Brad Treliving needs to go

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Also if you are satisfied, take a step back and ask yourself even if we make the playoffs, which team can we beat even at our best? Toronto? Winnipeg? Montreal? Edmonton?


I doubt we can beat any of them. May not even Vancouver.

Who said I'm satisfied? Have you read any of my posts in this thread?

All I said was I don't think the roster is that big of an issue. Could it be improved? Absolutely. But I don't see how you can look just at the roster and scream for the GM's head based on that alone

The biggest issue is how they're playing. We've seen this core play well, and it's when they're being coached to their strengths

[Royle9]

The GM is responsible for the carousel of terrible coaching hires so yea he has big skin in the game.

Brad chose to keep Ward, and as a result look where we are.
Honestly at this point I’d expect both to resign, how they can look each other in the face and think “this is fine, trust the process” is pure insanity.

Wards to blame but that was Brads guy so they both have to go.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Who said I'm satisfied? Have you read any of my posts in this thread?

All I said was I don't think the roster is that big of an issue. Could it be improved? Absolutely. But I don't see how you can look just at the roster and scream for the GM's head based on that alone

The biggest issue is how they're playing. We've seen this core play well, and it's when they're being coached to their strengths

A coach can only do so much

Yes a new coach can get them going short term but team is flawed

I still don’t see them beat any of the other playoffs teams

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think Backlund is the 53rd highest paid centre in league so he is paid as a second line player

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/position...rd/active-cap/

This site has him as the 90th highest paid forward and the 47th highest paid center.

Of course at center they have the following players above him listed as a center - Stamkos, Hayes, Nylander, Nugent-Hopkins, Guentzel, Forsberg and Teraivainen listed as centers who do not regularly play center (there may be others, those ones caught my eye) so he is the 40th highest paid center.

Paid like an elite second line center (top third of the league).

The issue in my mind is not that Backlund (or most of the lineup) is overpaid. One could make a credible argument that he is the 40th best center in the league. I would place him lower than that, but I could accept an argument that he is the 40th best center in hockey. But there is almost no player on the roster that outperforms their contract with the sole exception of Lindholm. They perform at or below their contract (most performing below in my opinion) leading to a mediocre team that is about the 15th to 20th best team in the league.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

A coach can only do so much

Yes a new coach can get them going short term but team is flawed

I still don’t see them beat any of the other playoffs teams

A coach can do a lot more than you're giving credit

It's not just the players deciding to transition the puck slowly and let the opposite team get set up and forcheck. It's not just the players that dump the puck in with nobody to retrieve it. That's the players playing the system they're told to by the coach. The one they work on every practice.

If they're playing like that, it doesn't matter who is on the team. You could have Crosby and Yzerman, but you get them playing like that, they're not going to do much for you. Granted the difference is Crosby and Yzerman would tell the coach to piss off

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Who said I'm satisfied? Have you read any of my posts in this thread?

All I said was I don't think the roster is that big of an issue. Could it be improved? Absolutely. But I don't see how you can look just at the roster and scream for the GM's head based on that alone

The biggest issue is how they're playing. We've seen this core play well, and it's when they're being coached to their strengths

I don’t think the roster is a world beater, but apart from a wrong signing or a bad trade here or there, which all GMs have, it’s hard to point out how it would be different.

Coaching hires, sure. But under him, the Flames have had 4 markedly different coaches, with varying degrees of head coach experience (only Ward had none and he has almost 25 years of AC). And each and every coach has had this team tune him out. That includes Hartley. That includes Peters.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t think the roster is a world beater, but apart from a wrong signing or a bad trade here or there, which all GMs have, it’s hard to point out how it would be different.

Coaching hires, sure. But under him, the Flames have had 4 markedly different coaches, with varying degrees of head coach experience (only Ward had none and he has almost 25 years of AC). And each and every coach has had this team tune him out. That includes Hartley. That includes Peters.

Excluding Hartley and half a year of Peters, all those coaches ended up getting the team to play the same way. Which has me questioning if that's a management decision.

It's been infuriating to watch. I'm not a huge Tippett fan but he at least knows the things that make McDavid click in the o-zone, you don't slow him down and force him into a system, you just let him go.

Yet here, we're slowing down our top guys. I can't stand it

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by btimbit

A coach can do a lot more than you're giving credit

It's not just the players deciding to transition the puck slowly and let the opposite team get set up and forcheck. It's not just the players that dump the puck in with nobody to retrieve it. That's the players playing the system they're told to by the coach. The one they work on every practice.

If they're playing like that, it doesn't matter who is on the team. You could have Crosby and Yzerman, but you get them playing like that, they're not going to do much for you. Granted the difference is Crosby and Yzerman would tell the coach to piss off

I agreed in general

Ward has to go, I am sure they will be better

I am not sure if it’s enough

[Huntingwhale]

I am as big a BT fan as there is on this site. But for me it is:

Long-term success of the team > Being a fan of the GM

The coaching decisions have been putrid. At first he looked like he succeeded after Peters' first season. But turns out he hired a...well we all know what he was. I was open to Ward to start this season, but that has turned into an unmitigated disaster. Especially with proven coaches on the sidelines.

I want BT to succeed here. I truly do. But after barely any regular season success other than a blip on the radar 2 seasons ago and even less playoff success since '04, this here Flames fan wants to start seeing a successful team every season. If that means a new GM, than so be it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by btimbit

A coach can do a lot more than you're giving credit

It's not just the players deciding to transition the puck slowly and let the opposite team get set up and forcheck. It's not just the players that dump the puck in with nobody to retrieve it. That's the players playing the system they're told to by the coach. The one they work on every practice.

If they're playing like that, it doesn't matter who is on the team. You could have Crosby and Yzerman, but you get them playing like that, they're not going to do much for you. Granted the difference is Crosby and Yzerman would tell the coach to piss off

No one tells players to dump in and not try to retrieve. I guarantee that’s not what Ward coaches. And if you actually watch them play, the transitions they’ve been trying are fast up ice passes. The D to D thing is a myth.

Where Ward has failed is getting them to do those things properly. Johnny still insists on carrying into traffic and getting funnelled. Bennett, who’s a decent dump and chase player, dangles into the middle of the ice. And when they do dump, they don’t support. So I think Ward’s problem is the opposite of players doing what he’s preaching. It’s players not doing what he says. Which is still a Ward problem.

But it’s also been a Hartley problem, a Gulutzen problem and a Peters problem.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/position...rd/active-cap/

This site has him as the 90th highest paid forward and the 47th highest paid center.

Of course at center they have the following players above him listed as a center - Stamkos, Hayes, Nylander, Nugent-Hopkins, Guentzel, Forsberg and Teraivainen listed as centers who do not regularly play center (there may be others, those ones caught my eye) so he is the 40th highest paid center.

Paid like an elite second line center (top third of the league).

Back to your original point, Backlund being paid as a top line C. Show me a team with a 1C who is making 5.35, and I’ll show you a bottom 5 team in the league.

[EVERLAST]

What's weird is the following.

Not just Treliving having difficulty bringing in a reputable coach.

Rumors (are they?) Coaches not wanting to come here and top end players for that matter.

How many no name brand coaches weve had and HOW surprised some not all of us are at the results.

If you read a resume of a Flames player and saw how many managers they've had in the last 10 years but NEVER questioned WHY there's no success.....hmm.

We at CalgaryPuck want answers ! Bwhahaha ha ha ha.

Oh boy. This happens yearly....circle the date on your calendars and see you in a year. We get to revisit revisit the past, reminiscing over ________

Weird how short my memory is and how I keep coming back .

Maybe its US not them . Boy were a demanding bunch.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Excluding Hartley and half a year of Peters, all those coaches ended up getting the team to play the same way. Which has me questioning if that's a management decision.

It's been infuriating to watch. I'm not a huge Tippett fan but he at least knows the things that make McDavid click in the o-zone, you don't slow him down and force him into a system, you just let him go.

Yet here, we're slowing down our top guys. I can't stand it

I dunno: Gulutzen was certainly a hire based on how he described the game. But so was Peters and his game was quite different. Ward was hired because he was there and seemingly pulled the tram together and saved the team from missing the playoffs (which is where they were headed even though that wasn’t the reason Peters was fired). But Peters was Treliving’s hire based on their supposed long conversations and it strikes me that proves there’s not a “management way” of playing.

I don’t think Ward is a good NHL coach compared to most of his competitors. He’s better than me. So, sure, fire him, hire someone else. I’m just not sure that equals a long term change in outcome for the team.

[Burning Beard]

If Ward is still here next week Treliving needs to be gone with him. How he can watch this putrid team and not make the change is beyond me. Embarrassing.

[Hackey]

Hopefully they hire a big name coach so this theory can finally be put to bed. We don't have the players to be elite and no coach is going to change that.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Unproven hypothesis about the ownership group:
Having worked with some Oil and Gas executives (not directly but as a vendor to them) there was a pattern where they would spend money on anything to get the oil/gas out of the ground. But if it wasn't directly about that - they were tight on money.

If that approach was applied to the team - I can see the owners being willing to spend to the cap on players, but not pay up on areas such as coaching. Because the players are the equivalent to "getting oil out of the ground".

Not saying that's the right approach but it possibly explains the disconnect between the owners spending on players but not (in theory) on other areas such as coaching.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Hopefully they hire a big name coach so this theory can finally be put to bed. We don't have the players to be elite and no coach is going to change that.

Yet somehow the oilers are doing more with less.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Yet somehow the oilers are doing more with less.

Two of the top four players in the league, and a coach that coaches to that strength.

It’s amazing that while they’ve continued to be managed incompetently from a roster perspective, they’re still a way better team that the garbage Treliving has spent 7 years crafting.

[Northendzone]

If ward flunks out as a coach, then I feel like tre has got to go. How many coaches does he have to go thru

[Jiri Hrdina]

I mean the only reason the Oilers are even average is Mcdavid. Take Connor and put him on the Flames and does that make Brad a better GM?