[GDT] Canucks @ Flames, 8:00 PM MT (Sportsnet 1/Sportsnet Pacific / Fan 960)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Actual goal splits ...

Bennett 3-1
Simon 3-1
Leivo 0-2

They maybe need a Simon/Bennett hybrid. Simon to play in their own zone, Bennett to crash around in the o-zone. I keep saying it’s Dube, but he’s now found a home with other lines.

Leivo is playing his way off the team IMO.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Honestly I agree and personally I would take him out of the lineup for one of Gawdin or Phillips. But the coach would never do that and I think he can fit on that line, he provides no offense but he's good below the goal line and on the cycle which is where that line excels.

You said it yourself: with what Nordstrom provides for the team in the defensive zone and the penalty kill Ward is not taking him out of the lineup. But he also cannot put him on the third line because of how much he is likely to neuter Backlund and Mangiapane offensively.

When I look at the lineups the fourth line always looks to me like the collection of extras, which is totally fine given how they have been distributing ice time.

[868904]

Even if Ward doesn't like Bennett, at least make him tradable. What the hell is he doing?

You can't blame Bennett for wanting out. This is ridiculous.

Even if he puts Bennett on a real line to start the game tonight, he's already trolled him by running those lines in the pre-game skate. I don't know if he's trying to intentionally piss off Bennett so that playoff Bennett shows up. I'm not sure if that has really worked in the past. Bennett just becomes less engaged when given less opportunity.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I turned 46 today so I expect a 46-0 win. Tanev scores 43 of them. GFG.

How many of those 43 will be scored from center ice or farther?

[GioforPM]

To some extent I think coaches build lines based on defensive and transition play because they figure that the offensive zone sort of plays out based on talent and minutes.

Is Ward too focused on those possession numbers for Simon versus Bennett on the Monahan line? Quite likely. Those numbers are the only rational explanation. And TBF, no one on the board talks very much about the defensive zone when we play around with line combinations.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

To some extent I think coaches build lines based on defensive and transition play because they figure that the offensive zone sort of plays out based on talent and minutes.

Is Ward too focused on those possession numbers for Simon versus Bennett on the Monahan line? Quite likely. Those numbers are the only rational explanation. And TBF, no one on the board talks very much about the defensive zone when we play around with line combinations.

Not sure I agree.

Ideally you complete the Trottier Bossy line with Gillies, but sometimes you just don't have one lying around.

Monahan and Gaudreau have the finish and creativity to get things done if they don't spend too much time in their own zone. If Simon gets them out of there better maybe it doesn't matter if he's literally invisible offensively.

[---Hatrick---]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Pat Steinberg @Fan960Steinberg
#Flames projected tonight vs. Vancouver:

Mangiapane-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Gaudreau-Monahan-Simon
Lucic-Backlund-Dube
Nordstrom-Froese-Bennett

Hanifin-Tanev
Giordano-Valimaki
Nesterov-Andersson

Markstrom

Wtf... why not put Bennett in a position to succeed, even if the plan is to trade him

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by 868904

Even if Ward doesn't like Bennett, at least make him tradable. What the hell is he doing?

You can't blame Bennett for wanting out. This is ridiculous.

Even if he puts Bennett on a real line to start the game tonight, he's already trolled him by running those lines in the pre-game skate. I don't know if he's trying to intentionally piss off Bennett so that playoff Bennett shows up. I'm not sure if that has really worked in the past. Bennett just becomes less engaged when given less opportunity.

He can't construct the lineup around the feelings of one player. I think Bennett has had good moments over the past few weeks, but he is still a utility player on this roster who has also not cemented himself into permanent roster position.

[BigErnSalute_16]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

They have to make a change, doesn't excuse the completely ridiculous line combinations he put out there this morning though.

They could easily actually run with 4 strong lines though and it's not that hard to do from a TOI perspective either.

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Leivo: 12-13 minutes
Gaudreau - Monahan - Simon: 11-12 minutes
Mangiapane - Backlund - Nordstrom (I'd have somebody else here (Gawdin/Phillips) but coach isn't taking Nordstrom out of the lineup): 11-12 minutes
Lucic- Bennett - Dube : 10-11 minutes

And then if you end up down in the third and need to shorten the bench there is a super simple way to execute on that too.

Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane
Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Lucic - Bennett - Dube

Simon/Leivo/Nordstrom sit.

Super easy way to start the game more balanced with more depth across all 4 lines, and then if you need to get a spark or get a goal you load up your top 6 with our 6 best forwards and go back to the lines from last years playoffs.



Honestly I agree and personally I would take him out of the lineup for one of Gawdin or Phillips. But the coach would never do that and I think he can fit on that line, he provides no offense but he's good below the goal line and on the cycle which is where that line excels.

Could be as simple as Line 3: Lucic - Backlund - Mangiapane
Line 4: Nordstrom - Bennett - Dube

BUT... only play nordstrom where he excels, pk and late in game situations. For the rest of the time, just rotate skill players through on Bennett's left wing. Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Mangiapane, Leivo, Simon. Whoever is playing good, gets rewarded with a couple extra shifts.

[The Boy Wonder]

I just don't get the point of breaking up your best line 5v5 from the last game.

Bennett - Lucic - Dube looked great. Why not just put Backs on 2L centre and Mony on the wing and simon wherever?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure I agree.

Ideally you complete the Trottier Bossy line with Gillies, but sometimes you just don't have one lying around.

Monahan and Gaudreau have the finish and creativity to get things done if they don't spend too much time in their own zone. If Simon gets them out of there better maybe it doesn't matter if he's literally invisible offensively.

I didn’t want to defend Ward too much over this one aspect, but that makes sense, and gets at what I can only imagine is the rationale. Maybe every shift Simon helps them exit, then beats it to the bench for a better offensive guy (jk).

[TheIronMaiden]

If they don't wanna play Bennet with Gaudreau and Monahan that's fine, but there are better ways to adjust the roster.

Bennett-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Gaudreau-Monahan-Mangiapane
Lucic-Backlund-Dube
Nordstrom-Froese-Simon

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by BigErnSalute_16

Could be as simple as Line 3: Lucic - Backlund - Mangiapane
Line 4: Nordstrom - Bennett - Dube

BUT... only play nordstrom where he excels, pk and late in game situations. For the rest of the time, just rotate skill players through on Bennett's left wing. Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Mangiapane, Leivo, Simon. Whoever is playing good, gets rewarded with a couple extra shifts.

Take a look at how ice time has been distributed over the last number of games and I think it is pretty clear that the coaches want to run a three-line bench. Players on the fourth line are getting only occasional shifts and special teams assignments, while the top three roll through their paces at even strength and the powerplay.

[Monahammer]

I'm going to get lampooned for this one as I have been a vociferous defender of Monahan at centre, but as Lindy is proving to be a centre beast why not just try to roll Johnny-Lindy-Monahan for a little while? Mony has actually been struggling at faceoffs this season so it might be worthwhile.

[Young Guns]

Bennett is the better option to play with Gaudreau/Mony. Simon & Leivo have brought absolutely nothing offensively or defensively. To say they deserve to be on that line over Bennett is crazy.

Just like Buddy Robinson is a better choice for the 4th line. He is huge (6'6" 232lbs), fast, creates turnovers and hits. Would wear down the other team if he got more than 3 min a game. Much better choice than Simon in my non-professional opinion.

[Toonage]

Listening to Lou justify or at least try to explain why Simon is playing with Gaudreau & Monahan and you can almost hear him pulling a muscle as he stretches this.

[savardandjokinen]

What they should do is

Tkachuk-Lindholm-X
Gaudreau-Monahan-X
Mangiapane-Backlund-X
Lucic-Bennett-Dube

Knowing the flames X would probably be Leivo, Simon and Nordstrom, but whatever, I’d prefer 4 deep lines and ones we know have clicked in the past

[Textcritic]

Listening to Loubardius now, maybe the lines are also precautionary in the event that Backlund cannot go tonight? He is still a game time decision, I think, and if he cannot go then they will want to put Bennett back with Dube and Lucic where he was so effective on Monday. This is probably more about seeing how Backlund is ahead of the game tonight, and to be ready in the event that he cannot go.

[WhiteTiger]

Go Flames go!

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think part of the issue with Bennett is how he isn't be rewarded for good performances.


For instance, his line was really good at 5on5 in the playoffs, and had all of Conroy, Treliving and even Ward himself talking about how he needs to be a centre and makes a better centre than a winger, etc., and most specifically, that he WILL get a long look at centre this year.
- Flames start with him on the 4th line centre and very limited minutes.


Comes off a really good game as the third line centre, after having decent production on the top line (better than any of Leivo, Simon and Nordstrom):
- starts the game as 4th line winger


Of course if I am him, I am going to be disappointed and feeling like my future is not with this team, and that is 100% fair.


However, the Lindholm at centre experiment is not something Ward should be scrapping either. Having another bona fide scoring line that can also be defensively responsible would be incredibly huge, and I do think he is right to be patient with it. I have long advocated for Kylington to have gotten the reps down the stretch and in the playoffs over guys like Forbort who then went on to other teams. Kylington could have used that experience and those reps to improve. I argue the same for Lindholm here - I think he has both earned it, and for the most part, he has continued to keep earning his ice-time at centre. No issues here.


Bennett is also obviously not going to displace Monahan, so we don't need to discuss it.


Backlund? While some of you might view him as a 'risk contract' moving forward, no other centre on this team can play Backlund's tough minutes and do that well. Nobody. I look at him as a backbone on this team, and I think Ward looks at him the same way.


However, if I am Ward, I am going to try and keep Bennett happy. Why? Aside from him being a 4th overall pick that the team obviously invested heavily into, he has proven to be a very good 3rd line centre that gives this team a great look. He is also one of the few heavy players on this team.


If the Lindholm experiment fizzles-out, it would be huge for the team to have someone like Bennett just step in as a centre. Move Backlund up to the 2nd line centre, Bennett at 3rd, and you are still fairly strong at centre.


For the "Backlund is old and a contract risk" crowd - well, having Bennett that can come in and be a competent 3rd line centre backfilling for Backlund's departure is also huge for this team.


Outside of this, Bennett has been the best producer on the top line. Much like I think Kylington could have used those reps, Bennett can use those reps on the top line and figure out if he can start developing chemistry on that line rather than try and stick a bunch of bargain-bin UFA players should be slotted on the top line.


I personally think that Leivo has been looking better in this games for the most part - more confident at holding onto the puck and making better plays.


I don't hate Simon at all on the top line - he gets the puck and is able to make a pass to Gaudreau or Monahan, and he helps get the puck off the boards. He doesn't possess much in the way of offensive skill to speak of - which is NOT good at all - but in all other aspects I have found that he fits that line decently enough.


Bennett has some offensive ability to his game. He can make better plays. He can capitalize on chances better. It also seems like he is developing chemistry - Bingo shows that the underlying metrics for that line have been improving. Why not just keep him there and give him the reps as things are looking like they are actually improving? It keeps him more contented for now instead of having to trade him, which keeps the Flames' options more open when it comes to Lindholm and Backlund. It just makes more sense to me anyway.


But yeah, if I am Bennett and I have good games, and then get demoted, of course I am going to be upset.