High-Profile Sexual Abuse Epidemic

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

The Catholic church needs to die, it has become a haven for child rapists and they actively protect them. It should be designated as a criminal organization at this point

All organized religion falls under this banner. RCC is just the gold standard.

[flamesfever]

Have you guys ever considered the element of stability the Catholic Church and the Royals provide?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I don't think it's fair to lump them together. The Royals are a totally separate convo from organized religion.

At this point the Royals are nothing but meaningless figurehead celebrities who generate hundreds of millions in revenue for the UK.

The Catholic church owns millions of acres or property around the world tax free. Anything they own that is a tourist attraction should be treated like any other historical landmark. All other benefits they get, along with every other organized religion, should be abolished immediately.

If they want to register as charities and follow those rules, let them. That being said, the entire non profit industry needs an overhaul too.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Have you guys ever considered the element of stability the Catholic Church and the Royals provide?

For whom? The vast majority of people in the world aren't Catholic. Does that imply that atheists/agnostics and republicans (anti-monarchs) aren't stable? Even more people aren't subjects of the British Crown. What exactly is the stabilizing element of Catholicism and Royalty in this day and age? I'd say the level of stability (whatever that means) is roughly the same between both the in and out groups.

People who are devoutly religious must believe in magical thinking in order to justify their faith. Unfortunately, this magical thinking can spread to other parts of their lives. Most Flat-Earthers are deeply religious. The majority of Q-Anon are religious. The vast majority of terrorists (both 'international' and domestic) justify their actions because God. One can believe in a creator without succumbing to magical thinking but one can not claim to be rational if they lean on faith and the magical stories which include resurrection, parting seas, talking bushes, evil snakes, magic underpants, elephant/monkey/etc gods, virgins to rape in heaven, etc.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Have you ever tried the classic replace the word God with Odin or Zeus in the bible and then read it? You'll potentially get a bit of a taste of what we hear when you talk about god.

LOL, I've had a few people try slip subtle indoctrination messages into my children, and this is my tactic for disarming them.

Kid says "I was at x friends house, and they do x because god".

I say "Which one?, Thor is my favorite because I like the Avengers movies, but I also like Woden because I was born on a Wednesday, jesus is kind of boring all he was rise from the dead (gods aren't supposed to die), also like Saturn because Christmas if my favorite holiday, Dionysis because everyone loves wine, Uranus because it's funny that Poseidon got the worst name change, and Zeus cause he gets all the girls."

[The Familia]

Originally Posted by Sliver

lol, I barely know how to begin with you. Your whole post was just nonsense and misunderstanding. And why are you so angry? I'm the one who should be mad at you...your book and your beliefs claim I'm going to burn in hell for eternity because I don't believe what you believe. That's such a horrible and violent claim you have against me and my family - and with no evidence. Honestly, I think you're a lunatic if you believe that.

I did paint every religious person with a broad brush, though, but it's completely fair. I mean, religious people are proud to have faith. They have faith that their beliefs are true despite a complete lack of evidence. They are proud of their shunning of facts and logic in favour of - quite frankly - a bunch of obvious malarkey and contradiction.

As for are they good people? Yes, of course religious people are every bit as good as areligious people. They have just been subjected to a barrage of manipulation and indoctrination from birth. It seems as though religion carves out pathways or something in the brain to hardwire beliefs that are utterly preposterous when presented to educated adults. With few exceptions, you need to steep somebody in religion from a young age to get it to take.

Your analogy makes zero sense, has no basis, and is complete nonsense. If you don't believe in religion then why would you be upset if "my book" says you are going to hell? According to you it's a piece of fiction so it doesn't matter what it says as it's just a story. No one is threatening your family as long as you believe the story is fake. Now, if you are truly feeling threatened then you have opened up a whole other can of worms and you may need to have a deep conversation with yourself. So what is it? Is it fiction or not? If your answer is fiction (which I know it will be), than your introductory analogy is stupid.

Your second statement claiming that it is fair to paint every religious person with the same brush just proves how closed minded you truly are. It's an ignorant comment to make and shows how one sided you are. You are making a broad statement that all religious people are uneducated and only rely on faith. That is so far from the truth. I teach in the Catholic school board and I can tell you the curriculum is the same as CBE. Contrary to what you believe, yes we do in fact teach science and math! I don't know of anyone who shuns facts or logic. I teach my students to think critically and question things every single day. Religion is not immune to questioning. You can question and still have faith. I would love for you to attend a Gr. 9 Religion class and partake in our discussions. Some very enlightening and open minded stuff going on.

As for evidence, go ahead and prove that God doesn't exist. I'll wait. Just like I can't prove there is a God you can't prove there isn't. That's where individual belief comes into play. I think you are a lunatic if you believe that everything in our universe has happened by random chance and are not open to the possibility of a higher power or force. News flash....you can believe in science and a higher power at the same time. They are more intricately linked than you give credit for.

Science and religion can and does coexist. There are many scientists current and past who are religious or believe in a higher power. A close family friend who has a PhD in astrophysics and was a professor at UBC (he is not religious nor affiliated with any religious organization) told us once that it would be foolish of any true scientist to completely discredit the possibility of a God. There are some things science simply can't explain.

Your final claim that religious people have been brainwashed and that "educated adults" would balk at the mere mention of a higher power once again shows how little you know. I'm an adult, have 2 university degrees, enjoy science, and teach math for a living. I'm also Catholic and believe in a God. I don't consider myself stupid or uneducated. Your sweeping generalizations don't help your cause.

Religious organizations aren't perfect. People aren't perfect. There is lots of room for improvement that I can't deny. The pedophile priests are a disgrace and it needs to be cleaned up. I hope that they do. The new Pope is moving things in the right direction, it will still take some time. I'm just sick of the loud "atheist" group claiming they are "right" or better than everyone else. You hate the vocal believers for "pushing" their beliefs, well, looks like you are doing the same thing.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Religious organizations aren't perfect. People aren't perfect. There is lots of room for improvement that I can't deny. The pedophile priests are a disgrace and it needs to be cleaned up. I hope that they do. The new Pope is moving things in the right direction, it will still take some time. I'm just sick of the loud "atheist" group claiming they are "right" or better than everyone else. You hate the vocal believers for "pushing" their beliefs, well, looks like you are doing the same thing.

Take some time?

How much time does the Church need to fix a problem that spits in the face of their beliefs.

Sexual abuse was reported in the Catholic Church in the 11th century FFS.

[Inglewood Jack]

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by The Familia

I teach in the Catholic school board and I can tell you the curriculum is the same as CBE. Contrary to what you believe, yes we do in fact teach science and math! I don't know of anyone who shuns facts or logic. I teach my students to think critically and question things every single day. Religion is not immune to questioning. You can question and still have faith. I would love for you to attend a Gr. 9 Religion class and partake in our discussions. Some very enlightening and open minded stuff going on.

How's the sex-ed teaching? Support for LGBTQ students?

Originally Posted by The Familia

As for evidence, go ahead and prove that God doesn't exist. I'll wait. Just like I can't prove there is a God you can't prove there isn't. That's where individual belief comes into play. I think you are a lunatic if you believe that everything in our universe has happened by random chance and are not open to the possibility of a higher power or force. News flash....you can believe in science and a higher power at the same time. They are more intricately linked than you give credit for.

If you state something exists, the onus is on you to prove it exists, not on everyone else to prove it doesn't. It's the very opposite of scientific. You're acting like assuming God doesn't exist is a belief in itself, it isn't. It's simply the lack of belief in God.

And quite frankly, the notion that our two options are "God" or "random chance" is lunacy. People are happy to understand that we do not have the answers and that we will continue searching for them. That's the scientific pursuit. You have taken a shortcut and come to a conclusion without evidence. That is unscientific.

Originally Posted by The Familia

A close family friend who has a PhD in astrophysics and was a professor at UBC (he is not religious nor affiliated with any religious organization) told us once that it would be foolish of any true scientist to completely discredit the possibility of a God. There are some things science simply can't explain.

There is a difference between not discrediting the possibility of a God, and believing God exists and making decisions and forming a belief system around that idea. And the space between those things is incredibly vast.

Originally Posted by The Familia

You hate the vocal believers for "pushing" their beliefs, well, looks like you are doing the same thing.

And again, not believing in God is not pushing a belief. There is no belief. God does not exist until one can prove with some degree of certainty through the scientific method that he does. And until that time, forming an entire system of belief and moral practice around that idea, seems pretty foolish.

I have no problem with people who believe in God. But I think it is completely ridiculous to make claims of science, of a lack of proof being proof itself, or that refusing to believe in something for which there is no evidence is a belief system in itself. That is moronic.

[Matata]

Atheists are just agnostics with no imagination.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Matata

Atheists are just agnostics with no imagination.

agnostics are just atheists that are scared of what other people think

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Your analogy makes zero sense, has no basis, and is complete nonsense. If you don't believe in religion then why would you be upset if "my book" says you are going to hell? According to you it's a piece of fiction so it doesn't matter what it says as it's just a story. No one is threatening your family as long as you believe the story is fake. Now, if you are truly feeling threatened then you have opened up a whole other can of worms and you may need to have a deep conversation with yourself. So what is it? Is it fiction or not? If your answer is fiction (which I know it will be), than your introductory analogy is stupid.

I don't like the thought of you and the people you teach smugly assuming my children are going to burn eternally in the devil's lair for their lack of belief in your stories. Call me sensitive.

Originally Posted by The Familia

Your second statement claiming that it is fair to paint every religious person with the same brush just proves how closed minded you truly are. It's an ignorant comment to make and shows how one sided you are. You are making a broad statement that all religious people are uneducated and only rely on faith. That is so far from the truth. I teach in the Catholic school board and I can tell you the curriculum is the same as CBE. Contrary to what you believe, yes we do in fact teach science and math! I don't know of anyone who shuns facts or logic. I teach my students to think critically and question things every single day. Religion is not immune to questioning. You can question and still have faith. I would love for you to attend a Gr. 9 Religion class and partake in our discussions. Some very enlightening and open minded stuff going on.

Wow, guy, you really need to slow it down, take a breath and comprehend what I'm writing or else this is going to get old super fast. I never said all religious people are uneducated. I said if you propose your religious beliefs to an educated person who was raised areligious and free of religious indoctrination, they're very unlikely to accept the beliefs. This is obvious because it can't be a coincidence that you were raised Catholic and are now a Catholic as an adult. If you were raised in Iran, you'd be a Muslim. It's not like you were raised Catholic and decided to be a Hindu at 25 years old or something. You - and most religious people - stick with the religion into which they were indoctrinated. Areligious people can make for an interesting case as they have a more objective view on religion since their upbringing lacked a similar indoctrination.

On the curriculum...okay, was anybody saying the Catholic board doesn't have to teach Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic? No, you just barfed out a response to an issue that wasn't raised by me, or anybody else. Nobody thinks Catholic school is just one long religion class all day. It's like any other school, plus a side of religious indoctrination.

You can question your faith all you want, but if the answers are a given then the questions are of no value.

And yeah, I'm just going to leave the logic in your faith question alone. Like, virgin births, heaven and hell, Noah, Job, parting seas, holy trinity...so much logic.

Originally Posted by The Familia

As for evidence, go ahead and prove that God doesn't exist. I'll wait. Just like I can't prove there is a God you can't prove there isn't. That's where individual belief comes into play. I think you are a lunatic if you believe that everything in our universe has happened by random chance and are not open to the possibility of a higher power or force. News flash....you can believe in science and a higher power at the same time. They are more intricately linked than you give credit for.

Uh-huh. You're the one claiming to believe in a very specific god with specific attributes and has been (and continues to be) active in the world/universe. You can feel free to prove that...I can't prove something doesn't exist. Nobody can.

Originally Posted by The Familia

Science and religion can and does coexist. There are many scientists current and past who are religious or believe in a higher power. A close family friend who has a PhD in astrophysics and was a professor at UBC (he is not religious nor affiliated with any religious organization) told us once that it would be foolish of any true scientist to completely discredit the possibility of a God. There are some things science simply can't explain.

Yes, I'm aware many highly educated people were indoctrinated from birth to accept the unacceptable. That's contrary to nothing I've said. Also, I don't know a single atheist or areligious person who isn't 100% open to the possibility of a god or gods. If there is evidence, I'll believe. You'd have to be a pretty weak thinker to not be open to the possibility of being wrong and then adjusting your belief structure to get you closer to the truth when presented with new evidence.

Originally Posted by The Familia

Your final claim that religious people have been brainwashed and that "educated adults" would balk at the mere mention of a higher power once again shows how little you know. I'm an adult, have 2 university degrees, enjoy science, and teach math for a living. I'm also Catholic and believe in a God. I don't consider myself stupid or uneducated. Your sweeping generalizations don't help your cause.

Please, try to think critically for one second so you can understand what I'm saying. Not typing it out again, but it's all there and not ambiguous.

Originally Posted by The Familia

Religious organizations aren't perfect. People aren't perfect. There is lots of room for improvement that I can't deny. The pedophile priests are a disgrace and it needs to be cleaned up. I hope that they do. The new Pope is moving things in the right direction, it will still take some time. I'm just sick of the loud "atheist" group claiming they are "right" or better than everyone else. You hate the vocal believers for "pushing" their beliefs, well, looks like you are doing the same thing.

Atheists claiming they're better. lol. You're the one in the club that god has chosen as extra special so you get to chill in heaven with him while the rest of us toil away in a never ending hell. I like truth; you have faith that you're right independent of where the truth leads.

[troutman]

Survey: More than a quarter of white evangelicals believe core QAnon conspiracy theory
https://religionnews.com/2021/02/11/...piracy-theory/

[GGG]

Not that this is the thread for it but you do have the

Gnostic atheists which rely on faith that God does not exist (Posters like Duffman and I believe Cheese both refused to accept the possibility of a God)

And you have

Agnostic Athiests which state that there is no evidence that an intervening God exists but should such evidence appear they would reevaluate their position. They would also acknowledge that a Deist God could exist but it would make no difference to the state of the universe and therefore doesn’t matter.

The 1st position is a faith based position much like religion. I would also argue that most athiests (of either type) if confronted with evidence that would undermine their worldview they would become more entrenched in their positions as this is a human failing we have seen repeated over and over again.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GGG

Not that this is the thread for it but you do have the

Gnostic atheists which rely on faith that God does not exist (Posters like Duffman and I believe Cheese both refused to accept the possibility of a God)

And you have

Agnostic Athiests which state that there is no evidence that an intervening God exists but should such evidence appear they would reevaluate their position. They would also acknowledge that a Deist God could exist but it would make no difference to the state of the universe and therefore doesn’t matter.

The 1st position is a faith based position much like religion.

You're not wrong and I'm not an anti-label kind of guy, but my preference is areligious. I prefer to not be defined by religion at all. Areligious is really the default human position absent of indoctrination.

[GGG]

Also sorry about editing my post after posting

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GGG

Also sorry about editing my post after posting

haha, that's hilarious you remember our back and forth on that from last year.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Science and religion can and does coexist. There are many scientists current and past who are religious or believe in a higher power. A close family friend who has a PhD in astrophysics and was a professor at UBC (he is not religious nor affiliated with any religious organization) told us once that it would be foolish of any true scientist to completely discredit the possibility of a God. There are some things science simply can't explain.

I kinda like what Sean Carrol said on his last podcast, basically that physicists need to start being more clear, telling people that there is pretty much no room left in any of the models for any type of active deity to exist.

Not Vishnu or Yehwey, or Zeus, or hidden life force, a guy that sends angels to impregnated virgin teenagers... If there is anything like a god out there it is much smaller and much less than whatever you are trying to celebrate. Those are the mainsteam scientific facts right now, any other opinion would be accepted into the scientific corpus, but would need overwhelming evidence to be considered.

[bigtmac19]

https://www.laineygossip.com/charism...gel-sets/68039

I find a lot of the comments here, pretty dismissive and disappointing.

"And we know, from the millions of women who have called out their abusers in public, that it doesn’t matter how famous you are, or who you’re associated with – there will still be people who want to shout you down and deny your experiences. Ask Evan Rachel Wood whether she felt any more secure talking about her abuse at the hands of Brian Warner because she now collects a tidy paycheck. More pointedly, ask Aurora Perrineau, an emerging young woman of colour, how it felt to finally come forward, only to be publicly ridiculed and called a liar by a woman who is much more famous and powerful than she is (not to mention someone who purported to be a feminist)."

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by The Familia

Your analogy makes zero sense, has no basis, and is complete nonsense.

If your answer is fiction (which I know it will be), than your introductory analogy is stupid.

Your second statement claiming that it is fair to paint every religious person with the same brush just proves how closed minded you truly are.

It's an ignorant comment to make and shows how one sided you are.

I teach in the Catholic school board

I think you are a lunatic

the mere mention of a higher power once again shows how little you know.

I went to Catholic school and the major things I got out of it was concepts like 'turning the other cheek' and not name calling. Using reason/logic and not emotion to engage with someone even if they are.

I really hope you're not a teacher. If you are, you really need to rethink your Catholic morals. The ones I was brought up on. The way you're engaging would have lost me as a student (and an adult) immediately.