The Home Improvement Thread

[Mass_nerder]

Yeah, might have to do with limiting distance; the vented soffit might be considered an unprotected opening.
The roof structure relies on cool air coming up through the soffit and keeping the underside of the roof cool, so if you're not getting any air flow, it would only compound the ice damming problem. Is it solid everywhere, or are there vents intermittently?
Out of curiosity, what fix did they implement to address your ice dam?

[Calgary14]

That actually makes sense. But if it has to be solid (which it likely does in my case) what would the rules be around venting? If the attic can’t breathe on the sides they’d need additional vents on top of the normally planned ones (guessing)

[Calgary14]

The fix for the ice damming was to replace the shingles and the roted wood underneath. I think at least half the issue is the ventilation of the attic since it can’t breathe on the sides

[Fuzz]

The only practical solution to this issue is to install intake events on top of the roof near the eaves trough line. This, of course, creates a new problem: that of air intake blockage due to snow accumulation on top of these vents and that of snow infiltration into the attic space. Although problematic for a healthy attic, his has become a challenge to the Calgary and Alberta marketplace, to which we strive to find a creative and sustainable solution through time, trial and error, and patience.

http://www.calgary-roofing.com/ventilation/


Best to find yourself a magic lamp or monkey paw.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Calgary14

That actually makes sense. But if it has to be solid (which it likely does in my case) what would the rules be around venting? If the attic can’t breathe on the sides they’d need additional vents on top of the normally planned ones (guessing)

What year is your house built? Are your soffits aluminum or wood? Do you have any soffit venting on other sections?

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by Calgary14

The fix for the ice damming was to replace the shingles and the roted wood underneath. I think at least half the issue is the ventilation of the attic since it can’t breathe on the sides

Yeah, that's only addressing the symptom. There's going to be an underlying issue causing it (I'm guessing it has to do with venting). Until that's addressed, you'll probably have ice damming issues again.

I would Google around for building envelope experts and see if they can take a look.

Edit: my old building science professor was very knowledgable and I think does consulting for this kind of thing, although he might not do small scale residential
https://www.leederidder.com/building...d-remediation/

[puckedoff]

What is the downside of just breaking the rules and putting vented soffit on that side? That would be easiest and would probably improve the situation or buy time until you can do more testing and address it elsewhere.

[Calgary14]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

What year is your house built? Are your soffits aluminum or wood? Do you have any soffit venting on other sections?

2012 build. Aluminum soffits, solid on both sides (per code I think) and perforated on the ends.

I agree with the above the ice damming is a symptom and not the real issue. But this sounds like it's going to be a trial and error, long drawn out process.

I'm wondering why I never see whirlybirds around here. They would for sure improve circulation in the attic (needed in my case). But I cant think of the last time Ive seen one here.

What confuses me (and roofing companies who have come by for a quote) is how if the roof is fixed, how can there still be water coming down the side of the house? For example today I saw water dripping down the siding (and freezing).It starts about 3-4' (guess) below the soffit and seems to come out of nowhere. Frustrating because I would go up there myself but it's very tall and I just dont think it's safe for someone with zero experience to be up there especially in the winter.

The downside of adding perforated soffits on the side is it would go against city code which (I assume) would make your home insurance null and void. Just a guess.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Calgary14

2012 build. Aluminum soffits, solid on both sides (per code I think) and perforated on the ends.

I agree with the above the ice damming is a symptom and not the real issue. But this sounds like it's going to be a trial and error, long drawn out process.

I'm wondering why I never see whirlybirds around here. They would for sure improve circulation in the attic (needed in my case). But I cant think of the last time Ive seen one here.

What confuses me (and roofing companies who have come by for a quote) is how if the roof is fixed, how can there still be water coming down the side of the house? For example today I saw water dripping down the siding (and freezing).It starts about 3-4' (guess) below the soffit and seems to come out of nowhere. Frustrating because I would go up there myself but it's very tall and I just dont think it's safe for someone with zero experience to be up there especially in the winter.

The downside of adding perforated soffits on the side is it would go against city code which (I assume) would make your home insurance null and void. Just a guess.

The non-vented sideyard soffits is definitely an issue on houses not getting enough ventilation. NRC loves to revise the code to solve one problem without considering the other problems it will create. So we do non-vented soffits on the sides to prevent a draw during the fire of an adjacent building, but we create attic rain and ice damming issues on tens of thousands of houses as these builders aren’t often understanding they really need to be conscious of their roof designs to accommodate getting appropriate ventilation.

Imagine a long house on a 25’ lot. A front-back gable would be the simplest and most appropriate roofline, but it would provide zero soffit venting.

If you have any unvented front or back gables you could look at adding in-wall vents. Make sure you don’t have insulation blocking your active soffit vents (insulation baffles). Make sure your bath exhaust fans are vented properly to the exterior. Make sure your attic hatch is well insulated and well sealed. Make sure there are no penetrations into the attic where warm air from the house is getting directly into the attic.

[Mass_nerder]

Is there any wetness showing up on the inside of that wall? Attic ventilation is definitely an issue, but the moisture on the exterior wall could be coming about from condensation of conditioned interior air condensing somewhere is the roof/wall assembly. Again, I would suggest looking into consulting with a building envelope specialist. Roofers aren't going to be able to solve the core issues you're having.

[Calgary14]

The baseboard was wet in early January, which is what started the whole thing. They ended up taking out the wall and the insulation was wet. But for that one I think that was related to the roof (guessing) since we got a ton of snow late Dec and then it was mild. The wall is below a weird valley in the roof that wasnt shingled properly, when they fixed that part in January the plywood was rotted out

[calgarygeologist]

My current dishwasher is hard wired and I bought a new Bosch unit. With the new Bosch one you have to buy a special junction box that feeds a power cord which goes into the dishwasher. Bosch says to just leave the junction box on the floor unit the dishwasher but I was thinking about passing the electrical wire through the cabinet side and mounting the junction box inside the sink cabinet.

Would this be a significant no-no? I know that water and electricity are not friends but regardless of whether the junction box is under the dishwasher or inside the sink cabinet there is always the risk of a leak and short.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

My current dishwasher is hard wired and I bought a new Bosch unit. With the new Bosch one you have to buy a special junction box that feeds a power cord which goes into the dishwasher. Bosch says to just leave the junction box on the floor unit the dishwasher but I was thinking about passing the electrical wire through the cabinet side and mounting the junction box inside the sink cabinet.

Would this be a significant no-no? I know that water and electricity are not friends but regardless of whether the junction box is under the dishwasher or inside the sink cabinet there is always the risk of a leak and short.

My Bosch junction box is under the sink. From a practical perspective, could make pulling out the dishwasher harder, but I figure if I'm going that that step, disconnecting a junction box is the least of my worries.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by Calgary14

The baseboard was wet in early January, which is what started the whole thing. They ended up taking out the wall and the insulation was wet. But for that one I think that was related to the roof (guessing) since we got a ton of snow late Dec and then it was mild. The wall is below a weird valley in the roof that wasnt shingled properly, when they fixed that part in January the plywood was rotted out

It could be the roof, but that's also what I would expect to find if you were having issues with your air barrier.
Basically, there is a temperature gradient from your exterior cladding to your interior gypsum. Somewhere in that gradient is your dew point where the humidity in the warm conditioned interior air would condense. This typically happens somewhere in your insulation. So the name of the game is keeping that warm humid air from getting to the dew point. Typically in wood frame construction, the air barrier stopping that interior air would be between your interior gypsum and the stud. If that barrier is improperly installed, or missing completely in that area, there isn't anything stopping the interior air from condensing in the wall cavity and leaving your insulation wet.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

It could be the roof, but that's also what I would expect to find if you were having issues with your air barrier.
Basically, there is a temperature gradient from your exterior cladding to your interior gypsum. Somewhere in that gradient is your dew point where the humidity in the warm conditioned interior air would condense. This typically happens somewhere in your insulation. So the name of the game is keeping that warm humid air from getting to the dew point. Typically in wood frame construction, the air barrier stopping that interior air would be between your interior gypsum and the stud. If that barrier is improperly installed, or missing completely in that area, there isn't anything stopping the interior air from condensing in the wall cavity and leaving your insulation wet.

Air barrier is on the outside. Vapour barrier, generally 6mil poly is on the inside.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Ducay

My Bosch junction box is under the sink. From a practical perspective, could make pulling out the dishwasher harder, but I figure if I'm going that that step, disconnecting a junction box is the least of my worries.

The cord for the plug seems to be plenty long to put the junction box in the sink cabinet and still be able to pull out the dishwasher if necessary. I think it would be a cleaner installation with the box in the cabinet instead of under the dishwasher.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Air barrier is on the outside. Vapour barrier, generally 6mil poly is on the inside.

Air barrier should be on the warm side.
Vapor barrier can be there too, and 6 mil poly can function as both.
House wrap on the exterior can act as an air barrier, but it only guards against air infiltration which isn't a huge concern in cool climates

Edit: Best practice would be to use exterior insulation with a self adhered vapor open air barrier on the outside face of the sheathing, but that's expensive and rarely used in single family residential. Instead builders use interior air barrier systems that theoretically work, but depend on perfect installation, which is why houses tend to have a lot of moisture issues.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

Air barrier should be on the warm side.
Vapor barrier can be there too, and 6 mil poly can function as both.
House wrap on the exterior can act as an air barrier, but it only guards against air infiltration which isn't a huge concern in cool climates

Edit: Best practice would be to use exterior insulation with a self adhered vapor open air barrier on the outside face of the sheathing, but that's expensive and rarely used in single family residential. Instead builders use interior air barrier systems that theoretically work, but depend on perfect installation, which is why houses tend to have a lot of moisture issues.

You can call it whatever you want and reverse the terms all you want but you’re not correct.

Tyvek, house wrap or tar paper are air barriers and used on the exterior. Poly is a vapour barrier and is used on the interior. Trust me man, I’m an Architectural Technologist with 20+ years experience, much of it in custom residential.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

You can call it whatever you want and reverse the terms all you want but you’re not correct.

Tyvek, house wrap or tar paper are air barriers and used on the exterior. Poly is a vapour barrier and is used on the interior. Trust me man, I’m an Architectural Technologist with 20+ years experience, much of it in custom residential.

I'm not reversing terms.
I know that tyvek can be an air barrier, but it guards against air infiltration, which isn't a big problem in cool climates. Instead it essential functions as a drainage plane in cool climates. 6 mil poly is a vapor barrier, and vapor diffusion is certainly a concern, it is much less of a problem than exfiltration of humid interior air.
"Air barrier systems can be located anywhere in the building enclosure – at the exterior surface, the interior surface, or at any location in between. In cold climates, interior air barrier systems control the exfiltration of interior, often moisture-laden air"
air barriers
vapor barriers

I'm Intern Architect and also worked for 5+ years as an architectural technologist before that.

[Ducay]

Architectural pedantry brawl? Fight! Fight! Fight!