What?!? No. This is not how it works. I know below is dramatization but it's based on well researched book and I've heard other executives say things like this. Even Burke once mentioned some owners come in and say our budget depends on playoff gate so there are constraints.
This is just wrong. All of these critiques of Treliving are just emotional projections with silly assumptions and looking at things in a vacuum.
I think Treliving is extremely dilligent in this thought process - it can and does for any GM, not always work out. There is just hindsight complaints and I get it, there is frustration.
Not true. Team's GM is usually the highest level of hockey knowledge and is the person that sells "projections" to the team president and owners. In reality, they all discuss it together. That's when the GM makes the pitch. Who he makes it to, Pres or owners matter little, they all talk. This isn't Exxon where there are multiple VPs, EVPs before hitting the CEO and Pres and departmental budget processes to sift through and most importantly, there is no board of directors.
Enjoyed the movie clip, very cool.
As for emotional projections and silly assumptions, well, they are speculations and people's thoughts. Have an issue with thoughts and speculations on a message board? One way to fix that.
When we heard that Ward was getting hired as the full time coach I was taking my 12 year old son (huge Flames fan)to school. His comment was “well this isn’t going to be good”. My 12 year old could see it but Tre and the Mooyaks at 960 were fully on board. It couldn’t have been any other way after the asinine decisions in the Dallas series.
Last edited by Azhouse; 02-21-2021 at 05:37 PM.
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*disappointing Dallas series happens after 6 years of basically the same results*
Brad and co. - we just need a goalie, the skaters have it in them
Brad and co. - rattled when same group delivers more of the same
I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked!
End of the day I am sure there were deals being contemplated for Gaudreau and Monahan but nothing came through.
I approve of a 6x6 for Markstrom before going 7x7 for Hall.
I know you are joking but I am a little shocked how bad this team has been this year. The Dallas series did have the Flames seconds from going up 3-1 but Talbot couldn’t make that last save. They were also up 3-0 in game 6 before leaky goaltending allowed the stars to embarrass the team. This is all when one of their absolute best players was out with a concussion. Definitely not all on the goalies but going from a guy who is a tandem goalie to an elite number 1 was a smart upgrade.
It seems like Brad wanted to build the 'speed/skill' type of squad and has seemingly put a roster together that is built to do that, but then ####s it all up by hiring a coach who wants to coach the 'boards/cycling' type of hockey.
Problem is I think boach GG and Ward sold Tre a vision of 'speedy, fast transition' hockey - the type that Brad originally envisioned (I believe the words he used back in the day were 'fast, up-tempo, exciting').
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It seems like Brad wanted to build the 'speed/skill' type of squad and has seemingly put a roster together that is built to do that, but then ####s it all up by hiring a coach who wants to coach the 'boards/cycling' type of hockey.
Problem is I think boach GG and Ward sold Tre a vision of 'speedy, fast transition' hockey - the type that Brad originally envisioned (I believe the words he used back in the day were 'fast, up-tempo, exciting').
If that is the case it should be an easy choice for Brad to make a change.
I always thought Gulutzan talked about the short passes and 5 man unit that doesn’t promote rush scoring chances which is something this team did well on in their 2 best seasons under Treliving in 15 and 19
What an absolutely bad take. Treliving has crippled the development system with his trading of top picks. There is a reason why we have nothing to support our current roster from the minors, because Treliving didn't care about the organizational depth and only cared about trying to win now. He shortcut the rebuild and we are paying for it right now.
I’m actually ok with this. Go all in or go all out. Enough of this endless cycle of mediocrity. Put all your chips on the table and take your shot when it’s there. Had this team sucked just a little bit more in 2013 & 2014, maybe this team could have had a 1-2 punch up the middle with Mackinnon/Barkov & Draisaitl. Perennial Stanley Cup contenders right there. Instead we got Monahan and Bennett. That’s not a Cup winning duo. One can’t get it done in the regular season, the other can’t get it done in the playoffs.
Problem is I think boach GG and Ward sold Tre a vision of 'speedy, fast transition' hockey - the type that Brad originally envisioned (I believe the words he used back in the day were 'fast, up-tempo, exciting').
I feel like every coach or even GM says something similar. Almost to placate the masses.
Feels like a politician. Make promises to get the vote, don't follow through when you get into office. Just do what you want to do at that point.
I think the worst part of all of this is that when I look at how Johnny Gaudreau is playing this season and I connect the dots it seems hard to imagine that Treliving isn't going to be remembered as the guy that wasted the first (most affordable) half of Johnny Hockey's career.
We love to moan about how we haven’t been blessed with high picks, but when a player that good comes your way, you damn well better make the right moves to surround him with the talent he needs to win.
As fans we have been in dreamland if we think he is anything but the best player Flames have had since Iginla; all the fawning over Tkachuk is infuriating as he is a good player, but not yet at Johnny's level if he ever even gets there.
What a mess...
Treliving inherited a young team trending in the right direction and completely mismanaged it failing to find a quality goaltender or head coach. In year 7 he finally gets the goaltending part right only to offset it with a terrible head coach hire. The team is now trending in the wrong direction and I have to think the Gaudreau family is counting down the days until free agency so he can get out of this organization. Keith and Matt are probably doing the same thing. What player would want to spend their careers being coached by the Gulutzan's and Ward's of the world?
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End of the day I am sure there were deals being contemplated for Gaudreau and Monahan but nothing came through.
I approve of a 6x6 for Markstrom before going 7x7 for Hall.
I know you are joking but I am a little shocked how bad this team has been this year. The Dallas series did have the Flames seconds from going up 3-1 but Talbot couldn’t make that last save. They were also up 3-0 in game 6 before leaky goaltending allowed the stars to embarrass the team. This is all when one of their absolute best players was out with a concussion. Definitely not all on the goalies but going from a guy who is a tandem goalie to an elite number 1 was a smart upgrade.
So it took our GM 7 years to figure out a we needed a No. 1 goalie as opposed to tandem. Just brilliant.
After your team has such a disgraceful showing in their last 2 playoff games you think the GM would have a clue his team needs changes?
Tanev for Brodie, Simon, Nordstrom and Levio brought in. More great moves.
Add in his numerous Coaching disasters how does this guy keep his job?
Stevie Wonder can see this CORE and leadership group has no heart or desire and cannot get the job done.
Add the fact he never pulls the trigger on a trade and then it is leaked what players he was willing to trade but it did not work out.
Great guy who I would want to play for.
So it took our GM 7 years to figure out a we needed a No. 1 goalie as opposed to tandem. Just brilliant.
After your team has such a disgraceful showing in their last 2 playoff games you think the GM would have a clue his team needs changes?
Tanev for Brodie, Simon, Nordstrom and Levio brought in. More great moves.
Add in his numerous Coaching disasters how does this guy keep his job?
Stevie Wonder can see this CORE and leadership group has no heart or desire and cannot get the job done.
Add the fact he never pulls the trigger on a trade and then it is leaked what players he was willing to trade but it did not work out.
Great guy who I would want to play for.
Treliving knew we needed a #1 goalie right from the start and was always actively trying to acquire one. Sometimes it's easier said than done though.
Other GMs aren't going to just give you what you need for pennies on the dollar, and sometimes the player you want doesn't want you.
Just one example of this is Ben Bishop.
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So it took our GM 7 years to figure out a we needed a No. 1 goalie as opposed to tandem. Just brilliant.
After your team has such a disgraceful showing in their last 2 playoff games you think the GM would have a clue his team needs changes?
Tanev for Brodie, Simon, Nordstrom and Levio brought in. More great moves.
Add in his numerous Coaching disasters how does this guy keep his job?
Stevie Wonder can see this CORE and leadership group has no heart or desire and cannot get the job done.
Add the fact he never pulls the trigger on a trade and then it is leaked what players he was willing to trade but it did not work out.
Great guy who I would want to play for.
Complaints about coaching - OK. Failure to get a goalie before Markstrom - OK. Not liking Simon/Leivo/Nordstrom - OK.
Nothing else you said was correct, and your last point actually argues against itself.
This team is terrible and he is the GM.
So yes he is accountable and to blame.
I get you boys like the Flames, they are your team no matter what.
If he is not fired expect more of the same.
This team is terrible and he is the GM.
So yes he is accountable and to blame.
I get you boys like the Flames, they are your team no matter what.
If he is not fired expect more of the same.
Criticism is fine but:
A. He didn’t trade Brody for Tanev, and in any event Tanev is playing great and has improved Hanifin’s game.
B. He’s pulled the trigger on a couple major trades, and was prepared to trade Brodie but for a NTC exercise by Kadri (and that would have been a great trade).
There seems to be a lot of eye-rolling for folks levelling general and quite specific issues with coaching, and also a lot of nitpicky correcting folks about details. But what is the actual problem then?
Either
A. there is no problem.
B. The players, and by proxy the GM is/has been a problem
C. the Coaching is a problem.
D a combination, although agreeing that you can't really have "there's no problem" and any other answer.
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What an absolutely bad take. Treliving has crippled the development system with his trading of top picks. There is a reason why we have nothing to support our current roster from the minors, because Treliving didn't care about the organizational depth and only cared about trying to win now. He shortcut the rebuild and we are paying for it right now.
It’s simple man. Look at what the Flames had before for prospects and how few ever made the team. Under Treliving the number of home grown rookies that make the jump to the NHL is higher than I ever remember under Sutter or Peter Griffin (Feaster).
If you’re mad about a GM reaching the point of win now then I dunno what to tell you.
It’s simple man. Look at what the Flames had before for prospects and how few ever made the team. Under Treliving the number of home grown rookies that make the jump to the NHL is higher than I ever remember under Sutter or Peter Griffin (Feaster).
If you’re mad about a GM reaching the point of win now then I dunno what to tell you.
You said "he took a team with crappy depth, an empty prospect cupboard because of brutal drafting and a history of mediocre results and he’s been able to fix all of it" which is demonstrably false. The minor league system and prospect cupboard has not been this empty since Sutter did the exact same things in trying to win now. There has to be a balance between trying to win now and keeping the minor league system healthy to provide you that prospect depth when you need it. The Flames need more picks to rebuild the depth in the system because of the hole created by dealing away top picks.
You said "he took a team with crappy depth, an empty prospect cupboard because of brutal drafting and a history of mediocre results and he’s been able to fix all of it" which is demonstrably false. The minor league system and prospect cupboard has not been this empty since Sutter did the exact same things in trying to win now. There has to be a balance between trying to win now and keeping the minor league system healthy to provide you that prospect depth when you need it. The Flames need more picks to rebuild the depth in the system because of the hole created by dealing away top picks.
The prospect cupboard under Treliving had, but no longer includes Bennett, Valimaki, Dube, Andersson, Mangiapane or, I suppose Kylington. Gawdin and Mackey just played their first games.
When Treliving took over he had prospects such as Jankowski, Sven, Gillies, Wotherspoon, Poirier, and Klimchuk in the system.
