Brad Treliving needs to go

[GordonBlue]

Shouldn't you have to say Tre failed with goaltending? Took him to year 7 to finally get a good one. That cost the team over the years, especially come playoff time

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Not only Tippett but the Oilers have Ken Holland too. They will slowly get turned around as much as we like to mock them.

I don't think Holland is very good but he at least knows that hiring a decent head coach will make his job a lot easier which is something we can't say about Treliving.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think Holland is very good but he at least knows that hiring a decent head coach will make his job a lot easier which is something we can't say about Treliving.

Most important part of the job and Tre has failed at it.

Oilers should put a banner up for Tippett, I think he ruined a whole era of Flames hockey because he soured Treliving and Maloney on coaches who are real leaders.

[CroCop]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

Shouldn't you have to say Tre failed with goaltending? Took him to year 7 to finally get a good one. That cost the team over the years, especially come playoff time

Yep. Timing is everything and we finally acquire an Elite goalie for a group that peeked sometime around Apr 1,2019. Now it appears evident that the Flames need a major reconstruction just to became competitive again and will probably waste the best years of Markstroms contract before that happens. Cool.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think Holland is very good but he at least knows that hiring a decent head coach will make his job a lot easier which is something we can't say about Treliving.

Imagine if we had a veteran head coach who could actually provide player feedback to the GM. Instead we have a coach who bounces people between the top line and the AHL, or the top line and the taxi squad.

If effort truly the issue then you insert guys from the taxi squad who are willing to skate through a brick wall for their chance...see Buddy Robinson. Of course Ward is in love with guys like Leivo and Froese, so the other young guys only get a chance in a blowout. Again see Robinson.

To me this goes back to Geoff "please don't make a mistake" Ward not willing to risk a spot on less known guys, so he goes with useless vets instead.

I can fully see why this team doesn't play for him.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

Shouldn't you have to say Tre failed with goaltending? Took him to year 7 to finally get a good one. That cost the team over the years, especially come playoff time

7 years to get an elite goalie. We had horrible goaltending in one season (15/16) but for the rest of the seasons he has been GM this team had at least league average goaltending.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Imagine if we had a veteran head coach who could actually provide player feedback to the GM. Instead we have a coach who bounces people between the top line and the AHL, or the top line and the taxi squad.

If effort truly the issue then you insert guys from the taxi squad who are willing to skate through a brick wall for their chance...see Buddy Robinson. Of course Ward is in love with guys like Leivo and Froese, so the other young guys only get a chance in a blowout. Again see Robinson.

To me this goes back to Geoff "please don't make a mistake" Ward not willing to risk a spot on less known guys, so he goes with useless vets instead.

I can fully see why this team doesn't play for him.

Ward is not in love with Leivo, he’s been scratched many times.

He is in love with the underdogs like Froese and Robinson, cause he can relate to them.

Actually, I don’t think he’s even in love with them, I think he just likes to go on ego trips and mess with the players.

Play well one night, sit the next or get demoted to the 4th line. Players have no idea where they stand other than Bennett. They are all on eggshells and you can see it in their indecisive decisions on the ice.

[Toonage]

What Ward is in love with is the idea that #### will eventually stick to the wall and he can rotate whoever he wants on the wing of his top forward pairings

[Calgary4LIfe]

Darryl Sutter was an excellent GM that got this team turned around on and off the ice. He amputated that 'culture of losing' that was prevalent here in Calgary in those years. He got the owners to buy-into a lot of things on and off the ice. His trades were fantastic and every year this team got better and better. Of course it wasn't perfect, but it is hard to argue that he made Calgary worse... until the coaching disasters.


He stepped down to be a full-time GM. Playfair promoted. Playfair was not ready. That's strike one.


He hired Keenan, and Keenan had a very talented team for the most part. Keenan was, unfortunately, also semi-retired. That's strike two.


Then came in Brent Sutter. Atrocious coaching style - both from a systems point of view, as well as the culture I thought. Darryl tried to compensate by making a series of trades to restructure this team and make them more competitive, and better able to play under Brent's system. In the end, it was Darryl that ended up losing his job and his reputation. That was strike three, and he was out.


Treliving didn't want Hartley, that's fine. It wasn't justified from a performance issue (if it was, then Ward shouldn't have been extended 2 years). It was justified from a professional conduct standpoint, as well as simply the standpoint that a new GM gets to choose 'his guy'. I said when Hartley was terminated, that the clock officially started on Treliving. I really think he was 'off the clock' right up until then. I don't give him a strike for this. Rather, I use this as a 'starting point' for Treliving's era, so to speak. Up until this point, it was still very much Feaster's team, with not much of a stamp put on by Treliving.


So Treliving hires Gulutzan - that's strike 1. No need to disect this.


Next up is Peters. After seeing that Peters was going to be available, Treliving zero-ed in on this guy and ONLY this guy. It is probably fairly obvious that Treliving didn't do enough of a background check on him. Ownership thew out Darryl Sutter's name, but AFAIK, Peters was the only coach to even be considered by Treliving. No other interviews apparently were done. Well, that's strike 2.


Ward was the Associate coach on staff, and the obvious choice to be interim coach. Treliving decided not to conduct a coaching search, and just let Ward coach-out the season (which is fine, but Ward has never been an NHL head coach, and a core only has so many kicks at the can). Still, I don't give him a strike for this. This past off-season (after an 'up and down' showing against Dallas in which there were some questionable coaching decisions made), there was no rumours of Treliving conducting a coaching search. After management's analysis, they just decided that Ward was the right fit. That's not a strike yet - he is still the coach, and who knows, maybe he will turn it around. Maybe I will win the 65 million on Tuesday's Lotto Max too! I don't hold much hope for either of those two things to happen, however. This is almost strike 3.


It scares me to think what Treliving might have planned. I hope he sticks to his 'process'. Long term vision. No quick, knee-jerk moves in terms of trades. Stick to the process.


Darryl Sutter lost his job because he couldn't pick a damn coach.


Heck, Craig Button lost his job because he couldn't pick a damn coach either, and then one got picked for him.


Maybe Conroy should be picking the next coach? Just a thought. I think coaching is going to cost Treliving his job, much like I argue it cost Darryl Sutter's job (and Button's).



I also don't believe there is any restraints on this team by the ownership group when it comes to the price of coaching. If anyone really believes this, then they are just likely to believe the nonsense from Q-anon.



Murray Edwards and the rest of the ownership group are talented businessmen. Do you really believe that they don't see the value in management? Do you really believe they are that stupid?


Hartley was not a cheap coach relative to other coaches. He wasn't the most expensive coach in the league, but IIRC, he was fairly high on that pecking order of dollars.


This team just promoted Sigalet into a new management role, and brought in Labarbera to be the goaltending coach. That's additional costs in management.


It was one of the owners himself (no idea which) that wanted Darryl Sutter to be brought back - and I am sure he knows how much Darryl Sutter was making from LA.



This team has had plenty of coaches that were terrible over its' years here, and few that were even passable, and even fewer that were great. Sign me up for passable. Got any Dave Kings kicking around? I will gladly take him. Got any Pierre Page's? Give me one of those. Find me a Bob Hartley out there without THAT level of abrasiveness, and I will jump for joy.


I am not even asking for the best out there. Just hire a competent coach. Semi-competent at least.



If I am Treliving, I am going to get someone else to pick the coach, or I am going to put all the available names in a hat and pull out one of them. I would start feeling by now that I am just terrible at figuring out coaching staff.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

7 years to get an elite goalie. We had horrible goaltending in one season (15/16) but for the rest of the seasons he has been GM this team had at least league average goaltending.

I guess it depends on how you define average

In 16/17 Elliott was tied for the 21st best save percentage out of 29 goalies who played 42 games or more

In 17/18 we were definitely average with Smith being 14th out of 30 goalies who played 42 games or more

In 18/19 Rittich was 17th out of 29 goalies who played 42 games or more

Last year Rittich was 20th out of 30 goalies who played 35 games or more.

Most years we had below average goaltending in terms of save percentage.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Maybe Conroy should be picking the next coach? Just a thought. I think coaching is going to cost Treliving his job, much like I argue it cost Darryl Sutter's job (and Button's).

.

Fffff that idea. Conroy has plenty of culpability in the Gulutzan hire...unless you forgot the infamous grouse mountain story that was trotted out 1000s of times after thr hire. If GG had been a success, this was primed for Conroy to use GG to build his credibility for becoming a future GM.

I love our legend...but between Gelly and Conroy...we are starting to become Oileresque in our love of old players in management. If we are going down this road...proven leaders like Dave Lowry would be better choices and I still don't think that's a great idea.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Darryl Sutter was an excellent GM that got this team turned around on and off the ice. He amputated that 'culture of losing' that was prevalent here in Calgary in those years. He got the owners to buy-into a lot of things on and off the ice. His trades were fantastic and every year this team got better and better. Of course it wasn't perfect, but it is hard to argue that he made Calgary worse... until the coaching disasters.


He stepped down to be a full-time GM. Playfair promoted. Playfair was not ready. That's strike one.


He hired Keenan, and Keenan had a very talented team for the most part. Keenan was, unfortunately, also semi-retired. That's strike two.


Then came in Brent Sutter. Atrocious coaching style - both from a systems point of view, as well as the culture I thought. Darryl tried to compensate by making a series of trades to restructure this team and make them more competitive, and better able to play under Brent's system. In the end, it was Darryl that ended up losing his job and his reputation. That was strike three, and he was out.


Treliving didn't want Hartley, that's fine. It wasn't justified from a performance issue (if it was, then Ward shouldn't have been extended 2 years). It was justified from a professional conduct standpoint, as well as simply the standpoint that a new GM gets to choose 'his guy'. I said when Hartley was terminated, that the clock officially started on Treliving. I really think he was 'off the clock' right up until then. I don't give him a strike for this. Rather, I use this as a 'starting point' for Treliving's era, so to speak. Up until this point, it was still very much Feaster's team, with not much of a stamp put on by Treliving.


So Treliving hires Gulutzan - that's strike 1. No need to disect this.


Next up is Peters. After seeing that Peters was going to be available, Treliving zero-ed in on this guy and ONLY this guy. It is probably fairly obvious that Treliving didn't do enough of a background check on him. Ownership thew out Darryl Sutter's name, but AFAIK, Peters was the only coach to even be considered by Treliving. No other interviews apparently were done. Well, that's strike 2.


Ward was the Associate coach on staff, and the obvious choice to be interim coach. Treliving decided not to conduct a coaching search, and just let Ward coach-out the season (which is fine, but Ward has never been an NHL head coach, and a core only has so many kicks at the can). Still, I don't give him a strike for this. This past off-season (after an 'up and down' showing against Dallas in which there were some questionable coaching decisions made), there was no rumours of Treliving conducting a coaching search. After management's analysis, they just decided that Ward was the right fit. That's not a strike yet - he is still the coach, and who knows, maybe he will turn it around. Maybe I will win the 65 million on Tuesday's Lotto Max too! I don't hold much hope for either of those two things to happen, however. This is almost strike 3.


It scares me to think what Treliving might have planned. I hope he sticks to his 'process'. Long term vision. No quick, knee-jerk moves in terms of trades. Stick to the process.


Darryl Sutter lost his job because he couldn't pick a damn coach.


Heck, Craig Button lost his job because he couldn't pick a damn coach either, and then one got picked for him.


Maybe Conroy should be picking the next coach? Just a thought. I think coaching is going to cost Treliving his job, much like I argue it cost Darryl Sutter's job (and Button's).



I also don't believe there is any restraints on this team by the ownership group when it comes to the price of coaching. If anyone really believes this, then they are just likely to believe the nonsense from Q-anon.



Murray Edwards and the rest of the ownership group are talented businessmen. Do you really believe that they don't see the value in management? Do you really believe they are that stupid?


Hartley was not a cheap coach relative to other coaches. He wasn't the most expensive coach in the league, but IIRC, he was fairly high on that pecking order of dollars.


This team just promoted Sigalet into a new management role, and brought in Labarbera to be the goaltending coach. That's additional costs in management.


It was one of the owners himself (no idea which) that wanted Darryl Sutter to be brought back - and I am sure he knows how much Darryl Sutter was making from LA.



This team has had plenty of coaches that were terrible over its' years here, and few that were even passable, and even fewer that were great. Sign me up for passable. Got any Dave Kings kicking around? I will gladly take him. Got any Pierre Page's? Give me one of those. Find me a Bob Hartley out there without THAT level of abrasiveness, and I will jump for joy.


I am not even asking for the best out there. Just hire a competent coach. Semi-competent at least.



If I am Treliving, I am going to get someone else to pick the coach, or I am going to put all the available names in a hat and pull out one of them. I would start feeling by now that I am just terrible at figuring out coaching staff.

I fully agree it's not cost. I think it's Trelieving's ego that prevents a good coaching hire. Even Peters was his buddy from Hockey Canada. He wants someone who either can"t or won't challenge him.

Nothing in how the Flames player last year should have got Ward a 2 year contract.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Not only Tippett but the Oilers have Ken Holland too. They will slowly get turned around as much as we like to mock them.

What has Holland done? Sign Kassian

[Saqe]

Yeah let's not get carried away here, just because the Oilers beat a dysfunctional Flames team doesn't mean they're suddenly anything special.

[DazzlinDino]

If Treliving had been in the league as a GM for a number of years I could see him going offboard for a coaching hire, but coming from an assistant position to a GM and then hiring offboard is just a huge risk to take. All the little dominos that have followed from that first coaching hire have us right where we started with a team still spinning it's wheels.

A proper coach would have told Treliving what types of players he needed, and more importantly established a solid team identity. This team does not have an identity in terms of style of play, except a brand that is slow and certainly not very entertaining. The team is poorly constructed, neither fast, nor big, or overly skilled. Even worse the top line still lacks a RW that can help bring consistency; Which is conductive to winning. I get that the Flames management wants to create balance throughout the line-up but
you still need a top line that sets the tone. A top line that is capable and able to win tough playoff matches. How many years have passed and we are still filling the top line with another plug? How can the Flames have any consistency if the players put there have little or no experience in the NHL or with the level skill and responsibilities associated on the top line?

Treliving must be in a very hard place because he probably can't ask ownership for another coaching hire. It is a bit of tunnel vision when you hitch yourself to your own surroundings and experiences. The familiarity with Wand in his own building was a shortsighted reason to hire him. He should gone out and looked for someone who had a winning pedigree and had proven track record to get more out of the players.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

I fully agree it's not cost. I think it's Trelieving's ego that prevents a good coaching hire. Even Peters was his buddy from Hockey Canada. He wants someone who either can"t or won't challenge him.

Nothing in how the Flames player last year should have got Ward a 2 year contract.

Yeah this is a solid argument. Calgary4LIfe's post was really good.

Flames owners don't skimp on the C-Suite at their companies. It's weird to think that they would then cheap out on the management of a trophy asset like the Flames.

It seems more likely that Tre hired people that are 'just happy to be here' and are loyal to him without challenging too much.

In contrast, great manager always try to hire people that are smarter than them.

This is a good short season to tank. Plus we probably get another high pick next year as the rebuild starts/continues.

Fire Tre and Ward, run out the season with assistants and open up the style of play so players can have fun (this group has looked miserable since purple gatorade stopped) get their confidence back (and pad their stats) and then once you have your new GM make lots of foundational deals at the deadline and draft.

I'm game for another rebuild.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Yeah let's not get carried away here, just because the Oilers beat a dysfunctional Flames team doesn't mean they're suddenly anything special.

I think that’s the point being made.

We’re worse than the absolute gong show of incompetence up North.

That’s some kinda special.

[NewFan]

May be he is hiring a coach who follows his words about line ups, or player play times or type of system? If he hires the big coaches they won't follow his instructions.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

Shouldn't you have to say Tre failed with goaltending? Took him to year 7 to finally get a good one. That cost the team over the years, especially come playoff time

And isn't able to get a competent backup, leading to the burning out of that successful asset he did acquire.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by NewFan

May be he is hiring a coach who follows his words about line ups, or player play times or type of system? If he hires the big coaches they won't follow his instructions.

Yeah, that seems to be the picture that is forming.