[News] All-encompassing Bennett trade discussions thread

[GioforPM]

Sutter is different from other previous coaches (eg Hartley) because he wasn't fired from the Flames because of coaching, in fact, it was arguably because he quit coaching them.

[ComixZone]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1357770462504251392

Continued idiocy when it comes to lineup construction.

Bennett back on the ice, centring Nordstrom and Lucic. Why is he even playing at this stage?

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I have been a die hard Tre supporter.

I just don't care anymore what the reason is, he just doesn't seem to be getting it figured out.

Either:

1. The sum isn't the whole of it's parts
2. The parts aren't as good as we think they are
3. A bit of both

In the end one of the most frustrating things is, we will likely never get to see this rebuilds "core" perform under an actual, real, proven NHL head coach. If they had gotten a guy like Vigneault for example, and still been this inconsistent, soft as butter, pathetically average group of wannabee's, then we'd know straight up that the core was never good enough. Now we'll never really know.

I'm with you. I have been an ardent Treliving supporter but another year of the same thing is really wearing me down. I hate the Oilers and I'm starting to hate the Flames now too.

Too many unanswered questions year after year. I'll still watch all the games and cheer for the Flames but I'm ready for a massive change. I would like to see a new GM, a new coaching staff and changes made to the core of this team. I'm ready for significant meaningful changes and I don't want Treliving to be in charge of them.

He'll learn and grow from his time in Calgary. He'll get another NHL GM job and probably do better there but he's chasing his losses here and it's time to move on.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

https://twitter.com/user/status/1357770462504251392

Continued idiocy when it comes to lineup construction.

Bennett back on the ice, centring Nordstrom and Lucic. Why is he even playing at this stage?

From the looks of it, an off day for Ryan, so Bennett slots in to replace him

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

https://twitter.com/user/status/1357770462504251392

Continued idiocy when it comes to lineup construction.

Bennett back on the ice, centring Nordstrom and Lucic. Why is he even playing at this stage?

If it ain't broke don't fix it... And if it is broke, don't fix it either.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

https://twitter.com/user/status/1357770462504251392

Continued idiocy when it comes to lineup construction.

Bennett back on the ice, centring Nordstrom and Lucic. Why is he even playing at this stage?

Yea I don’t know why he sticks with what isn’t working..

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Mangiapane
Gaudreau-Monahan-Dube

Should be our top 6.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

https://twitter.com/user/status/1357770462504251392

Continued idiocy when it comes to lineup construction.

Bennett back on the ice, centring Nordstrom and Lucic. Why is he even playing at this stage?

a. No Ryan - they need a 4C, so who else?
b. Lucic is a smart player notwithstanding his foot speed and the giveaway he had the other game. And Bennett has historically played better with him.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Yea I don’t know why he sticks with what isn’t working..

Tkachuk-Lindholm-Mangiapane
Gaudreau-Monahan-Dube

Should be our top 6.

Almost. Chucky plays RW when paired with Mangiapane.

Mangiapane Lindholm Tkachuk
Gaudreau Monahan Dube

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think you are projecting your own feelings and those from some of the fanbase onto the players by assuming that they are all champing at the bit to play with Bennett over the prospect of being saddled with Lucic or Simon. I am sceptical that anyone on the roster is actually feeling this way.

I used Lucic and Simon as only an example, could also say possibly someone might not want to play with Tkachuk because he stirs things up and is slow, or Kylington because he's defensively unreliable. It's just examples so I'm not assuming anything.

And tell me what player wouldn't be feeling like they aren't being utilized? You think Rittich is excited to be a backup? You think guys like Valimaki are happy that they get to watch the PP from the bench? If you ever played any competitive sports you would know this. I bet if Johnny had his choice, he would play more than 20 minutes a night.

[Gaskal]

I'd run with:

Gaudreau Monahan Lindholm
Tkachuk Backlund Mangiapane
Dube Bennett Leivo
Lucic Ryan Simon

[savardandjokinen]

I’m pretty sure Nordstrom has some centre experience. I’d rather just see

Tkachuk Lindholm Dube
Gaudreau Monahan Simon
Mangiapane Backlund Bennett
Lucic Nordstrom Leivo

Weak 4th line but it was already weak. Just don’t give them too many minutes

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

I used Lucic and Simon as only an example, could also say possibly someone might not want to play with Tkachuk because he stirs things up and is slow, or Kylington because he's defensively unreliable. It's just examples so I'm not assuming anything.

And tell me what player wouldn't be feeling like they aren't being utilized? You think Rittich is excited to be a backup? You think guys like Valimaki are happy that they get to watch the PP from the bench? If you ever played any competitive sports you would know this. I bet if Johnny had his choice, he would play more than 20 minutes a night.

Right, but then this is not anything that every player is not used to. In which case I am fairly sure that it is not something that is creating any sort of disruption on the team. Like you said: all players feel like this. Everywhere. This won't create any "dissention"; at least, no more than what is experienced on every NHL team.

[Red]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

I used Lucic and Simon as only an example, could also say possibly someone might not want to play with Tkachuk because he stirs things up and is slow, or Kylington because he's defensively unreliable. It's just examples so I'm not assuming anything.

And tell me what player wouldn't be feeling like they aren't being utilized? You think Rittich is excited to be a backup? You think guys like Valimaki are happy that they get to watch the PP from the bench? If you ever played any competitive sports you would know this. I bet if Johnny had his choice, he would play more than 20 minutes a night.

It's not about him liking one guy over another etc It's about him making it public via the trade request.

Thinking that a player is a bad fit for you is one thing. Telling a TSN reporter the same is a whole other thing.

Translate this to regular Joe life. It's thinking your co-worker sucks versus telling your boss that your co-worker sucks in front of the rest of the team.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Right, but then this is not anything that every player is not used to. In which case I am fairly sure that it is not something that is creating any sort of disruption on the team. Like you said: all players feel like this. Everywhere. This won't create any "dissention"; at least, no more than what is experienced on every NHL team.

Exactly. I was mainly stating to the other poster that it's unlikely players will look at Bennett as the "selfish" "toxic" player because he wants more opportunity which creates tension in the room.

[R2theJ]

After watching the first ten games of this season, it is abundantly clear to me on a few key things:
1.) This team is tissue soft - no physicality of any sort. No willingness to go the hard and greasy areas, now hard forecheck or physical defence. Hit someone for gawd's sake! Make teams pay for being in front of our net or entering our zone. Be hard on the opposing D in the offensive zone...
2.) This team is too worried about making the pretty play than just grinding it out to get to the finish line - too much selfishness. Look at Tkatchuk - love his grit and the crap he starts but he is too busy trying to make highlight reel shots and passes then play with purpose or make the smart play.
3.) This team makes bad passes and decisions and holds the puck too long in the neutral zone. Watch Gio for example - how many passes does he make that hit the opposing player in the skates or get blocked because he waits too long? The giveaways are brutal and killing this team.
4.) This team can't hit the side of a barn when shooting. Its ridiculous how many shot attempts miss wide or high - they need to practice precision shooting. Watch other teams - how many shots go wide or miss? Far less than this team.
5.) Why are guys like Simon and Leivo not being sat for other options or other guys (Like Bennett) to play on the top three lines. This team needs playoff Bennett, but with consistency. I get he is not consistent but he's far better than Simon and Leivo. I'll take Bennett and his inconsistency and bad penalties over these two all day, every day.

At the end of the day it does come down to coaching and line up decisions. Simon, Leivo need to be spare parts - not top line players. Coaches need to make tough calls and have the guts to do it. Backlund makes a bad decision and giveaway that costs the team, bench him. Lucic is not being physical - bench him. Bennett is playing unengaged, bench him. Tkatchuk is being too selfish, bench him - send the message and be the coach, not the good guy.
Just my take...

[Red]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Exactly. I was mainly stating to the other poster that it's unlikely players will look at Bennett as the "selfish" "toxic" player because he wants more opportunity which creates tension in the room.

You see, it's tough for us to tell what these guys think. We are not there. But if this was in my professional life where a team member would bolt the team because I am holding him back, I would not be sending him a christmas card anymore.

These guys are all about the team. Take one for the team etc....Sam is saying nope, I am leaving.

We hear it all the time. Especially when vets play smaller roles on teams, they get praised for being team first kind of guys. Sam is doing the opposite. They may not hate him for it, but I figure some would get rubbed the wrong way. Especially the guys he plays with, since he is essentially saying that he wants to play with better guys than them. A true teammate would never make a lesser player feel inferior.

[Enoch Root]

I get that the lines haven't been working so far, but I can't believe some people want to move Backlund up to the 2nd line. He has been pretty terrible in the first 10 games and should not be rewarded for it.

I still believe the lineup is much deeper with Lindholm at C. It isn't the makeup of the lines that is failing, it is the style of game they are playing, and the lack of emotion.

Juggling the lines doesn't change either of those things.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by Red

It's not about him liking one guy over another etc It's about him making it public via the trade request.

Thinking that a player is a bad fit for you is one thing. Telling a TSN reporter the same is a whole other thing.

Translate this to regular Joe life. It's thinking your co-worker sucks versus telling your boss that your co-worker sucks in front of the rest of the team.

Thats the thing, nobody is saying anyone else sucks. This whole thing is based off Bennett wanting more opportunity. It's subjective what that "opportunity" is. Could it mean playing with "better" players? Could it mean playing more minutes? More PP, more PK? If I'm playing with Ritchie and Rinaldo on the "4th line" but leading the team in icetime, that could be seen as getting opportunity.

[SuperMatt18]

It's tough to play Mangiapane in the top 6 because if you want Backlund to play against other teams top 6 he can't do that with Bennett and Lucic as his wingers.

The situation has been the same all season - this team has 7 top 9 forwards to fill the 9 spots. So two of the spots need to be filled by the other guys.

IMO in the top 6 we have 3 pairs of forwards and we should stick to that.

Tkachuk - Lindholm
Gaudreau -Monahan
Mangiapane - Backlund

Then you need to fill out the top 9 around that. If I'm setting up the lineup for tomorrow night I'd have it set up as:

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Bennett: He was a healthy scratch last game, give him top 6 linemates to see if he can do something with a chip on his shoulder.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Dube: Dube is the best fit for this line. They need somebody with speed who can push back d-men, and win pucks in the corners.

Mangiapane - Backlund - Leivo: They haven't looked bad together, Leivo hasn't been great but he does slowly seem to be getting better every game.

Lucic - Gawdin - Nordstrom: 4th line really takes a hit if Ryan is hurt, play this line minimal minutes and really ride the top 9.

or the alternative option that is even easier is to just go back to the top 9 from last years playoffs.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Lucic - Bennett - Dube

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Red

You see, it's tough for us to tell what these guys think. We are not there. But if this was in my professional life where a team member would bolt the team because I am holding him back, I would not be sending him a christmas card anymore.

These guys are all about the team. Take one for the team etc....Sam is saying nope, I am leaving.

We hear it all the time. Especially when vets play smaller roles on teams, they get praised for being team first kind of guys. Sam is doing the opposite. They may not hate him for it, but I figure some would get rubbed the wrong way.

Bennett's agent said maybe a change of scenery would be good for everybody. Sam didn't say what you are suggesting. There is no evidence that he has quit on the team.

You are putting words in his mouth, then assessing how you think the team is reacting to those words.