The Deal With Geoff Ward

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I really wish Treliving would just bring Boudreau in as coach.

People say his records were only good in Washington and Anaheim because those teams were good.

So, he can coach good teams to good records you say?

Sounds like a great way to find out if this Flames roster is actually any good or not. If a proven coach with a record of coaching good NHL teams to good records can't get this team to do anything, then you know the team needs a massive overhaul.

Holy chit what a concept!!!! Quick someone tell Tre!!

[JohnnyB]

If the current Flames roster played with the daily level of commitment and effort of Sutter teams, they would be a really competitive team.

Also, I miss Sutter post game interviews.

[868904]

Originally Posted by cross16

I have a lot of respect for Sutter as a coach but I also think those LA Kings were tailor made for Darryl Sutter hockey. When those players started to age out, their results plummeted with it.

Not sure it parallels well with how the Flames are built, nor do I think he'd get the results.

Heard this argument before. Darryl went out and acquired guys like Tanguay, Huselius, Cammalleri. Gaudreau will be fine with Darryl and Darryl will be fine with Gaudreau.

Yes Darryl has a shelf life, like all coaches, but this team only has a short window now anyways. It's a perfect match.

Before you blow this team up, try a good veteran coach.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by cross16

I have a lot of respect for Sutter as a coach but I also think those LA Kings were tailor made for Darryl Sutter hockey. When those players started to age out, their results plummeted with it.

Not sure it parallels well with how the Flames are built, nor do I think he'd get the results.

His last year they finished just out of the POs (beaten by the Flames) but only one year before that his team had a .622 winning percentage. That team was a little older than Calgary’s but really didn’t have elite scoring (Kopitar led with 74 points). They had great D with Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez and McNabb, good two way play in Kopitar, a 30 goal guy/dick in Carter. A disturber in Brown. Some decent mid range guys in Toffoli, Pearson, Lucic, aging Gaborik. And a great goalie in Quick.

I think that team is closer to the Flames than a lot of people who think Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Lindholm are a class higher than they really are.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I really wish Treliving would just bring Boudreau in as coach.

People say his records were only good in Washington and Anaheim because those teams were good.

So, he can coach good teams to good records you say?

Sounds like a great way to find out if this Flames roster is actually any good or not. If a proven coach with a record of coaching good NHL teams to good records can't get this team to do anything, then you know the team needs a massive overhaul.

Agree. Boudreau has an insane win percentage with several different teams over a large number of years.
One of the most consistent coaches overall.

He hasn't won a cup, but he has been past the first round many times and he has won an AHL championship. His teams usually win the division.
Minnesota's roster was awful, yet he still got them to the playoffs.

Plus he's a bit of a jerk. It's what the Flames need. He has the record of success to justify his jerkiness. His teams have also developed a lot of goaltenders for whatever reason.

Of course I would be happy with Sutter, Gallant, and others.

But Boudreau makes a ton of sense.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by New Era

Those tweets are from 2018. A lot has changed since then, especially the game. Sutter would be a bad choice.

There is so much wrong with this statement:


1) 2018 - less than 3 years ago? Has hockey changed that much in 3 years? Elaborate on these huge changes. It is 2018, not 1918.


2) As others have pointed out, this is exactly the same sentiment that fans and analysts around the NHL said about Darryl being hired in LA... and then he wins 2 cups. Completely turned that under-performing team around nearly overnight, and saved the GM's job.


3) Based on what I have seen, Darryl is exactly the right coach for this team. What makes you think otherwise? What is this team's biggest issues? I would say it is giving a full effort for 60 minutes - something that Darryl's teams are famous for, at the very least in his first few years on the team. What is another thing that Darryl's teams are famous for? Defensive play - another huge issue on this team even though this team has had iteration after iteration of having one of the NHL's most talented back-ends.



I also still remember Sutter breaking down what was wrong with the Flames years ago when he did a short analyst gig on TSN (or Sportsnet - I don't remember actually). It was under Gulutzan's era. He specifically stated that Calgary has changed their transition to be slower, and that in today's game, every team has a fast transition, and if you don't, you are in trouble. So before you say that Darryl would turn this team into a plodding grind-it-out team, he won't. He wants fast break-outs.


Now, in the Covid world, maybe he doesn't want to coach any longer. Maybe he is now officially (quietly?) retired? I don't know. I just can't think of any BETTER options out there. None that are available. He would get this team playing hard, figure out why they are a defensive mess that requires Markstrom to make athletic save after safe (I will hate to see this team if he wears out), and seemingly unable to defend properly. On top of this, they transition like molasses more often than not.


Maybe Sutter isn't the right coach. Maybe the team is bad. I would love to try Sutter for the rest of the season before making huge moves in the off-season.

[Burning Beard]

This is the mind blowing part to me. If I was GM and fighting for my job I would in no way leave my fate in Wards hands.

First I would swallow my pride and call the owners and tell them Ward isn't working. Next I would call Sutter and beg him to come fix this mess.

Sometimes as a GM you need to be bold and make bold decisions. Treliving likes to go slow but dang man can't you see what's happening?

[Cambardi]

What if the case were that coaches we want don’t want to come here? Or if we have a cap limit for how much we’re willing to pay a coach?

[taxbuster]

Ha ha was just listening to Francis with Rintoul and he said "Geoff Ward's not going anywhere" primarily because of money - Flames will lose money this year and aren't going to spend more to bring in a coach.

If true, that's an indictment of expat Murray Edwards, pure and simple. Lousy owner = lousy team.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

There is so much wrong with this statement:


1) 2018 - less than 3 years ago? Has hockey changed that much in 3 years? Elaborate on these huge changes. It is 2018, not 1918.


2) As others have pointed out, this is exactly the same sentiment that fans and analysts around the NHL said about Darryl being hired in LA... and then he wins 2 cups. Completely turned that under-performing team around nearly overnight, and saved the GM's job.


3) Based on what I have seen, Darryl is exactly the right coach for this team. What makes you think otherwise? What is this team's biggest issues? I would say it is giving a full effort for 60 minutes - something that Darryl's teams are famous for, at the very least in his first few years on the team. What is another thing that Darryl's teams are famous for? Defensive play - another huge issue on this team even though this team has had iteration after iteration of having one of the NHL's most talented back-ends.



I also still remember Sutter breaking down what was wrong with the Flames years ago when he did a short analyst gig on TSN (or Sportsnet - I don't remember actually). It was under Gulutzan's era. He specifically stated that Calgary has changed their transition to be slower, and that in today's game, every team has a fast transition, and if you don't, you are in trouble. So before you say that Darryl would turn this team into a plodding grind-it-out team, he won't. He wants fast break-outs.


Now, in the Covid world, maybe he doesn't want to coach any longer. Maybe he is now officially (quietly?) retired? I don't know. I just can't think of any BETTER options out there. None that are available. He would get this team playing hard, figure out why they are a defensive mess that requires Markstrom to make athletic save after safe (I will hate to see this team if he wears out), and seemingly unable to defend properly. On top of this, they transition like molasses more often than not.


Maybe Sutter isn't the right coach. Maybe the team is bad. I would love to try Sutter for the rest of the season before making huge moves in the off-season.

What makes me sad as a fan is if we don't make any changes we may see a lot of the current players moved out. What happens if the next group has the same issues... Could very well happen and we would be sitting here in another 7 years wondering how the heck it happened!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Agree. Boudreau has an insane win percentage with several different teams over a large number of years.
One of the most consistent coaches overall.

He hasn't won a cup, but he has been past the first round many times and he has won an AHL championship. His teams usually win the division.
Minnesota's roster was awful, yet he still got them to the playoffs.

Plus he's a bit of a jerk. It's what the Flames need. He has the record of success to justify his jerkiness. His teams have also developed a lot of goaltenders for whatever reason.

Of course I would be happy with Sutter, Gallant, and others.

But Boudreau makes a ton of sense.

Boudreau isn’t a bit of a jerk, at least not to his players. He’s a players coach. He tried once to be a disciplinarian in Washington and it got him fired because it just wasn’t him.

But his record is good. I wouldn’t mind giving him a shot. He did say when he was hired in Minnie in 2016 that it was his last gig and he’s now 66, at a time when coaches now seem to be getting younger. I seem to recall some reporting saying he was willing to coach in Calgary but I can’t recall for sure.

[Toonage]

Boudreau has been on NHL Network radio a fair bit and has said on more than one occasion he'd love to get back to coaching as soon as possible but understands that might not be in the cards this year.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Agree. Boudreau has an insane win percentage with several different teams over a large number of years.
One of the most consistent coaches overall.

He hasn't won a cup, but he has been past the first round many times and he has won an AHL championship. His teams usually win the division.
Minnesota's roster was awful, yet he still got them to the playoffs.

Plus he's a bit of a jerk. It's what the Flames need. He has the record of success to justify his jerkiness. His teams have also developed a lot of goaltenders for whatever reason.

Of course I would be happy with Sutter, Gallant, and others.

But Boudreau makes a ton of sense.

Honestly the work ethic of that Mini team really stood out any time they played the Flames. They really played hard any time they came to town I thought.

[flambers]

If a move is required.

This time it has to be the GM, hire a new GM and let that person make a decision on the Coaching staff.

However that type of a move would be in the offseason.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

What makes me sad as a fan is if we don't make any changes we may see a lot of the current players moved out. What happens if the next group has the same issues... Could very well happen and we would be sitting here in another 7 years wondering how the heck it happened!

If its this much fun for the fans I can imagine what its like for the players. I think more will be looking for the quickest way out unless things change. If you look at HF (not saying it directly correlates with what players think) the Flames rep as an org is not much better than the Oilers and maybe like 2 notchs above Buffalo and = to Minni.

[FlamesAddiction]

My impression of Boudreau was way off. I didn't realize he had so much fury.

I don't hate Ward, but I wonder if he has been the "good-cop" assistant coach for so long, that he just can't bring himself to chastise his players. And there is nothing wrong with that, I think every team needs that player-friendly assistant that players can go to vent or for reassurance. But that isn't always the best quality for a head coach.

Lot's of f-bombs:

NSFW!

That was more than a decade ago though. All the Youtube videos I saw of Boudreau getting angry were pretty old. I wonder if he still has it. Iron Mike wasn't so "iron" when he was near the end.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by 868904

Heard this argument before. Darryl went out and acquired guys like Tanguay, Huselius, Cammalleri. Gaudreau will be fine with Darryl and Darryl will be fine with Gaudreau.

Yes Darryl has a shelf life, like all coaches, but this team only has a short window now anyways. It's a perfect match.

Before you blow this team up, try a good veteran coach.

Acquiring those players and coaching them are two different things. I'm not advocating the argument Darryl doesn't like skill, I think that's bogus but I don't think his style is a good match for how this team is built and not just because of Gaudreau. We are seeing it now with Ward trying to play a dump and chase/heavy forecheck game. What's Sutter going to do differently?

I'm all for a veteran coach I just don't think Sutter makes sense.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Psytic

If its this much fun for the fans I can imagine what its like for the players. I think more will be looking for the quickest way out unless things change. If you look at HF (not saying it directly correlates with what players think) the Flames rep as an org is not much better than the Oilers and maybe like 2 notchs above Buffalo and = to Minni.

I doubt we see a rebuild but may see a retool. Still if the guys in management are running the same bus we may see the same results. A lot of people have put some blame on the core (and rightly so), but what if we trade out the core and still have the same issues... We have traded out a lot of players but still plagued by inconsistency,

[dino7c]

there are 5 or less consistent teams in the league

There are 3 points between 6th and 2nd in the Div

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by dino7c

there are 5 or less consistent teams in the league

There are 3 points between 6th and 2nd in the Div

Yeah, why should the Flames ever be one of those 5 or less consistent teams though right?