It is actually hilarious to look at this lineup and suggest that we blow it up. The answers are in the room. They really are. The forward mix is fine. The defensive mix is fine. The goaltending mix is more than fine. The problem is we have bozos running the show.
How ####ing hard is it to look at the lineup cards of the past and see where successes have been? This isn't rocket science. Go back and put together a lineup based on previous successes and run those lines and pairs. Don't overthink it. Don't try and make guys play roles they are not suited to. This is an automatic thing.
Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm was one of the best lines in the NHL and terrorized teams for the better part of a season, before it got tinkered with by someone believing playoff hockey had to be different from the dominating style the team employed. Go back and let these guys play their up tempo high speed attack game and success will follow.
Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangipane was a great second line, bordering on a first line. Again, why mess with success? Because you have to prove you're the smartest guy in the room? Terry Crisp was a great coach because he came in, put together a system that worked for the talent in the room, filled out the lineup card, kicked the guys in the ass when they needed it, and then stay the hell out of the way. Only when things was going sideways did he step in and tinker, and only to counter what was happening in the game. Beyond that he knew his team was the best in the league and he let them play. We need someone that can do just that and let guys that play well toegther, stay together and garner success.
Lucic-Bennett-Dube was dominant in the play-in and post season. As much as I dislike Bennett and what he brings t the table, this was an effective line. If we're going to sit on Bennett, play him with guys where he has had success. Let these guys play together and hopefully they rekindle what they had.
That's the make up of your forward lines. The 4th line is for role players and get spot duty except for special teams and such. Defensively we know what pairings have worked this year. Stick with them. Goaltending is fixed.
Now, just get the hell out of the way and let these guys play to their strengths. No more stupid moving the puck backwards to organize. Move the puck forward and toward the oppositions net at all times. First guy that makes a pass back into their own zone except for a line change get's taken out behind the Saddledome and gets a paddlin'. Up tempo high speed transition game. Entertaining hockey or GTFO!!!
Figured this was relative to the thread. A good rant from Rhett on today's morning show
Totally agree with Rhett. It was never more evident than the loss 3 games ago in Vancouver. Normal teams with a healthy vibe in the room do not play like that.
You can tell there are players not on the same page and don't play for each other. On a good team, a player will feel shame for letting his peers down, but the give a crap meter is about 1/10 for too many players on this team. Lindholm, Backlund, and Markstrom are the only players that I think for sure are not in that group. I will give the benefit of the doubt to Dube, Mangi, Andersson, and Valimaki. Everyone else, I don't know but really have my doubts about some of them, including the captain.
I think Tkachuk stopped caring after he was called out. His is like, screw these guys.
I am not saying blow it up completely, but there needs to be some substantial turnover to change the room.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
There is no way they are blowing it up. It's a pretty ridiculous and short-sighted notion when the core is almost all between 23 and 27.
The age is one thing but the contracts are another thing.
In 2 seasons, the only forwards currently under contract are (monahan, Lindholm, backlund, lucic). Will they invest long term to keep gaudreau and/or tkachuk?
I don't know what the d core looks like 2 years from now? Tanev looks great now, hopefully he can keep that up, but is it a sure thing to assume any of Andersson, Hanafin, or valimaki evolve into top pairing guys? Who knows....
So, at this point I don't know what the core top end talent will be, heck by this offseason, where gaudreau and tkachuk head into their ufa/rfa contract years, respectively.
The age is one thing but the contracts are another thing.
In 2 seasons, the only forwards currently under contract are (monahan, Lindholm, backlund, lucic). Will they invest long term to keep gaudreau and/or tkachuk?
I don't know what the d core looks like 2 years from now? Tanev looks great now, hopefully he can keep that up, but is it a sure thing to assume any of Andersson, Hanafin, or valimaki evolve into top pairing guys? Who knows....
So, at this point I don't know what the core top end talent will be, heck by this offseason, where gaudreau and tkachuk head into their ufa/rfa contract years, respectively.
If you look at the roster in terms of contracts and the age of players, this team is closer to being a consistent lottery team than it is a contender. The team is trending down not up.
Tkachuk went after Edler in that loss in VAN for his dirty hits earlier. That doesn't say he's quit to me.
He also got in the scrum defending Mangiapane the following game.
I don't think he quit either, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are not friends like they were before. Total dick move by whoever the team mates were that said that. We need more of what Tkachuk does, not less.
I get the sense that the Flames are not regarded as a hard team to play against. No opposing team goes in looking over their shoulder for any Flame except for Tkachuk. Then his team mates tell him to knock it off? Do they want to win or not? I am sure Tkachuk wants to win and will actually do what it takes.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 02-19-2021 at 12:50 PM.
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“We’ve been a very inconsistent team that is not getting top performance throughout our group. We’ve had inconsistent play from, I would say, the majority of our players.”
We’ve had inconsistent performance from our management team. Treliving should worry about the #### he’s done and not point fingers at players in any shape or form. When you trade for Milan Lucic, STFU.
We’ve had inconsistent performance from our management team. Treliving should worry about the #### Jon he’s done and not point fingers at players in any shape or form. When you trade for Milan Lucic, STFU.
If you’re making a list of this team’s problems, does Milan Lucic even crack the top 20?
__________________ ”All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.”
Rowan Roy W-M - February 15, 2024
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We’ve had inconsistent performance from our management team. Treliving should worry about the #### he’s done and not point fingers at players in any shape or form. When you trade for Milan Lucic, STFU.
If you’re making a list of this team’s problems, does Milan Lucic even crack the top 20?
Yes. The signing if Neal was a massive #### up, which brought us Lucic. That decision alone would get someone in my industry #### canned. Trading a crap contract for another immovable contract would get you blackballed.
That 2018 summer could have, should have, would have been a game changer. Treliving made the real solid trade with the Canes, but he missed the boat on Ryan O'Reilly.
Then to make things worse he went and signed Neal. I fully admit I was happy about the Neal signing, but I was pissed he missed ROR, and if he trades for ROR, he isn't signing Neal.
But that's this organization for you. No matter who is running it, they always manage to do just enough, and miss out on just enough, to remain consistently mediocre.
Yes. The signing if Neal was a massive #### up, which brought us Lucic. That decision alone would get someone in my industry #### canned. Trading a crap contract for another immovable contract would get you blackballed.
Treliving signed a 25 goal scorer. No one knew he'd turn into an absolute #### bag. Everyone was celebrating that signing. Hindsight is 20/20 i guess!
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Yes. The signing if Neal was a massive #### up, which brought us Lucic. That decision alone would get someone in my industry #### canned. Trading a crap contract for another immovable contract would get you blackballed.
The mistake was signing Neal.
Trading for Lucic has proved to be net positive across a few dimensions.
He gets a big X for the Neal decision.
He gets a bit of a credit back for the Lucic one.
Net: The entirety of it still not good. But I don't think he Lucic trade in and of itself is a x against him. He made a really bad situation slightly less bad.
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Treliving signed a 25 goal scorer. No one knew he'd turn into an absolute #### bag. Everyone was celebrating that signing. Hindsight is 20/20 i guess!
True but this is why you have pro scouts and analytics.
Who supported the signing and who advised it against it?
If they all supported it - points to bad scouting and analytics
If they didn't support it and the GM did it anyway - that's on Tree.
The argument for signing Neal was that indeed he was a consistent 20 goal guy.
But one would expect those paid to do this job - would go deeper than that.
I don't think Tree should be fired for it - but the Neal signing was his single worst move as GM and did damage to his ability to build a contender. No question.
Last edited by Jiri Hrdina; 02-19-2021 at 06:57 PM.
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True but this is why you have pro scouts and analytics.
Who supported the signing and who advised it against it?
If they all supported it - points to bad scouting and analytics
If they didn't support it and the GM did it anyway - that's on Tree.
The argument for signing Neal was that indeed he was a consistent 20 goal guy.
But one would expect those paid to do this job - would go deeper than that.
I don't think Tree should be fired for it - but the Neal signing was his signal worst move as GM and did damage to his ability to build a contender. No question.
I disagree with this take. Easily his worst move as GM was trading a 1st and 2 2nds for Hamonic. It weakened their asset base when they were in a spot to contend in 2019 and Hamonic turned Brodie into a whipping boy and made Hanifin expendable to many this offseason.
In hindsight the Neal signing was a poor one no doubt and easily his worst free agent signing. That is a challenge of being GM of an undesirable market. I was of a sound belief the team needed another top 6 scorer that offseason. Lindholm was an upgrade on the outgoing Ferland but that 2018 Flames team really needed a top 6 forward. With the Hamonic trade bleeding the organization of trade assets Treliving went out to the market and got the highest rated UFA left. I remember Neal rumored to be looking for 6x6 so I was happy we got one less year and under 6 without any trade restrictions.
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Could be all of those, signing neal, brouwer, hamonic trade, Lazar trade, poor coaching hires.
He's done some great things too. Hamilton trade, both getting him and then trading him out. The rfa deals have been solid.
It's been a long enough time, he was hired in the last year or so of building around the flames rebuild cycle he was hired into early on. In my mind, the roster may be marginally better, but the on ice results are about the same, even 5+ years later.
Treliving signed a 25 goal scorer. No one knew he'd turn into an absolute #### bag. Everyone was celebrating that signing. Hindsight is 20/20 i guess!
If you have a chance to go back and review the threads, not everyone was celebrating the Neal signing. That was just after he made the same mistake with Brouwer. Trev's 2nd mistake was not signing them to show me contracts so he could see what he had.
Those two moves pushed the rebuild ahead while neither player plays for the Flames,
