2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Oil depends on two guys. BUT Yamamoto becoming a decent player means they can at least ice two lines and split McDavid and Draisaitl and put Yamamoto and RNH on those two lines. That makes it way harder to play them. But they still will go only as far as their bad goaltending will take them. Koskinen and Smith are each capable of flunking out a few wins but over the season they will let them down, especially with that D.

Our D and Markstrom on Paper plus Johnny and Money should be enough to offset Mc D and Drai. Chucky, Backs and Lindholm should be able to carry the bag against Yamamoto and RNH. Its really not far off imo. Im not a Tippet fan but they just look better prepared this season than the Flames do to play which is scary since this is the Oil we are talking about.

The Flames really do need to figure out what they want to be though. Do they want to be an up-tempo speedy team like Montreal? Than they need the right Coach and a few more speedsters to pull it off. Do they want to go full 2012 Coyotes ? Then they need to get some more Lindholm / Forsberg / responsible 2 way types. They are stuck in the middle right now and good at neither style of play , with a coach that isn't good either way. The team is like a mixed bag of big and small, slugs and speedsters. Its all over the map with no identity as posters have noted before.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Right now there are 8 teams with records below .500, so a .500 record right now would put you about 10th (Seattle has the 3rd best odds) and a 11.4% chance of a top 3 pick.

No one has a "great shot", as the odds of the worse team is slightly below 50%.

The last 4 years there have been 7 - 10 teams under the .500 mark. Seems like most years there are 2-4 of those teams "around" the .500 mark. If you finish last of those teams it is possible to be only a few games under that mark and get a top 5 pick without winning the lottery.

This year it would be 6th position with Seattle and a very good chance at a top 3 pick. Also don't think adding 6th overall pick would hurt this team moving forward.

Even moving out just Nesterov, Bennett and Ryan could keep us in the top 10 and does help with the cap moving forward assuming Bennett gets 3+

If you move Gio out you probably guarantee yourself and top 5 pick and you do free up a fair amount a cap. Probably not the whole 6.75 mil assuming you retain or take someone back in the deal.

I don't think the Flames will end up in this position and more than likely will be in a playoff race but if the situations presents itself they can make moves that dramatically help our prospect pool without trading all our best players. It's possible to fix this team without blowing it up

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Our D and Markstrom on Paper plus Johnny and Money should be enough to offset Mc D and Drai. Chucky, Backs and Lindholm should be able to carry the bag against Yamamoto and RNH. Its really not far off imo. Im not a Tippet fan but they just look better prepared this season than the Flames do to play which is scary since this is the Oil we are talking about.

The Flames really do need to figure out what they want to be though. Do they want to be an up-tempo speedy team like Montreal? Than they need the right Coach and a few more speedsters to pull it off. Do they want to go full 2012 Coyotes ? Then they need to get some more Lindholm / Forsberg / responsible 2 way types. They are stuck in the middle right now and good at neither style of play , with a coach that isn't good either way. The team is like a mixed bag of big and small, slugs and speedsters. Its all over the map with no identity as posters have noted before.

On paper I agree that the Flames are even or better than the Oilers. But I do think that the impact on filling hole on each teams roster favors the Oilers. By adding Yaomoto to their roster it has allowed the Oilers to create 2 good lines rather than having McDavid and Draisaitl play together and only have 1 good line. If they have another good prospect winger come through their system it will allow them to improve more so than the Flames at this point. Good thing for us Nuge is a UFA and our top 3 centers make less than their top 2. If Nuge gets paid more than Tkachuk makes it will make things toough for them moving forward for the cap.

But for me this is the advantage of having Elite centers. Teams that have 1 or 2 elite centers need to have 4 good wingers and 2 lines of depth that just needs to bring energy and not give up goals. The flames need to create 3 good lines as they have 3 very good centers but none are elite. They need 6 good wingers to create 3 lines to match these teams. It's harder to do that IMO as almost all GM's make a bad move or 2 and when that happens we are essentially throwing out 2 good lines every night and can't seem to complete the 3rd one

Lucic is that player for us due to the Neal signing. Mangiapane and Dube have helped complete 2 lines but for me Lucic and now Bennett issues have left us with 2 good lines and there always seem to be 1 player and Lucic in the top 9 that don't belong. We now are rolling 2 inferior top 2 lines and a 3rd line no better than the rest.

Our d would be eilte of Gio was 3 years younger but for me Hanifin and Tanev is our best pairing now and the other 2 pairings are ok but they aren't difference makers either. Teams that have 2 good lines are getting good ice against average pairings and they aren't able to shut down lines that have McDavid or Draisaitl on it

Markstrom is great but he can only do so much

[Ashasx]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1363929108095320079

Sounds like the Flames are going to change the core before admitting to the hiring of a dud coach.

Classic Flames.

Can't wait to trade Gaudreau for a 2nd round pick.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

https://twitter.com/user/status/1363929108095320079

Sounds like the Flames are going to change the core before admitting to the hiring of a dud coach.

Classic Flames.

Can't wait to trade Gaudreau for a 2nd round pick.

Insert 'Why not both?' gif

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

https://twitter.com/user/status/1363929108095320079

Sounds like the Flames are going to change the core before admitting to the hiring of a dud coach.

Classic Flames.

Can't wait to trade Gaudreau for a 2nd round pick.

What gives you any indication they would trade Johnny for a 2nd pick? What big name player trade where Brad was sending a good player out did he lose?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Insert 'Why not both?' gif

Ah, the Ol' Marc Savard strategy

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Insert 'Why not both?' gif

If you can maximize the value of a trade, do it, I don't care. I don't see that happening with COVID restrictions though.

Beyond that, any trade for a core piece will almost certainly be made outside of the division and to an American team. If BT is looking to make a hockey trade (which is what this sounds like), we'll have to wait 2 weeks before the player even makes it here.

Essentially you are sacrificing the season and not likely getting full value for your players.

Far easier to get rid of the coach. Maybe he's not the only problem, but he's certainly not part of the solution. May as well see if swapping the coach helps before you throw in the towel on the season.

[Roof-Daddy]

Johnny Gaudreau for Ruslan Zanullin in.....3.....2......1.....

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If you can maximize the value of a trade, do it, I don't care. I don't see that happening with COVID restrictions though.

Beyond that, any trade for a core piece will almost certainly be made outside of the division and to an American team. If BT is looking to make a hockey trade (which is what this sounds like), we'll have to wait 2 weeks before the player even makes it here.

Essentially you are sacrificing the season and not likely getting full value for your players.

Far easier to get rid of the coach. Maybe he's not the only problem, but he's certainly not part of the solution. May as well see if swapping the coach helps before you throw in the towel on the season.

Ward was just named the head coach a few months ago. Tre will never fire him this fast.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Ward was just named the head coach a few months ago. Tre will never fire him this fast.

Agreed, but it doesn't make an obvious mistake less obvious.

It's a sunk cost. Admit fault and move on.

[djsFlames]

Also thanks Elliott for stirring the Bennett pot, completely unnecessarily at a bad time.

You and your homeless beard can #### off elsewhere.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Agreed, but it doesn't make an obvious mistake less obvious.

It's a sunk cost. Admit fault and move on.

True. Obviously Tre won't see it that way, he would look like a moron for giving Ward the job in the first place. Not to mention getting another HC wrong.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

On paper I agree that the Flames are even or better than the Oilers. But I do think that the impact on filling hole on each teams roster favors the Oilers. By adding Yaomoto to their roster it has allowed the Oilers to create 2 good lines rather than having McDavid and Draisaitl play together and only have 1 good line. If they have another good prospect winger come through their system it will allow them to improve more so than the Flames at this point. Good thing for us Nuge is a UFA and our top 3 centers make less than their top 2. If Nuge gets paid more than Tkachuk makes it will make things toough for them moving forward for the cap.

But for me this is the advantage of having Elite centers. Teams that have 1 or 2 elite centers need to have 4 good wingers and 2 lines of depth that just needs to bring energy and not give up goals. The flames need to create 3 good lines as they have 3 very good centers but none are elite. They need 6 good wingers to create 3 lines to match these teams. It's harder to do that IMO as almost all GM's make a bad move or 2 and when that happens we are essentially throwing out 2 good lines every night and can't seem to complete the 3rd one

Lucic is that player for us due to the Neal signing. Mangiapane and Dube have helped complete 2 lines but for me Lucic and now Bennett issues have left us with 2 good lines and there always seem to be 1 player and Lucic in the top 9 that don't belong. We now are rolling 2 inferior top 2 lines and a 3rd line no better than the rest.

Our d would be eilte of Gio was 3 years younger but for me Hanifin and Tanev is our best pairing now and the other 2 pairings are ok but they aren't difference makers either. Teams that have 2 good lines are getting good ice against average pairings and they aren't able to shut down lines that have McDavid or Draisaitl on it

Markstrom is great but he can only do so much

Its easier to build around a generational player than not for sure. But that's not really in the cards for the Flames regardless either way so its a moot point for the Flames. With what they have there's no reason they cant be a solid team like VGK or St Louis or heck even just where Winnipeg or Montreal is right now in the standings.

We don't need a McDavid to be a top team. Other teams do it just fine. The Flames have the trade capital to make this be a solidly built 2nd round team imo with the right give a #### mix and Coach. They do need a new coach and some change of scenery deals however. Teams like Nashville and Buffalo might work for partners.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Saqe

True. Obviously Tre won't see it that way, he would look like a moron for giving Ward the job in the first place. Not to mention getting another HC wrong.

Well, TBF he already looks like a moron for giving Ward the job in the first place.

I guess firing him would be an admission of the mistake. But still, the team is floundering under Ward. Everybody can see that.

This is basically the team that finished second overall two seasons ago, but now with an actual, real #1 goalie. Now, in now way do I think they are good enough to continually finish top 5 in the league, but they shouldn't be as bad as they are right now either.

[GioforPM]

I suppose one reason you trade a player but keep the coach is the message it sends to the rest of the team, as in, you’ve underperformed for 4 coaches, you are accountable as well.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I suppose one reason you trade a player but keep the coach is the message it sends to the rest of the team, as in, you’ve underperformed for 4 coaches, you are accountable as well.

But they did this with Greg Gilbert already. Like why go to bat for a lame duck Coach just to prove a point. If im going to go throw my lot in with a Coach it better be one that knows what the heck they are doing.

[dammage79]

Well, how many years have a lot of us said player accountability needs to happen. These guys have been protected and buffeted by management for so long now.

Ward may not be the coach and tree may have hit his shelf life but I cannot fathom keeping this core together any longer. They can't put it together. The lows are REALLY low and the highs aren't high enough.

I'll tune in just to see how this poop show develops . Because right now, I don't see the playoffs.

And I am pissed because this organization has wasted what Markstrom has given them. And Tanev for that matter. I'd be a little demoralized if I was them, signing on thinking this team was right at the cusp. It's aggravating to think about.

We get a true #1 and the team stinks it up.

[Toonage]

If you're keeping this group then you change the coach to someone that will play to their strengths. That said, Treliving is likely canned along with the coach. So to keep his job, he keeps the coach and makes changes to the personnel who will play the game Ward is trying to get them to play.

If that doesn't work Treliving gets canned, the coach gets caned and the Flames lose some good players.

Good times ahead. If I were an owner, I think I'd just cut ties with Treliving at this point rather than trust his next venture or have him make major roster decisions.

[Vinny01]

The problem is some people will look from the outside and say “this core has failed under 4 coaches so it is 100% on them”.

Flames fans know they had Hartley who didn’t really sniff at a head coaching job before or after he was with the Flames and has been in the KHL since. Gulutzan was an assistant who had a failed run as head coach and has since been an assistant on a team that hasn’t made the playoffs since he joined them 3 years ago. Peters was a head coach for 4 years and missed the playoffs every year until he came to the Flames and he managed the team so poorly down the stretch they were completely unprepared for their first round. Now Ward who has been a long time assistant who seems in over his head and makes so many head scratching decisions.

This team has had 4 coaches but they have yet to have a really proven guy and it is no surprise the only guy who was a Stanley Cup winning head coach got the most out of this group (with quite easily the worst roster of all the years of this core group)