of that bunch.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So if you cloned the current Flames and they played themselves in a seven game series, whose team would win? Hartley, GG, Peters or Ward?

Many of you seem very confident in your answers. I’m not.

Just my opinion, but I believe that Peters is the faraway best of that bunch. The team was having major problems when he got fired, but I think he would've turned them around. He's the only coach since Sutter that I was actually excited to hear we were hiring. He had a bit of an old school mentality, but yhe understood how the game needs to be played in the modern era. At the end of the day, I think he just required some personnel changes-which is also true of the current group. Too bad he's a filthy racist.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Calgary '89

Man all you guys arguing about Hartley? What’s next Greg Gilbert??
There’s a reason these coaches are long gone from the NHL. Hartley is a tool and never had the respect of the players cuz he didn’t respect players, it’s a known reality. Yes, he won a Stanley Cup with one of the most stacked teams of a generation so good for him. Never replicated anything near as good to that.
During his time here the Flames were known as the comeback kids cuz they couldn’t win any other period but the 3rd. It’s a fun stat but it also means you’re behind a lot.

Another thing, Treliving didn’t hire Hartley, Feaster did. Tre’s biggest mistake with coaches was Gulutzan, not because he’s not a good hockey mind but because he’s not a good leader, doesn’t know how to run a room.

Peters was a good hire, good at coaching hockey but unfortunately his past came back to haunt him and we got stuck with Ward, which if you all remember was brought in to fix the PP and he did just that. I kinda think Ward is like Gulutzan in the sense that he can’t run a room. I hope I’m wrong but I guess we’ll see.

My hot take. Peters not that great at coaching NHL hockey. Hurricanes improved immediately after he left. He had lost this team by the time he was replaced. He was outmatched in the playoffs vs the Avs.

And it’s not just his past. He doesn’t sound like a good person to be honest.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I've learned tonight that playoff wins, cups, trophies, and awards don't matter to some people. Interesting way to follow a sport.

I do find it peculiar

A lot of effort goes in to mental gymnastics to explain why successful people really aren’t, and conversely how people who have never demonstrated success in a role just may have what it takes

[Calgary '89]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I do find it peculiar

A lot of effort goes in to mental gymnastics to explain why successful people really aren’t, and conversely how people who have never demonstrated success in a role just may have what it takes

There’s more to it than pointing at the obvious result and predicting the next result. Larry Robinson won Stanley Cups and trophies as a player and then won a SC as a coach. Why hasn’t he been in any coaching conversation for years?

Did people just start thinking Barry Trotz was a good coach in 2018? He hadn’t won much of anything before that.

It’s not that trophies don’t matter, it’s the end goal but the process is the recipe! Or else it’s all pure luck.

[Calgary '89]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

My hot take. Peters not that great at coaching NHL hockey. Hurricanes improved immediately after he left. He had lost this team by the time he was replaced. He was outmatched in the playoffs vs the Avs.

And it’s not just his past. He doesn’t sound like a good person to be honest.

Yeah I can see your point, he’s kinda ornery and had a penchant for calling out players in a humiliating way. Like most old school coaches though that wears thin after a while. Carolina was pretty consistent under him and definitely took a step forward after him so at worst I’d call him a stepping stone coach.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Calgary '89

There’s more to it than pointing at the obvious result and predicting the next result. Larry Robinson won Stanley Cups and trophies as a player and then won a SC as a coach. Why hasn’t he been in any coaching conversation for years?

Did people just start thinking Barry Trotz was a good coach in 2018? He hadn’t won much of anything before that.

It’s not that trophies don’t matter, it’s the end goal but the process is the recipe! Or else it’s all pure luck.

Have you seen what Larry Robinson has been up to lately? He’s too old, Berube got him behind the bench for a while but the travel schedule was too much for him, and he just got his 10th cup ring in St Louis

I think he’s probably fine with where he’s at

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Ward has a Stanley Cup ring.

And Hartley won his with a team that had Joe Sakic, Peter Forsberg, Milan Hedjuk, Tanguay, Foote, Drury, Bourque, Blake, and Roy. And then he was gone in a year and a half because he couldn’t get that same lineup much past .500.

Hartley won a cup as a head coach with a stacked team.
Ward won a cup as an asst coach with a stacked team.
Neither are a good head coach in 2021 but up until now Hartley > Ward
It is however easy to trip over that low bar these days.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So if you cloned the current Flames and they played themselves in a seven game series, whose team would win? Hartley, GG, Peters or Ward?

Many of you seem very confident in your answers. I’m not.

Hartley definitely in if it was for a playoff run. His authoritarian methods are outdated but he would be able to implement a style of play that suits the talent of the team and would be able to hold his head above water tactically. Peters and his Babcockian methods are also outdated but he was fairly intelligent, no-nonsense and it's possible he could win a series with this group. Ward could maybe win a series if the opposition was stripped down to an AHL quality roster like the Jets were in that preliminary series but he's going to get destroyed tactically by opposition coaches as we have seen going back to the playoffs last year, that opposition coaches solve Ward after playing a few games against them as the more teams play the Flames the easier it gets to beat them. Gulutzan would have a better chance at winning a playoff series with this group than Ward as at the very least he would have the possession stats in the Flames favor and if the goaltender was hot they could steal a series. Regardless I don't think Ward is even going to get the Flames to the playoffs this season so he's probably not going to get another chance with this group.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So if you cloned the current Flames and they played themselves in a seven game series, whose team would win? Hartley, GG, Peters or Ward?

Many of you seem very confident in your answers. I’m not.

I doubt the difference in those 4 coaches moves the needle much, if at all. Whoever gets a break or two I guess.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Hartley definitely in if it was for a playoff run. His authoritarian methods are outdated but he would be able to implement a style of play that suits the talent of the team and would be able to hold his head above water tactically. Peters and his Babcockian methods are also outdated but he was fairly intelligent, no-nonsense and it's possible he could win a series with this group. Ward could maybe win a series if the opposition was stripped down to an AHL quality roster like the Jets were in that preliminary series but he's going to get destroyed tactically by opposition coaches as we have seen going back to the playoffs last year, that opposition coaches solve Ward after playing a few games against them as the more teams play the Flames the easier it gets to beat them. Gulutzan would have a better chance at winning a playoff series with this group than Ward as at the very least he would have the possession stats in the Flames favor and if the goaltender was hot they could steal a series. Regardless I don't think Ward is even going to get the Flames to the playoffs this season so he's probably not going to get another chance with this group.

Ward had his team closer to winning a round against the eventual cup finalist than GG did against a team that went on to barely defeat the Oilers and then lost their next series 4-2. And Ward won a play-in.

But, as I said above, none of these coaches are difference makers IMO.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I do find it peculiar

A lot of effort goes in to mental gymnastics to explain why successful people really aren’t, and conversely how people who have never demonstrated success in a role just may have what it takes

Mental gymnastics? Who was a better coach as of 1990 - Terry Crisp or Bob Johnson?

Tell me why Hartley didn’t hold an NHL job after Atlanta for 5 years until Calgary hired him, and hasn’t since?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I doubt the difference in those 4 coaches moves the needle much, if at all. Whoever gets a break or two I guess.

LOL I don't like Hartley but this is pretty dismissive. He won a cup as a head coach and as much as some of you try to dismiss that because of the talent on that it's been proven that the playoffs come down to a lot more than just talent. Exhibit A is Dave Lewis and his .375 playoff winning percentage with a stacked Red Wings team. It's a little insulting to say that he wouldn't move the needle over Ward who in comparison is a tiny footnote in NHL history when it comes to the head coach fraternity. You have turned into quite the shill for this organization. I'm not even sure if you believe half the stuff you post these days.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Umm... Having your team be not as ####ty as expected because of your coaching is, you know, actually a really good thing

So there’s that

“Because of your coaching”. I don’t concede that.

[TheKiprusoffResurrection]

Gulutzan a better coach then Hartley?? Ok, now I've heard it all. What a take.

On topic, I do think Treliving has run his course here. It was clear to anyone with a functioning eye after last year that this forward group, as currently assembled, does not have what it takes. To not make any changes there (aside from bringing in a few 4th liners...to play on the 1st line..) and roll with the same guys again was a massive head scratcher. If Treliving thinks this forward group can win anything I seriously doubt his acumen as a NHL GM.

Hoping for a change in the off-season, but its the Flames we're talking about, so I won't be holding my breath.

[Toonage]

So if Ward is considered the best of the bunch for how close he got his team to beating the eventual cup finalist is he not also guilty of the biggest failure, blowing that opportunity?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

So if Ward is considered the best of the bunch for how close he got his team to beating the eventual cup finalist is he not also guilty of the biggest failure, blowing that opportunity?

I don’t think he’s the best of the bunch. I am saying a couple seconds, when a mediocre goalie let in a bad one, has a huge effect on the way people perceive Ward versus Hartley. Hartley won a series against a pretty sad Canucks team that Calgary was lucky to draw. Ward was what - 15 seconds from going 3-1 against Dallas and I liked their chances if they won that game.

Speaking of wins and cups, etc, the opposing coach, Rick Bowness, won 2 rounds in 1991-92, then was a HC with 3 other teams without even making the POs. Couldn’t even get a HC gig from 1999 on except when his HC got fired in Phoenix once and then when the same thing happened in Dallas. But then he goes to the finals. Is he a good coach because he went to the Finals last year? Or a bad coach because he hadn’t won a PO round (or even made the POs) in 30 years?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

LOL I don't like Hartley but this is pretty dismissive. He won a cup as a head coach and as much as some of you try to dismiss that because of the talent on that it's been proven that the playoffs come down to a lot more than just talent. Exhibit A is Dave Lewis and his .375 playoff winning percentage with a stacked Red Wings team. It's a little insulting to say that he wouldn't move the needle over Ward who in comparison is a tiny footnote in NHL history when it comes to the head coach fraternity. You have turned into quite the shill for this organization. I'm not even sure if you believe half the stuff you post these days.

The Avs weren’t just stacked though. They were a team with HOF players in their prime. Same core won a cup without Hartley.

Lewis fell victim to a really aging roster: In 2003 when he took over from Bowman, his “stacked team” had Federov 32, Hull 38, Shanahan 33, Lidstrom 32, Larionov 40, Cujo 35, Chelios 40, Robitaille was 36. Yzerman was 37 and missed almost the whole year. And Datsyuk and Zetterberg were a sophomore and rookie respectively.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

“Because of your coaching”. I don’t concede that.

Not worth the effort. Some people are fine being proudly wrong