[PGT] Flames lose 4-1 to Winnipeg; lose Ryan to injury

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Since1984

One of these things is not like the others...

Not Canadian

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

Hope will always be more fun than despair.

You’re not wrong. I just don’t know how you have hope.

I had it from about 2003-2009, and it’s been slowly fading since.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Pretty special circumstances.

What other teams have disgruntled top 3 picks who have asked for a trade?

The poster said teams can't make trades with core players this year. I pointed out they already have. It can happen.

[Patek23]

Can any advanced stats guys confirm for me how "fresh legs" Simon did this game. All I can find is on the score app for shots for/against he was a team low -7. Good thing we got him as our 1st line winger!

[zamler]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Agreed, although my original point is that the coach is taking a disproportionate amount of blame compared to the top players on this team, which aren't getting called out nearly as much as they should.

Looks to me like the team is playing the system the coach wants.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by DomeFoam

Sometimes I'll think upon Hartley's approach of managing an 82 game season into 7 game segments, which I thought really manifested into solving consistency issues. Trying to win at least 4 games every series.

Even if they didn't win a series, going 3-4 one series wouldn't determine their season and it gave them more determination to win the next one, building a solid foundation for a winning culture. They had something to reach for with each game and kept them in a playoff mode before the playoffs had even started.

People like to harp on that coach, but I think he was pretty underrated for the roster in front of him at the time.

Spoiler!

I believe it was D. Sutter who initially adopted that
7 game segment approach. Very good point about it aiding consistency. I recall somewhere Sutter also talking about how he got players motivated shift by shift by giving them in game tasks.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

The poster said teams can't make trades with core players this year. I pointed out they already have. It can happen.

Ah. Technically correct.

Not relevant for the situation. But technically correct. The best kind of correct

[Igottago]

From a motivation perspective, this core group seems like its always needed a coach with a taskmaster's edge and a strong presence behind the bench. Hartley and the first season of Peters show evidence of that. So either Treliving needed to make changes to the core to fit this coach, or he needed to get another war general behind the bench for the players. It's looking like he did neither.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Can any advanced stats guys confirm for me how "fresh legs" Simon did this game. All I can find is on the score app for shots for/against he was a team low -7. Good thing we got him as our 1st line winger!

Taught Sam Bennett a lesson

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Since1984

One of these things is not like the others...

Dont tell Iggy.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by zamler

Looks to me like the team is playing the system the coach wants.

Well the system is not working. Can the coach design a system that suit this roster's strength? This roster cannot play the dump and chase game, not big enough.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by zamler

Looks to me like the team is playing the system the coach wants.

Brutal effort on the PP, lack of effort, brutal giveaways, etc. That's not what a coach wants.

You're proving my point for me. The players getting free passes yet again. At some point some basic effort, hustle and smarts shouldn't be too much to ask from your core players. 2 shots on the PP speaks volumes.

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Brutal effort on the PP, lack of effort, brutal giveaways, etc. That's not what a coach wants.

You're proving my point for me. The players getting free passes yet again. At some point some basic effort, hustle and smarts shouldn't be too much to ask from your core players. 2 shots on the PP speaks volumes.

I think Ward is probably a really smart hockey guy. But being a coach also means managing players and personalities. This core has quit on a couple coaches. In response rather then go out and change said core we decided to work with them and they promoted a players style of coach. We are paying for the sins of past and not addressing the root of the problem earlier. This team accepts mediocre.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Igottago

From a motivation perspective, this core group seems like its always needed a coach with a taskmaster's edge and a strong presence behind the bench. Hartley and the first season of Peters show evidence of that. So either Treliving needed to make changes to the core to fit this coach, or he needed to get another war general behind the bench for the players. It's looking like he did neither.

Thing is, they were moving the puck very well in the first few games

I remember an early season PP - Tkachuk screening the goalie, stepping quickly to the side, Lindholm immediately hitting him with a pass that was tic tac toed out to Monahan in the slot, and quickly popped in. Three players on their toes.

Also Lindholm with the fake shot and a hard cross seam pass to Johnny

That was when Lindholm was the second point man when they rotated

The PP lately has been pretty perimeter based. Predictable and ineffective

The coaches need to really keep them equipped with ideas.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Well the system is not working. Can the coach design a system that suit this roster's strength? .

Therein lies the problem.

The only coach who did that was fired in April 2016, with the GM citing systems as the primary reason.

This was a coach whose roster included such possession stalwarts as Kris Russell, Deryk Engelland, Dennis Wideman, and Jyrki Jokipakka and a much younger roster still learning to play at the NHL level, after a season where possession numbers had still gone upwards from the previous season.

He also had the worst goaltending in the NHL. There's a game at Buffalo by Hiller that year that defines that season in a nutshell, I wonder if the "highlights" are still on NHL.com.

Sadly that was the last remotely competent coach we had - and I'm not even saying he was a great one.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by DomeFoam

Sometimes I'll think upon Hartley's approach of managing an 82 game season into 7 game segments, which I thought really manifested into solving consistency issues. Trying to win at least 4 games every series.

Even if they didn't win a series, going 3-4 one series wouldn't determine their season and it gave them more determination to win the next one, building a solid foundation for a winning culture. They had something to reach for with each game and kept them in a playoff mode before the playoffs had even started.

People like to harp on that coach, but I think he was pretty underrated for the roster in front of him at the time.

Spoiler!

I miss that 14/15 squad, led by Hartley and a bunch of guys just starting to hit their stride. Johnny Hockey’s rookie year. Emergence of Backlund. Norris Gio (before he got hurt). Monahan breaking through. Hudler racking up the points. 18-year old Sam Bennett. The 79 Train.

The comebacks. Knocking out the Kings. Sending home the Canucks.

Six years later. Here we are.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I believe it was D. Sutter who initially adopted that 7 game segment approach. Very good point about it aiding consistency. I recall somewhere Sutter also talking about how he got players motivated shift by shift by giving them in game tasks.

Sutter did 10-game segments. The general goal was to get 12 points from each 10 game segment.

As for this year, put me in the we need better coaching camp. The value of quality coaching is often underestimated and overlooked by fans. Whatever Ward is doing so far, it's not working. Time for him to shake things up, or, if he can't or won't, it's time for a high profile coach to be brought in.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

#### you. The Kraken are no good.

I'll ride or die a Flames fan.

I use to be like you ..20years ago. I still haven't missed a single game since 2007 but the pandemic showed me sports are not that important anymore coupled with a annually meh Flames and playing the same teams repeatedly. Thought all canadian match ups every night would be fun but the novelty has worn of quick.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by keenan87

100% Agreed. Astonishing they made this coaching hire and kept the core.

I want Conroy to takeover as GM. He has been around for a while now. Yzerman and Sakic have done well.. maybe Conroy can build a proper team.

I'm puzzled by a recommendation to fire BT but give the job to Conroy.
Generally fans seem upset with the lack of experienced coaches but we are willing to hand the keys to the franchise to a inexperienced GM?
Moreover if you don't like the direction the team has been going in - Conroy is part of that. He's part of the front office team that has built the current team and made the recommendations to do that. We don't know to what extent he's been part of the decisions - but in his role he IS part of it.

The buck stop at BT, but what evidence is there that Conroy would be better?

If you are going to fire BT - bring in someone with a track record no?

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Brutal effort on the PP, lack of effort, brutal giveaways, etc. That's not what a coach wants.

You're proving my point for me. The players getting free passes yet again. At some point some basic effort, hustle and smarts shouldn't be too much to ask from your core players. 2 shots on the PP speaks volumes.

I don't think the players are getting free passes. Most people have been advocating for a change to the core for a long while. The weaknesses with this them are just well known at this point. But that's the team that keeps coming back.