[PGT] Flames lose 4-1 to Winnipeg; lose Ryan to injury

[zamler]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Brutal effort on the PP, lack of effort, brutal giveaways, etc. That's not what a coach wants.

You're proving my point for me. The players getting free passes yet again. At some point some basic effort, hustle and smarts shouldn't be too much to ask from your core players. 2 shots on the PP speaks volumes.

I'm not proving your point at all. The coach is sucking the life out of the players his system is awful. We've seen this before and it's happening again. You keep pointing your finger at the players well they are playing a crap system and they can't succeed doing it. What do you want them to do get together and say #### it we're not doing anything the coach says anymore.

Also I'm not giving the players a free pass I've said many times you don't win a championship without a true #1 center and a legit goalie. Now we at least have one of those.

[CroFlames]

Why isn’t Dube in the top line?

[SuperMatt18]

After Ward was asked a question about the players only meeting it got me thinking...

Doesn’t it seem kind of telling that after only 5 games the players felt like they needed a players only meeting?

Like does that sound like a group that has faith in what this coaching staff was preaching when you need to have a meeting without the coaches so soon to the start of the year.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

I miss that 14/15 squad, led by Hartley and a bunch of guys just starting to hit their stride. Johnny Hockey’s rookie year. Emergence of Backlund. Norris Gio (before he got hurt). Monahan breaking through. Hudler racking up the points. 18-year old Sam Bennett. The 79 Train.

The comebacks. Knocking out the Kings. Sending home the Canucks.

Six years later. Here we are.

Really who knew that was going to be the pinnacle for this core? It's somewhat similar on a lesser scale to the 2004 Flames in that they believed they could win and played hard and it led to some playoff success. It was a steady decline after that despite numerous attempts to build on that team just as it's been a steady decline since the 2014/15 season. Today the team is older, slower and going in the wrong direction. As has been said the only real success this club has is with taskmaster coaches.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Since1984

One of these things is not like the others...

Sakic was a LHS

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by zamler

I'm not proving your point at all. The coach is sucking the life out of the players his system is awful. We've seen this before and it's happening again. You keep pointing your finger at the players well they are playing a crap system and they can't succeed doing it. What do you want them to do get together and say #### it we're not doing anything the coach says anymore.

Also I'm not giving the players a free pass I've said many times you don't win a championship without a true #1 center and a legit goalie. Now we at least have one of those.

That's the thing. Even if you think this is all on the players is there anyone here that actually thinks this team is playing the type of system that's going to lead to success? Really? Are fans really happy with the play 5 on 5 and the player deployment at key times in games? Be honest with yourselves. This is a bad situation here as the players aren't playing well and they also aren't being put in a situation that's going to lead to success.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

I miss that 14/15 squad, led by Hartley and a bunch of guys just starting to hit their stride. Johnny Hockey’s rookie year. Emergence of Backlund. Norris Gio (before he got hurt). Monahan breaking through. Hudler racking up the points. 18-year old Sam Bennett. The 79 Train.

The comebacks. Knocking out the Kings. Sending home the Canucks.

Six years later. Here we are.

Speedy Paul Byron!

The stuff we have seen since then. The ‘always earned, never given’ mentality is long gone. It’s ‘throw it at the wall, let’s see what sticks’, a good example being for who may work with 13 and 23. Chris Stewart, friends like Buddy Robinson or Leivo, and hey, why not Simon?

But giving, say, Bennett a look for a steady block of 8-10 games? Could his heavy game create space for soft stars that can’t elevate for the playoffs? Pfft. Not worth a look. Not on your life! Haha

It’s really pretty silly. Imagine being on the outside wanting to make fun of the Flames. They make it pretty easy

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by driveway

As constituted, if this team plays to its full and complete potential we're out in the 2nd round of the playoffs. That's our ceiling.

I am on team blow it up.
Keep: Markstrom, Valimaki, Andersson, Lindholm
Try to keep: Mangiapane, Dube, Hanifin

Keep: Markstrom, Hanifin, Andersson, Valimaki, Tanev, Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Dube, Mangiapane
Try to keep: Nesterov

The team just isn’t as deep upfront as we were led to believe. I’ve been saying for years we need more offence upfront and a legit #1.

We figured out the goalie issue and we have a solid foundation on defence but our forward depth is no good.

I’m not happy with the coaching decisions either but when you have a struggling Backlund and a 4th liner in Lucic making over $11.5m you are going to have some issues.

I love him but when you also have Ryan as your 4th line center making $3.1m you pretty much have $15m of salary struggling as a 3rd line center and/or on the 4th line.

It’s a killer as we should have that money at the top of the roster and have cheap players like Dube and Mangiapane sprinkled in to provide us with more depth.

I like aspects of Backlund, Lucic, Ryan and Leivo’s games but in general I only really like 6 forwards on this team when everything is considered (age, cap hit, effectiveness in contributing to wins).

Roster construction is the real problem here.

I think the team needs to rid itself of Lucic somehow (not sure how) trade Bennett in a package to acquire another RS winger that is worthy of a protection spot and let Backlund go to Seattle or trade him.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Speedy Paul Byron!

The stuff we have seen since then. The ‘always earned, never given’ mentality is long gone. It’s ‘throw it at the wall, let’s see what sticks’

Nah, it's

"Always given to the same guys, Never Allowed to be Earned"

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I'm puzzled by a recommendation to fire BT but give the job to Conroy.
Generally fans seem upset with the lack of experienced coaches but we are willing to hand the keys to the franchise to a inexperienced GM?
Moreover if you don't like the direction the team has been going in - Conroy is part of that. He's part of the front office team that has built the current team and made the recommendations to do that. We don't know to what extent he's been part of the decisions - but in his role he IS part of it.

The buck stop at BT, but what evidence is there that Conroy would be better?

If you are going to fire BT - bring in someone with a track record no?

Yeah, that's fair. I assume the shots are being called by Treliving and Maloney. Conroy may be in on every decision or maybe his voice isn't heard.. we don't know.

I am willing to try out someone with a track record but realistically, why not give a chance to the guy who iis being groomed for the role for like a decade. If someone better is out there, I am all in. Not really sure what options are out there with a track record.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Keep: Markstrom, Hanifin, Andersson, Valimaki, Tanev, Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Dube, Mangiapane
Try to keep: Nesterov

The team just isn’t as deep upfront as we were led to believe. I’ve been saying for years we need more offence upfront and a legit #1.

We figured out the goalie issue and we have a solid foundation on defence but our forward depth is no good.

I’m not happy with the coaching decisions either but when you have a struggling Backlund and a 4th liner in Lucic making over $11.5m you are going to have some issues.

I love him but when you also have Ryan as your 4th line center making $3.1m you pretty much have $15m of salary struggling as a 3rd line center and/or on the 4th line.

It’s a killer as we should have that money at the top of the roster and have cheap players like Dube and Mangiapane sprinkled in to provide us with more depth.

I like aspects of Backlund, Lucic, Ryan and Leivo’s games but in general I only really like 6 forwards on this team when everything is considered (age, cap hit, effectiveness in contributing to wins).

Roster construction is the real problem here.

I think the team needs to rid itself of Lucic somehow (not sure how) trade Bennett in a package to acquire another RS winger that is worthy of a protection spot and let Backlund go to Seattle or trade him.

I see another pretty obvious conversation to have...

The GM has, as of when the season started, built the team. The coach has to figure out how to get the most out of what he has been given.

You have a top three lines that have worked very recently for sustained periods of time

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Lucic - Bennett - Dube


But no! We are smarter than that!

Let’s bring the 3 bottom line / bubble players into the mix and randomize everything!

It is really absurd. A short 56 game season isn’t the time to experiment with everything. 10 games in, things should be settled, not less stable than ever

God damn smartest guys in the room

[Chonger]

Backlund 5.25m 4th liner
Gio 6.5m 3rd pairing
Tkachuk 9m qualifying offer
Lucic over 5m for taxi squad lvl
Ryan 3.25m for taxi squad lvl

But wont spend on a coach?

I could go on listing half the team and my $ figures aren't exact but at this point i care less than they do. Time to blow it up top to bottom. Retain 50% on all and get the best you can. Rebuild didnt work, forced it too early. Try again and hopefully learn from the mistakes made.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Chonger

Backlund 5.25m 4th liner
Gio 6.5m 3rd pairing
Tkachuk 9m qualifying offer
Lucic over 5m for taxi squad lvl
Ryan 3.25m for taxi squad lvl

But wont spend on a coach?

I could go on listing half the team and my $ figures aren't exact but at this point i care less than they do. Time to blow it up top to bottom. Retain 50% on all and get the best you can. Rebuild didnt work, forced it too early. Try again and hopefully learn from the mistakes made.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Hell, you could just look at the amount they are paying for players to sit on the taxi squad and question why they couldn't have combined some of that money with Ward's current salary to find somebody with a track record of success.

[Harry Lime]

I've been waiting almost two years for Monahan and Gaudreau to play on different lines. They will both produce away from each other, and can play together on the powerplay. Also, Dube was the best forward by far, tonight.

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Dube
Tkachuk - Monahan - Mangiapane

Those are the top six players on the team. No Simons. No Leivos.

[Dajazz]

This roster has it warts for sure, as all do, but it’s not bad.

Coaching however. My god. I’ve said it since day one and I’ve only escalated since, this guy is not the real deal. The Dallas series SHOULD have opened Treliving’s eyes, but he doubled down.

We’re passing start of season territory. Every point matters.

This team needs to speed up, it needs a new coach.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I would’ve preferred if we won tonight.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I would’ve preferred if we won tonight.

Agreed

[1qqaaz]

If Gallant, Boudreau, and Sutter have all just been sitting around for a year doing nothing, how much money would they really expect?
They don't really have a ton of leverage.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I would’ve preferred if we won tonight.

That would have been more ideal for sure.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

If Gallant, Boudreau, and Laviolette have all just been sitting around for a year doing nothing, how much money would they really expect?
They don't really have a ton of leverage.

uh