[PGT] Flames lose 4-1 to Winnipeg; lose Ryan to injury

[Jeff Lebowski]

Consistent Reliable players with good to great output for their role:
Markstrom
Tanev
Johnny
Monny
Dube
Hanifin
Nordstrom

Uneven play (excellent and really bad)
Tkachuk
Lindholm
Nesterov
Andersson
Lucic
Mangiapane
Bennett

Improving with reps
Lievo
Rittich
Valimaki

So far not good at all from expected level
Gio
Backlund
Ryan (maybe too harsh)
Simon (tough circumstances - new and in and out but he has to do something)

Work ethic/compete has been totally uneven across the board. Coaches have not been hard enough on player nor have they been tactical enough with deployment. Too much blender and not enough reduction of ice time or shifting of special teams personnel.

I'm probably being too harsh overall but it's just frustrating to watch an excellent team flounder. It is early but other teams are doing well and have same circumstances. This team is just under performing.

[dammage79]

Seems to me the sliding tile puzzle that is this edition of the Calgary Flames has a pretty complete picture in regards to goaltending and defense. Aside from the early struggles of gio I think we are all pretty happy with the defense corps and goaltending.

What the problem is is a massive gapping hole in the forward picture. I'm wondering if the cost/benefit of putting Lindholm at center is a net negative for the balance of the forward grouping. It's good for Lindholm, he is doing perfectly well there and capable, but it's putting other players in a weakened position down the line up. And putting far inferior players into higher positions than needed.

Putting Lindholm back on RW with the Johnny and Monny puts Tkachuk and Backlund back together with Mangi. That was successful.

Gives Bennett and Dube a chance at 3rd line success together and puts the spare parts where they should be on the filler spots outside of the top 6 fw group.

[FlameyMcFlameFace]

Let’s trade with that KHL team Bob Harley is coaching. Straight 1 for 1. Ward for Hartley

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by FlameyMcFlameFace

Let’s trade with that KHL team Bob Harley is coaching. Straight 1 for 1. Ward for Hartley

I don't understand the infatuation with the Flames old coaches.



Is it familiarity or is it pining for a past that didn't actually exist the way you remember.

[CroFlames]

Darryl comes in, hires Iggy as PP coach, win Cup, circle is complete.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I don't understand the infatuation with the Flames old coaches.

Is it familiarity or is it pining for a past that didn't actually exist the way you remember.

For all their faults, the hardass coaches were good at doing the things that the Ward/GG types aren't - things like galvanizing your team, making proper in-game adjustments, having a true meritocracy through ice-time.

Yes, they sucked in a whole lot of other aspects, but this what people like to remember.

[AC]

Really feels like the team needs some major lineup surgery.

Johnny and Monahan need a RW to play with, and Tkachuk/Lindholm have been bad lately.

If Dube, Leivo, Simon, and Mangi aren't the answer then I'd put Lindholm back on that line and try Tkachuk/Backlund again to see if it helps those 2.

What we have clearly isn't working. Even when we win its off the backs of 2 players at a time it feels like.

[Aarongavey]

Almost 20 percent into the season and the PPG pace for our forwards who have a point (Simon and Nordstrom have no points in 14 combined games) is as follows over a regular 82 game season

Nordstrom 0 goals, 0 assists, 0 points
Simon 0 goals, 0 assists, 0 points
Leivo - 0 goals, 8 assists - 8 points
Ryan - 0 goals, 8 assists - 8 points
Bennett - 0 goals, 9 assists - 9 points
Mangiapane - 16 goals, 8 assists - 24 points
Lucic - 16 goals, 8 assists - 24 points
Backlund - 16 goals, 16 assists for 32 points
Dube - 12 goals, 23 assists for 35 points

Overall our bottom nine forwards (out of the 13 who have played a game) have 7 goals and 9 assists in 80 games played this season. That averages out to roughly 57 goals and 82 assists for the bottom 8 forwards in the lineup over an 82 game season. This is just a poorly constructed team

For reference, in 2013/2014 our combined scoring for all the forwards outside our top 4 point producing forwards was 87 goals and 132 assists over 82 games. It seems like this year's team will be unlikely to be as productive amongst the forwards not in their top 4 as the team that Brad inherited.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by AC

Really feels like the team needs some major lineup surgery.

Johnny and Monahan need a RW to play with, and Tkachuk/Lindholm have been bad lately.

If Dube, Leivo, Simon, and Mangi aren't the answer then I'd put Lindholm back on that line and try Tkachuk/Backlund again to see if it helps those 2.

What we have clearly isn't working. Even when we win its off the backs of 2 players at a time it feels like.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Lucic - Bennett - Dube

Is how the #%^*ing season should have started. Instead we got Simon and Leivo in the top 9, doing nothing and everything has been a general disaster including having a player request a trade.

If we went with that top 9, then what’s wrong with Simon - Ryan - Leivo on the bottom line? Pretty much nothing.

Ward trying to be clever, and failing. His lineup construction has been a complete disaster.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Seems to me the sliding tile puzzle that is this edition of the Calgary Flames has a pretty complete picture in regards to goaltending and defense. Aside from the early struggles of gio I think we are all pretty happy with the defense corps and goaltending.

What the problem is is a massive gapping hole in the forward picture. I'm wondering if the cost/benefit of putting Lindholm at center is a net negative for the balance of the forward grouping. It's good for Lindholm, he is doing perfectly well there and capable, but it's putting other players in a weakened position down the line up. And putting far inferior players into higher positions than needed.

Putting Lindholm back on RW with the Johnny and Monny puts Tkachuk and Backlund back together with Mangi. That was successful.

Gives Bennett and Dube a chance at 3rd line success together and puts the spare parts where they should be on the filler spots outside of the top 6 fw group.

IMO Lindholm doesn't touch puck enough with Johnny and Monny. I really think Tkachuk is playing through something because he and Lindy were fantastic to start season. He is great with the puck and needs to have it. He needs to play centre. Tkachuk Lindholm was working and will work.

Backlund and Mangiapane need to get consistent. But mostly the entire team needs to stop giving the puck away. Sure fire clean exits that should have them on the attack are instead keeping them defending and hemmed in. Tkachuk on the wall has been bad for that. Defencemen with puck on their sticks in their own zone just hand to the opposition. Can not do that.

The players are not sticking the game plan. They are not transitioning fast enough against 1-2-2 teams and are getting pushed outside - they don't get the middle on consistent basis. The team does not play fast enough. Too much hesitation.

How many incredible saves has Markstrom had to make to bail them out. It could be a lot worse if it wasn't for Markstrom.

Goal scoring will be streaky - but it's team play that has to be consistent and what you can rely on. So far it has not. I think we see good analytics because they are getting shots through but not enough compete for second chances or getting inside to get really dangerous. Good PP has gone cold. Simple execution (like not getting dump in blocked) is not happening. WTF?!

Team play, work ethic and compete are sub standard and it's tough to watch

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by AC

Really feels like the team needs some major lineup surgery.

Johnny and Monahan need a RW to play with, and Tkachuk/Lindholm have been bad lately.

If Dube, Leivo, Simon, and Mangi aren't the answer then I'd put Lindholm back on that line and try Tkachuk/Backlund again to see if it helps those 2.

What we have clearly isn't working. Even when we win its off the backs of 2 players at a time it feels like.

It's because of this horse#### notion the coaching staff has - that we can roll 4 lines against any team in our division. So he wants to 'spread the talent', while failing to recognize little details like so:

We have ONE natural RW in their position. Which means that most of the time, any breakout on that side is eventually on the friggin backhand. Small wonder we can't do any laterals, or quick burst plays. Couple that with the obsession with D to D passes and you have a dog-slow breakout/transition.

Ever notice when we enter the zone with speed & possession on that side of the ice, it's often only because it's a odd man rush? Scouting and adjustments between games are so important in this division and Ward so far has been a disappointment.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

To me he looks a lot like his dad who was kind of a talented jerk that didn't win anything over his career in the NHL as he was the poster boy for captaining teams to first round exits. I don't see anything in his game that has moved the needle for the Flames outside of adding the reputation that the Flames are a dirty team. The bigger a pest he becomes, the worst he plays on the ice and he's not accomplished anything in the playoffs like his dad. We talk about Johnny leaving when his contract is up but really I think this guy will easily bolt to wherever he can make the most money and if it be the Rangers or any US market I just can't see any loyalty here with him. Maybe he should be part of a complete upheaval this roster requires.

I was thinking the same thing. He signed a bridge so there is no guarantee of any long term commitment. And you can’t think the family was the least bit happy when Brady was drafted by Ottawa.

I would be for a blockbuster franchise changing trade but I don’t see a shake up happening in a fractured season.

To me no one is untouchable except for Markstrom.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by AC

Really feels like the team needs some major lineup surgery.

Johnny and Monahan need a RW to play with, and Tkachuk/Lindholm have been bad lately.

If Dube, Leivo, Simon, and Mangi aren't the answer then I'd put Lindholm back on that line and try Tkachuk/Backlund again to see if it helps those 2.

What we have clearly isn't working. Even when we win its off the backs of 2 players at a time it feels like.

Has Dube even been tried on the Monahan line? I saw him there for a second yesterday but it was likely a line change. I just feel like this is an obvious fit, but as far as I can recall it hasn't been done (and I suspect it's because Dube props up other lines).

[Red]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I was thinking the same thing. He signed a bridge so there is no guarantee of any long term commitment. And you can’t think the family was the least bit happy when Brady was drafted by Ottawa.

I would be for a blockbuster franchise changing trade but I don’t see a shake up happening in a fractured season.

To me no one is untouchable except for Markstrom.

Chucky can be very good at times, but he is somewhat limited by his skating. Half the time he looks like a 5 year old trying not to fall. With his family roots and $$$ it's puzzling that they didnt teach him to skate better. I mean honestly, is there a more awkward skater in the NHL? Swinging his stick to gain balance etc?

And I agree about his long term deal here. He may take one because Calgary is a nice enough city and the management is nice. But do we want to sign him to those big $$$? Fair bit of risk as the league gets faster by the day. He is not going to improve his skating at his age, is he?

[Macman]

Jets didn't look like they missed Laine last night. Maybe not the greatest game for the Flames but it's still early and we're 4-5-1. Yeah its a bit concerning in a shortened season but hopefully they can make adjustments and turn things around.

I tuned into overtime last night for the first time in a while and Robert was on, not sure why they still put that guy on the air but whatever I guess.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

Chucky can be very good at times, but he is somewhat limited by his skating. Half the time he looks like a 5 year old trying not to fall. With his family roots and $$$ it's puzzling that they didnt teach him to skate better. I mean honestly, is there a more awkward skater in the NHL? Swinging his stick to gain balance etc?

And I agree about his long term deal here. He may take one because Calgary is a nice enough city and the management is nice. But do we want to sign him to those big $$$? Fair bit of risk as the league gets faster by the day. He is not going to improve his skating at his age, is he?

I noticed last night that he sure carries the puck far in front of him. His blind passes are noticeable. I mean they are going to dangerous areas - if anyone was there. Either he needs to take a look or play with a guy that goes to the slot all the time.

[Red]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I noticed last night that he sure carries the puck far in front of him. His blind passes are noticeable. I mean they are going to dangerous areas - if anyone was there. Either he needs to take a look or play with a guy that goes to the slot all the time.

Look at his hips too. He seems to thrown them out to gain balance, as inexperienced skaters often do. It looks so unnatural and obviously comical beside other NHLers. Maybe there is an injure we dont know about? It would at least explain it. His skating style, if you call that is on a whole other level this year.

[Manhattanboy]

Zary is a slower awkward skater as well. Great..

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Zary is a slower awkward skater as well. Great..

Sample size of Juniors and the 3 pre-season games is pretty small and obviously not against fully NHL opposition but Zary did have several breakaways across those games. Although, you could argue those were due to strong two-way plays rather than pure speed.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by NewFan

How come these players became so slow. Before Lindholm was so fast, now he is above awerage at best. Johnny us same. Monahan, Tkachuk, Backlund, Lucic, Leivo are all very slow. After Hartley no coach is demanding these guys individual skills. Can't shoot, can't skate can't puck handle, but nobody cares.

They didn't become slow. They play a slow style. No one is fast when they are standing still.