[PGT] Flames lay an egg

[Robbob]

Burn the tape. How they respond to this will be telling.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

This is Sean Monahan’s 8th season in the NHL. He’s played 555 regular season games.

If you have to “learn” that you have to try in the NHL, there is no saving you.

Putting forth effort on a consistent basis, is what it will take to win. This group will not do it, and we have literally hundreds of games of evidence of it over the last several years.

It’s blow it up time. This is a pretty obvious one at this point. It was obvious awhile ago but we tried lipsticking the already lipsticked pig..... again....

Need to do a proper rebuild, or hire a coach that can get more out of the players.

[Mr.Coffee]

Effort and care has to come from within. No coach is getting this core to magically become professionals. They literally refuse to do it.

A new coach is more lipstick on the already thrice lipsticked pig. Blow it up.

This core will not win. And their legacy will be laziness.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by TOfan

One the subject of coaching and the reasoning some are putting forward here, I wonder what the reaction would have been if the Flames had hired Craig Berube 2-3 years ago.

I’d be place a pretty confident bet the same lame criticism’s would have been trotted out by the same lot who seem to know better than Ward, or any of the other coaches the Flames have employed over the past 6 years.

It’s not Ward’s job to motivate the players. It’s his job to prepare them. It’s not Ward who can or can not make a five foot pass. it’s the players, not coaches or management, who deserve the criticism from last night’s embarrassment.

Serious question. If your not going to blame the coach, or GM then how would you suggest fixing the team?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

By this do you mean on the PP when Gaudreau isn't executing because he can't stick handle through 4 players lined up at the blue line?

Yes. Why he kept doing the same thing repeatedly, on the same shift, is mind boggling.

How can you not see the issue in this example isn't Gaudreau not executing, it's that he's being asked to execute something stupid that won't work more often than not.

If you think Ray Edwards was actually telling JG to skate right at an opposing player without getting the puck deep....(something they clamor about repeatedly in interviews when asked how to be successful)...then i have some great property you may be interested in.

How demotivating is it for your coach to keep sending you out to do something that isn't working. Because that is where we are at with this team.

Yeah...there isnt a coach alive that tells any player to do that if its not there. Like...what are you talking about?

What shocks me is that people seem to think coaching doesn't matter in the best hockey league in the world.

Of course it matters...but they can only ask the players to execute what is being asked of them Its then, you know, on the players to do so.

Ward got the HC job by accident, did nothing in his first year and was then re-hired when proven NHL coaches were available.

This is a giant middle finger to the fans.

He hasnt even been a HC for a seasons worth of games. I, you, BT, no one knows what kind of coach Ward may or may not be yet. There simply isnt enough data, but if you want to use what is available

He is 31-21-4 in the regular season.

1-1 in playoff series.

Where is the issue with that?

[442scotty]

The flames seem to have a hard time playing a fast, high tempo game. They do it rarely it seems. Too many slow players on the team dragging down the fast players like Dube, Mangiapane, Backlund, Lindholm ? It’s like there’s very little Chemistry.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Serious question. If your not going to blame the coach, or GM then how would you suggest fixing the team?

Well, I think Treliving would like to change the team but a flat cap, JG’s underwhelming season last year, and Treliving’s evidedently not selling low on assets have lead to team to the position it is in today.

I think the Glames need to be patient. It’s clear they’re not a Stanley cup contender, but that doesn’t mean they should ‘blow it up’.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Effort and care has to come from within. No coach is getting this core to magically become professionals. They literally refuse to do it.

A new coach is more lipstick on the already thrice lipsticked pig. Blow it up.

This core will not win. And their legacy will be laziness.

Were they lazy under Hartley and Peters?

The coache's job is to get the most out of his players. What message does it send to the team when you hire the cheapest coaches you can find?

Have you ever had a bad boss? It's incredibly demotivating. These are human beings, not robots.

[CroCop]

“Burn the tape. How they respond to this will be telling.”

The same could be said for most of the games they’ve played this season. Including games they were lucky enough to win. This group is seemingly never ready to play. It has become habit and it has everything to do with the core, culture and leadership. Changes were clearly required after the Col series but were never addressed. Until it happens expect more of the same.

[flambers]

Flames are really lucky they have a star goalie, or they would be near the bottom of the standings....

Not sure why this lineup is not clicking, however changes are required.

(player changes)

Forwards have no chemistry.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Need to do a proper rebuild, or hire a coach that can get more out of the players.

Originally Posted by CroCop

The same could be said for most of the games they’ve played this season. Including games they were lucky enough to win. This group is seemingly never ready to play. It has become habit and it has everything to do with the core, culture and leadership. Changes were clearly required after the Col series but were never addressed. Until it happens expect more of the same.

How many years could the same have been said about the the Caps and the Blues?

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by flambers

Flames are really lucky they have a star goalie, or they would be near the bottom of the standings....

This can't be stressed enough.

[browna]

The continual "this core has been through 4 coaches and nothing" argument isn't factual. Bill Peters developed a system, preached it, demanded buy in.

When there was buy in and it was proven the system worked, which gave the team confidence that the coach new what he was doing. And, when the in game tactics requires changing, or a push, he could deliver handle that, and again, the team is successful and the players can be confident that the plan works and continue to go along with that plan.

All that meant is that the coach proved that he knew what he was doing and he knew what each player should be doing, and his tactics and game plan worked. He made your hockey life miserable if you didn't execute, but if it meant winning games, the players continued to buy in and players like winning as opposed to losing.

If you didn't buy in, there were consequences immediately. But players knew thier role and their role was just to execute and didn't have any ambiguity or uncertainess of what they had to do each of their shifts on the ice or role on the team.

Peters and the Flames rolled with that, consistently, over 82 games, to finish 2nd in the league with this same core but a less overall talented team.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yes. Why he kept doing the same thing repeatedly, on the same shift, is mind boggling.



If you think Ray Edwards was actually telling JG to skate right at an opposing player without getting the puck deep....(something they clamor about repeatedly in interviews when asked how to be successful)...then i have some great property you may be interested in.



Yeah...there isnt a coach alive that tells any player to do that if its not there. Like...what are you talking about?



Of course it matters...but they can only ask the players to execute what is being asked of them Its then, you know, on the players to do so.




He hasnt even been a HC for a seasons worth of games. I, you, BT, no one knows what kind of coach Ward may or may not be yet. There simply isnt enough data, but if you want to use what is available

He is 31-21-4 in the regular season.

1-1 in playoff series.

Where is the issue with that?

So Gaudreau should unilaterally change the entry in the PP and dump, despite the fact all the other players are standing still and his game could not be less suited to puck retrieval? Yeah, that sure is on him and not the coaching staff.

Maybe the team record is in spite of Ward, not because of him.

How you could defend Leivo on when trying to tie the game last night is beyond me.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Were they lazy under Hartley and Peters?

The coache's job is to get the most out of his players. What message does it send to the team when you hire the cheapest coaches you can find?

Have you ever had a bad boss? It's incredibly demotivating. These are human beings, not robots.

Yes, they had lazy games and were wildly inconsistent game to game and period to period.

But Hartley and Peters were bad coaches too.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by transplant99

He hasnt even been a HC for a seasons worth of games. I, you, BT, no one knows what kind of coach Ward may or may not be yet. There simply isnt enough data, but if you want to use what is available

He is 31-21-4 in the regular season.

1-1 in playoff series.

Where is the issue with that?

The players have to take a lot of the blame too. I don’t think there is person who is critiquing the coaches that hasn’t said that, but it’s pretty clear this coaching staff isn’t very good either and isn’t the solution.

The record is irrelevant to me as they had a bit of a bump right after Peters was fired, but really they’ve been .500 under Ward outside of that, and the bigger issue to me is the style of play he has them playing and his player utilization.

It became obvious in the series against Dallas, and it’s continued into this season, IMO he’s trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and is playing a system that doesn’t suit this roster. It’s a boring and safe system that you’d expect a team like Ottawa who is rebuilding to play, take no risks and reap no rewards.

Collapse in front of your net, safe plays up the wall to exit the zone, don’t try to attack with speed turn back and make the safe pass, don’t try to make a play at the other teams blueline - just get it deep, and don’t try to step up at your own blueline just back up and give them the zone entry. Those all seems to be things that this coaching staff preaches because the team has played that safe, grind it out style of hockey since Ward became coach.

Playing this style means you are handcuffing your own skill guys. Play a low risk style of play that a rebuilding team would play, and you will get rebuilding results on the ice. Except even worse because the young guys and grinders will probably execute dump and chase better than a smaller veteran team with skill.

The GM and Coach seem to want this team to play boring, heavy hockey when they have built a roster not suited to doing so at all.

Then on top of that Ward has made questionable personal decisions in terms of how he utilizes his bench, and really I don’t like how he never takes responsibility for any of the poor performances (going back to throwing Talbot under the bus after he was the one who made the stupid decision to pull him).

And this isn’t all Geoff Wards fault, it’s Brad Treliving. Ward should have never been put in this position to start with. Treliving was given a mulligan with this coaching staff after the Peters incident and he had a chance to go a different direction, instead he decided to stay course with the exact staff we had the two seasons prior (minus Peters), just a stupid decision.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Well, I think Treliving would like to change the team but a flat cap, JG’s underwhelming season last year, and Treliving’s evidedently not selling low on assets have lead to team to the position it is in today.

I think the Glames need to be patient. It’s clear they’re not a Stanley cup contender, but that doesn’t mean they should ‘blow it up’.

We can blame the players, but that doesn't fix the problem. Something has to change if the players are not getting it done. We blame the core for not caring, executing but whose job is it to fix it? Someone has to fix it!? We can be patient but unfortunately these are the players we have.

[Scroopy Noopers]

[Red]

Originally Posted by TOfan

How many years could the same have been said about the the Caps and the Blues?

Sure, there is some of that. But those teams had dominant players that performed for most part and the teams were always a threat to go deep. Just couldn't take that last step as it takes a lot to win it all.

We are not even on the same planet. Can you envision the Flames winning 4 playoff series all in the same year? They won like 4 playoff games in the last 6 years.

[browna]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Yes, they had lazy games and were wildly inconsistent game to game and period to period.

But Hartley and Peters were bad coaches too.

Sure they didn't win every game under Peters but he proved what you could pull out of this core over the course of an 82 game season, and that's what the argument now is really all about.